Need advice regarding private landlord

[Gunga]

Also, I've been trying to work things out, based on the official council website which tells us all the payments we've been made and vs a document from the agent.

 

 

Agent claims from 29/10/07 to 12/04/09 we paid a total of £4,744.65.

 

The total paid in Housing benefit from 29/10/09 to 19/04/09 = £4,291.38

 

Partners mum paid around 11 payments of £120 (will find out exact amount when paperwork arrives) = £1,320

 

Total = £5,611.38

 

The amount of rent due as per the above document is £6,069.96

 

That makes a shortfall of £458.58 and not £1,325.31 as the agent claims.

 

Now i know we were paying extra over several months to cover shortfalls in the housing benefit, however we have no proof of this as we don't have receipts anymore, so i guess that's lost money.

[bedlington83]

Your comments are quite offensive 'once again you get it badly wrong'. There is no part of this I have got wrong at all.

The arrears for starters. Then your claiming that the arrears have been repaid (although you were previously claiming that they were less than £100) with no justification whatsoever; the OP hasn't even told us what the arrears are.

 

My last piece of advise to the OP is just see a solicitor before this idiot ties you up in knots with nonsense.

Actually Jimmy it isn't nonsense, unlike the "landlord can only evict you if it's his home and he wants it back" that you were offering as advice on another thread

[bedlington83]

Gunga, Thanks for posting the Agent's HB analysis. At least it confirms one thing; that the rent is £350 a month payable as £323.76 every four weeks

 

The total paid in Housing benefit from 29/10/09 to 19/04/09, is that from the council website? If so, how much was paid between 19/04/09 and now?

 

Is the paperwork that you're waiting for some sort of evidence that your partner's mum paid the £120 for a while? When you get it I'll need to know how much she paid in total

 

If that landlord is correct with his figures and the arrears were £710.33 at 08/06/09, we have paid £600 on the arrears, as well as all our rent since we made the agreement on 11/06/09.

Let's hope he is correct

 

One thing puzzles me though - why did your partner sign a document in which they admitted owing £1,752.80 if you didn't owe it?

[Gunga]

Gunga, Thanks for posting the Agent's HB analysis. At least it confirms one thing; that the rent is £350 a month payable as £323.76 every four weeks

 

The total paid in Housing benefit from 29/10/09 to 19/04/09, is that from the council website? If so, how much was paid between 19/04/09 and now?

 

Yes, that's from the council website.

 

From 20/04/09 & 13/12/09 the council have paid £2,674.42

 

Is the paperwork that you're waiting for some sort of evidence that your partner's mum paid the £120 for a while? When you get it I'll need to know how much she paid in total

 

Yes, the paperwork will be bank statements i believe.

 

One thing puzzles me though - why did your partner sign a document in which they admitted owing £1,752.80 if you didn't owe it?

 

Because, we was aware we were behind, but didn't know the exact amount, my partner was put on the spot to sign to the agreement to avoid being evicted.

 

According to the agent, the landlord then came in to their office angry that they had not discussed the agreement with him, and he wanted his cash. He threatened to leave the agent.

 

I think he may have visited the agent, angry about not receiving his rent from us & angry at the agents apparent lack of doing anything about it unaware that the agent has received the money from us.

 

Can someone please answer this question.

 

Would we normally receive an eviction notice from the agent or the landlord? I'm thinking the landlord has taken matters into his own hands after getting nowhere with the agent. The agent said they knew nothing of the eviction when we first got in touch with them, just before posting here.

[NewSAHD]

One thing puzzles me though - why did your partner sign a document in which they admitted owing £1,752.80 if you didn't owe it?

 

I'd suspect that there were arrears, solicitors were involved, a promissory was offered (personally, I'd never sign one, but have used them against tenants), and various legal costs/admin fees were included within the "total sum owed" as there was no prospect at that stage of the costs/fees being paid as a lump sum by the tenant. Be happy to be proven wrong on this though.

 

Gunga, did your partner keep any of the other paperwork/arrears chasers received when the arrears arose?

Edited December 14, 2009 by NewSAHD
No edit - just a crossed post

[Gunga]

I'd suspect that there were arrears, solicitors were involved, a promissory was offered (personally, I'd never sign one, but have used them against tenants), and various legal costs/admin fees were included within the "total sum owed" as there was no prospect at that stage of the costs/fees being paid as a lump sum by the tenant. Be happy to be proven wrong on this though.

 

Gunga, did your partner keep any of the other paperwork/arrears chasers received when the arrears arose?

 

We just received a letter from the agent:

 

Along with this:

 

 

And chased it up, no solicitor or anything else was involved, no charges were added as far as we're aware.

[bedlington83]

Because, we was aware we were behind, but didn't know the exact amount, my partner was put on the spot to sign to the agreement to avoid being evicted.

With the benefit of hindsight its a pity you didn't come here at the time. Having said that I know its very difficult to make a stand when you're unsure of your rights and you're being dictated to by someone that you believe knows what they're talking about. The agent knew this and basically bullied your partner

 

Would we normally receive an eviction notice from the agent or the landlord? I'm thinking the landlord has taken matters into his own hands after getting nowhere with the agent. The agent said they knew nothing of the eviction when we first got in touch with them, just before posting here.

Technically its the landlord that evicts you. However the agent mey be able to do it on the landlord's behalf (although I'm not 100% sure about that)

 

For the period 29/10/07 - today, you should have paid a total of £9100 in rent. The housing benefit has paid £6965.80 (£4921.38 + £2674.42). This leaves a shortfall of £2134.20. However, you have already paid £600 off the arrears so that makes it £1534.20. All we need to know now are a) how much your partner's mum paid and b) the total of any payments you've made in addition to the housing benefit and we can work out the true position. (I'm assuming here that all the housing benefit that you got paid went towards the rent. Can you confirm that this is the case?)

[Gunga]

With the benefit of hindsight its a pity you didn't come here at the time. Having said that I know its very difficult to make a stand when you're unsure of your rights and you're being dictated to by someone that you believe knows what they're talking about. The agent knew this and basically bullied your partner

 

Yeah, that's it. We'd have still gone along with it if we hadn't have seen the landlords statement saying he's not received payments when we know we've been making them. Live & learn though, won't be making this mistake ever again.

 

 

Technically its the landlord that evicts you. However the agent mey be able to do it on the landlord's behalf (although I'm not 100% sure about that)

 

For the period 29/10/07 - today, you should have paid a total of £9100 in rent. The housing benefit has paid £6965.80 (£4921.38 + £2674.42). This leaves a shortfall of £2134.20. However, you have already paid £600 off the arrears so that makes it £1534.20. All we need to know now are a) how much your partner's mum paid and b) the total of any payments you've made in addition to the housing benefit and we can work out the true position. (I'm assuming here that all the housing benefit that you got paid went towards the rent. Can you confirm that this is the case?)

 

Yes, i can confirm we've paid all the housing benefit to the agent, however proving that might be a different matter.

 

My partners mum has paid around 11 payments of £120 = £1,320

 

Take that from the total you came up with leaves £214.2

 

We can't proove & can't remember the amounts we've paid to top things up, a random £20 here & there.

[NewSAHD]

Two sets of Christmas nativity plays to attend this morning and a cooker to buy too, so apologies if this post appears a little off base, at first.

 

Notwithstanding the comments earlier that the Agent said over the Landlord not being happy with them etc, I suspect the Agent and Landlord may be colluding - as you would, perhaps, expect anyway!

 

I mention this as the promissory note signed in the Summer is "useful" / "evil", depending on whether you are the Agent/Landlord, or the Tenant. One missed payment and you, the Tenanr, have no defence; it's a promise to pay, after all.

 

Eviction?

 

Various notices have to be served before this can happen and if you don't move out you cannot be physically ejected, not without the intervention of the Courts/Court appointed bailiffs and so on.

 

As it's an AST the landlord is, ultimately, guaranteed possession, but it takes a minimum of two months from the serving of the first notices (look on these threads for discussion on s8 and s21 notices (Housing Act 1988, as amended), as well as mandatory and discretionary grounds for possession.

 

The odd missed £20 is unfortunate. Is there a pattern in your own bank statements though as to when these £20 were taken? And how/to whom were they paid. Knew someone who knicked tenant's money when they paid him direct. Not nice.

 

Not suggesting that is what has happened here...

 

More importantly, perhaps, you must make sure you've kept to what was signed for in the promissory note too (the promise to pay bit).

 

I've always tended to add a line to such documents as "I (tenant) have been advised to seek independent advice prior to signing, but have chosen not to do so" or similar. A bit belt and braces, but was done to avoid anyone saying to me "YOU knew full well as an Agent/Landlord what I was signing, as a tenant I was in much weaker position and feel I was bullied in to signing". As the documents are, to all intents, freely entered in to I don't believe you have much grounds to complain that you signed, but worth, perhaps, a quick word with your solicitor all the same.

 

Unfair Contracts don't really come in to it, as I recall, but I'd be curious if the promissory note does, even if the tenancy agreement doesn't. That makes some sense to me, sorry if i sounds muddled now. Will edit this post when back later, as needed - unless someone else can helpful confirm/correct me?

 

Got to go now, "Away In A Manger" is beckoning

[bedlington83]

Yes, i can confirm we've paid all the housing benefit to the agent, however proving that might be a different matter.

Prior to March of this year you were giving the agent the housing benefit cheques so they will be provable. Do you have any receipts from the agent from when you paid cash?

 

My partners mum has paid around 11 payments of £120 = £1,320

 

Take that from the total you came up with leaves £214.2

Agreed. When are you expecting the paper work?

[bedlington83]

Notwithstanding the comments earlier that the Agent said over the Landlord not being happy with them etc, I suspect the Agent and Landlord may be colluding - as you would, perhaps, expect anyway!

 

I mention this as the promissory note signed in the Summer is "useful" / "evil", depending on whether you are the Agent/Landlord, or the Tenant. One missed payment and you, the Tenanr, have no defence; it's a promise to pay, after all.

 

Do you really think there's been collusion or raise it as a possibility? If anything I think that they (landlord and agent) are at loggerheads and the landlord has finally had enough and is trying to evict on the basis of the situation as he understands it. Unfortunately for him, his view is jaundiced by the agent not passing on payments that have been made. The agent meanwhile is desperately trying to get back in the landlords good books by issuing the LBA unaware of the section 8

 

Eviction?

 

Various notices have to be served before this can happen and if you don't move out you cannot be physically ejected, not without the intervention of the Courts/Court appointed bailiffs and so on.

 

As it's an AST the landlord is, ultimately, guaranteed possession, but it takes a minimum of two months from the serving of the first notices (look on these threads for discussion on s8 and s21 notices (Housing Act 1988, as amended), as well as mandatory and discretionary grounds for possession.

The OP has been served a section 8 notice, under which, as I am sure you are aware, ground 8 is a mandatory ground. That's why I've been banging on about the arrears and what the true (and provable) position is: If here are no arrears, or less than 2 months, the section 8 application will fail. It is, however, for the tenant to show that they are not in arrears

[NewSAHD]

Do you really think there's been collusion or raise it as a possibility? If anything I think that they (landlord and agent) are at loggerheads

 

Raised it as a possibility, that was all .

 

Agree with you, to a degree, it does seem they are not really talking.

 

Why else such an obvious hash of getting their arrears figures right, if that's what has happened here?

 

Perhaps I owe you a bit more of an explanation: I was struck by what else was at sake here (redevelopment site, possible CPO's, local authority monies available) and, with the current economic conditions, was thinking through what other matters might be being played out in the background. Put it down to an entirely innocent, passing comment in a pub, if you like, to see what, if anything else, occurred to anyone!

 

The arrears situation still seems a bit odd though.

 

I am sure it would help matters considerably (and Gunga's solicitor on Monday and the Court in due course in particular) if a schedule of monies due and paid could be produced now, so that all can see at a glance Gunga's position, before the same gets passed to Gunga's solicitor on Monday and the Court in due course etc.

 

We still need to see the AST though, for a variety of reasons, not least that that will confirm what exactly is due and when.

 

Gunga, how soon can you get an edited version of

a) your AST (edited as needed) and

b) an arrears schedule posted for us all please?

 

Also, if the promissory note was based on incorrect information then regardless of it being signed I would hope that, in Court, equity would prevail. i.e. Gunga should only pay what was required under the tenancy agreement, not by the promissory note.

 

Ground 8, yes, sorry, was typing in haste (as I am now, sorry!, still got to sort the broken oven today) and didn't want anything to slip through the net for Gunga. Such as revisiting the lack of hot water / heating. Even if the landlord is successful with the notices etc, Gunga and his/her family still has two months or so to live without these essentials .

 

Also, I have a small dilemma, hope I can explain it clearly, whilst typing at 110mph.

 

I'm in two minds as to whether Gunga should be helping correct the other sides possible mistakes every step of the way, as his end game is to secure suitable, alternate accommodation through the local authority, or whether to not tell them - but, in so doing, the "minimum period to obtain possession of an AST being 2 months" then, potentially, becomes somewhat longer. And, if so, Gunga and his family still don't have suitable hot water / heating.

 

Gunga's solicitor should be able to better advise on Monday, of course, if they are an L&T lawyer (a question to ask), but I believe it is helpful for Gunga and all others posting here to have a clear(ish) view of

 

- what should happen now (practical things such as heating / hot water)

- as well as dealing with the arrears, notices,

- as well as quite when it is safe for Gunga and family to move and not lose the chance to move somewhere better through the local authority,

- whilst securing whatever monies/inducements are available to move, within reasonable limits

 

Hope that better explains my own, entirely personal views :grin: on what, much more seriously, is clearly a source of great worry for Gunga.

 

Must go, but hope to check back in later,

Best for now,

NewSAHD

[Gunga]

Thanks for the replies.

 

I've provided all we know of the arrears:

 

from the agent:

 

From the landlord:

 

That's all we know right now.

[AngelofSol]

Firstly, just to point something out so there isn't future confusion I believe you have the two pictures of the documents mixed up. When I clicked on them the one you have on the post as listed for the agent came up with the file heading regarding the Landlord. Hope that isn't too confusing in and of itself.

 

It just seems that with a whole bunch of numbers and figures being thrown around and trying to sort it all out that a little accident like this will just confuse things more and I wouldn't want that to happen to you or the people here trying to help. You've got bigger fish to fry than to worry about a little mix up!

 

I am sorry I didn't take a look at this sooner. Based on what I've been sent I have to conclude with NewSahd... the two companies don't seem to be linked. However, the company that is your LL... it seems to have multiple directors.

 

Before I share my thoughts this may have already been clarified and addressed. Forgive me as the late comer. I've been sick and busy and sick of being busy and busy with being sick

 

On the eviction notice and any correspondence and/or court papers you have received does it have the company name listed on all of them or does it have any one of these individual director's names listed on them?

 

I don't know what the significance of this would be if your lease is with a company but you're dealing with only one director. My guess is that it could be important and mean any number of different things, most of which are pure conjecture and might not, at least not right now, help you in any significant way. However it may... may shed some light on things and if we're lucky open up an avenue and shed some light on some things.

 

If it's an individual who directs the company I can't help but wonder if the company is falling apart and someone else holds the records for the rent you've paid. This is sort of my train of thought on asking this question.

 

However it's completely irrelevant if your LL is the company AND your being pursued by the company.

 

There's alot of money being thrown around here... figures and all. Is there no way for you to find any bank records, any cash point receipts, etc that will help to jog your memory (or your partner's mother's memory) about amounts that were paid and when on the small occasional one off payment.

 

I'm not too good with numbers when they're not in paper in front of me with someone to explain to me in real time what I'm looking at so while I tried I didn't get much off the multitude of posts with figures. I get the gist but I can't really keep up.

 

Sorry I haven't been of much help but I would be curious as to the answer to any of my questions.

[danielr]

forgetting for a moment what the estate agent, and what the landlord *think* they are owed.

 

what you need is a list of the payments that you've made.

and receipts to back up those payments.

 

 

you say that the HB would have been paid by cheque to the agent up until the time that they said that they couldn't take it any more.

 

so you should be able to get a record of this.

 

then you said that they rest has been paid by paypal so you should be able to look at your account history on paypal for this.

 

you paid the money to the agent. and can prove it quite easily, what happened to the money after it got to the estate agent is between the landlord and the estate agent.

[Gunga]

Just a quick update guys,

 

Went to see the Solicitor today, she was appalled that we we've been living with no heating or hot water since September.

 

She phoned the landlords solicitor & they confirmed they had a problem with the agent.

 

Basically the solicitor is going to counter claim the damp & lack of heating if it's taken to court as well as the discrepancy in the rent arrears but after phoning the landlords solicitor we get the impression it will just be a case of finalising what exactly we owe & paying the landlord direct.

 

I'll keep you posted on the outcome which of course will be in the new year.

 

Thanks for all your help & hope you all have a good Christmas!!

[NewSAHD]

Gunga, hi, that all seems much more positive, look forward to hearing how you get on.

 

Did your Solicitor/landlord's Solicitor give any indication as to what, if anything, they would do to provide temporary heating / hot water?

 

I ask as my other half has been stuck in snow bound traffic for the past four hours , so, currently, we are sensitive to how cold it could get over Christmas/New Year for you too.

[Gunga]

Did your Solicitor/landlord's Solicitor give any indication as to what, if anything, they would do to provide temporary heating / hot water?

 

No, not as yet.

 

We've just bought a heater for the kids room, it's rather good & we have it on all night on a thermostat that keeps it a comfortable temperature, cost a bit to run but that can't be helped.

 

We're just happy it's looking more positive for us & we're ready for Christmas now.

[NewSAHD]

In that case, that's much better news then . Enjoy the Christmas break and look forward to hearing how you get on in the New Year, as will others, I'm sure!

[Gunga]

Hi,

 

Hope you all had a great Christmas.

 

Just wanted to post an update for you all.

 

Our solicitor contacted the landlord, and receive a phone call yesterday from him, he had no idea we had no boiler or hot water and is going to withdraw the section 8, also he is suing the landlord with our help.

 

He's also agreed to sell the property & signed all the forms and posted them yesterday too. He's offered us another property if we want it and we are to pay him directly from now.

 

Great news for us.

 

I'd like to thank you all for your help & hope you all have a great year!!