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mr.sshh vs. MS/Goldfish/Barclaycard - CCA and charges

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:) Hi everybody, back in action after a period of re -energising!

 

Here's where I'm at with Barclaycard !

 

1.Bankcharges case stayed pending result of OFT case- now reading up for best course of action and to see how best to ammend POC's/removal of stay etc.

 

2. CCA request to Barclaycard sent in Feb 2009 -standard responses received from Barclaycard.

 

3. Sent Vint's excellent "account in serious dispute " letter end of Nov 2009.

4.Stopped making (payment plan) payments to Barclaycard. Wrote to FOS requesting their intervention yesterday.

 

Anybody else out there at a similar or more advanced stage with Morgan Stanley/Goldfish/Barclaycard?

Any current thoughts on the CPR route?

The phone calls from Barclaycard have started in earnest now but thankfully are being fielded/logged by my beloved truecall device!

 

Any help or advice most gratefully received as I am feel ever so slightly rusty!

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Hi Mr Sshh,

 

Have you read other BC/Morgan Stanley/Goldfish threads here. There are plenty if you look through the BC forum.

 

The FOS route is having success in getting sight of agreements, although it is slow.

 

The CPR 31.16 strategy is more proactive but is more risky re costs.

 

See how it goes with the FOS - best route in my opinion.

 

Have you started a thread in the Barclays forum re bank charges.

 

:)


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Hi slick,thanks for the reply - my claim is of course credit card charges for Barclaycard and just got lumped in with the stayed cases pending the OFT test case for normal bank charges.... told you I was rusty Presumably I now just apply for a removal of stay and proceed as I would have done last year- Any current updates relating to credit card charges procedure that I should know about?- I am in the fortunate position of all previous claims being settled without going to court so I want to make sure I get it right should this go further.

 

Anyway, regarding my Barclaycard CCA campaign, I have sent a second letter to the FOS containing a more comprehensive photocopied account of all the correspondence between Barclaycard and myself.I have also notified Barclaycard again that I have asked FOS to intervene on my behalf. Any idea how long FOS normally take for an initial reply?

 

all help, experience and wisdom appreciated :)

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Can you confirm about the complaint to the FOS. Are you asking them to intervene to help you get sight of your credit agreement from BC.

 

:)


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Yes that's correct Slick, I realised that I had not submitted ALL of the stuff that Barclaycard had sent me in reply to my original Feb 2009 CCA request letter. Just wanted to make sure that FOS have comprehensive copies of everything I sent Barclaycard and vice versa. I will feel happier when I have an FOS ref no. for my complaint. Nothing from Mercers yet but plenty of calls from B/card on my truecall device.

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Ok, so you're trying to get sight of the BC credit agreement and you're hoping FOS will intervene and get BC to produce whatever agreement they have.

 

What about penalty charges and mis-sold PPI with BC. Have you got all the statements to quantify any such claim.


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Hi Sllick, yes I have all my statements MS/Goldfish/Barclaycard from the opening of the original account.

I never took out any PPI on this account and I currently have a claim active for charges -(550 pounds although this will be more now with the interest ) which has been stayed since July 2008 .I phoned the court a few days back and they said the stay is still applied and likely to be so for several weeks into the new year- this claim is for credit card charges and should never have been stayed for the reasons given on the court order- ie. pending the result of the OFT" bank' charges test case ...however it was and I'm now wondering what my best immediate course of action is- this active claim lends more weight to the status of my account being "in dispute " presumably....any thoughts?:)

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After reading your 1st post, I thought it was your bank charges case that was Stayed. But post #7 above makes it sound like your CCard claim has been Stayed since July 2008.

 

Because this is a credit card case, which has nothing to do with the OFT Test Case, it should not have been Stayed originally, nor should it remain so.

 

So can you please confirm, is the CCard claim Stayed or not.

 

It may help if you avoid discussing the bank charges case on this thread to avoid confusion. :)


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Hi Slick, my apologies, I've been working away from home for a while and just returned! Do hope you had a Happy Xmas/New year :)

 

Firstly, yes it was a Credit Card case that was stayed (and remains so) -I will open a separate new thread regarding this.

 

Secondly, I have received response from the FOS supplying me with case reference numbers for my CCA request complaints. ( I have a LloydsTSB case running concurrently with the Barclaycard case).

 

At the moment I don't know which ref. no. relates to which case- just had standard letters to say "your correspondence has been received safely". I spoke to someone from FOS today and he says that it will be at least two weeks before any more information becomes available.

 

In the meantime I have received my first " Default" letter from Mercers giving me until January 24th to bring up to date the missed payments on my account.

 

The letter states that if the monies are not received by then

a) a "Formal Demand" for the whole balance will be issued.

b) details of my account will be registered with the credit reference agencies.

 

Mercers also seem very keen for me to call them immediately for "help"! Perhaps they can "help" by getting someone to show me my original signed CCA.

As ever Slick , all advice as to best course of action moving forward, is most gratefully received, many thanks :)

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Firstly dealing with the Stayed court claim for refund of charges from BC, you should write to the court manager politely pointing out that the case has been Stayed incorrectly.

 

Accordingly, as this case has nothing to do with the OFT bank charges test case, would the court please lift the Stay and let the case proceed without further delay. Given that the Stay was applied incorrectly, you hope that the court will not insist on a formal N244 Application and fee, which will cause you to incur court fees unfairly.

 

Secondly, regarding the FOS, wait for them to contact you further so you know which card they are dealing with.

 

Write to Mercers and confirm that the a/c is in dispute regarding bank charges and BC's failure to supply a credit agreement. Accordingly, Mercers have no right to take ANY collection activity.

 

They should not contact you further nor should they seek to collect or issue Default Notices, etc.


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Thanks Slick, I've got the correct FOS ref no. now so will write to Mercers today. Also on way to court to sort out removal of stay.Really hoping not to have to issue N244. I tried to protest at the time that this was a credit card issue and nothing to do with the OFT test case but they were having none of it, citing the need to clear their backlog. Ah well , a years worth of interest has accrued plus further charges.

 

Do you think the recent Manchester test cases will have a bearing on FOS getting Barclaycard to produce my original CCA ?

 

thanks again for your good work :)

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I would be very surprised if the banks did NOT use the Manchester rulings to their advantage re producing credit agreements.

 

But we have yet to see how they will respond, or whether the FOS will continue to get the banks to produce the agreements, as has been the case recently.

 

Re the delay caused by the Stay, you wouldn't earn 8% interest anywhere else. ;)


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Ok, so against all expectations, Barclaycard have responded very quickly to the intervention of the FOS with a letter and "copy of my CCA" for the original Morgan Stanley account.

 

However, it looks to be a badly executed cut-up job. There is a blatant page wide, horizontal cut-line two inches above the signature box. Someone has (ineptly and by hand) pasted the top two thirds of one paper document over the bottom third of another.

 

http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab285/trenttsnake/Morg%20Stan%20CCA/Morg_Stan_CCA_1_cens1.jpg[/img]

 

http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab285/trenttsnake/Morg%20Stan%20CCA/Morg_Stan_CCA_2_cens2.jpg[/img]

 

http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab285/trenttsnake/Morg%20Stan%20CCA/Barclaycard_letter_1_cens.jpg[/img]

 

http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab285/trenttsnake/Morg%20Stan%20CCA/Barclaycard_letter_2_cens.jpg[/img]

 

 

The signature and date on the bottom third are correct and in my handwriting.

The personal details printed on the left hand side of the top two thirds are also correct.

But they have been taken from two different sources.

 

What's going on here? My best guess is that they've taken the signature from an application form and the personal details from a conformation form and cobbled the two together in the hope of presenting the image of a convincing and enforceable CCA.

 

Does anybody out there have a genuine 2004 Morgan Stanley "application" form or a "conformation" form, or even both, to make a comparison with the above?

Has any body received a similar cut-up job?

Does what they've sent me approach being enforceable in court?

 

I would be most grateful for the collective wisdom of all you Barclaycard veterans!

thanks in anticipation :)

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hi something just does not look right with that form must admit never seen confirmation form I would of thought it would look different note the msdw box signed no date and box with your sig just looks odd

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That is the same as they have sent me, confirmation form.

The terms and conditions are bthe same except i don't have the summary box.

What year is yours please?

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To comply with section 78 they have to send the original T&C as well as the current ones. did they send the originals or are relying on the second image as them them?

 

I like the part on them which says 'the information in this table summarises key product features and is not intended to replace any terms and conditions'

 

Further there are lots of references to different T&C on the agreement to which you should have...


Capitalism is the legitimate racket

of the ruling class.

Al Capone

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Hi Guys, thanks for the replies...

 

main man - they had previously sent two a3 pages of Morgan Stanley conditions in answer to previous requests for cca (i.e. before I got the FOS involved). However, nothing to tell me what era they came from, so I don't know if they are relevant to my account or not.

 

sarnie- just checked out your confirmation form on post 4 of your Barclaycard thread - yours has been cut in almost exactly the same place as mine !

 

Anyone out there know why this has been done ?

and any more wisdom on the enforceability of this cca is deeply welcome....

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I just wish someone could post what an enforceable one looks like!

Surely there has to be an organisation that creates the said document?

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Hi Sarnie,

 

Have you read through the thread at Link No5 in my signature.

 

Steven4064's guide to credit agreements. :)

  • Haha 1

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