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    • I've inserted their poc re:your.. 1 ..they did send 2 paploc's  3. neither the agreement nor default is mentioned in their 2.        
    • Hi Guys, i read a fair few threads and saw a lot of similar templates being used. i liked this one below and although i could elaborate on certain things (they ignored my CCA and sent 2 PAPs etc etc) , am i right in that at this stage keep it short? If thats the case i cant see what i need to add/change about this one   1)   the defendant entered into a consumer credit act 1974 regulated agreements vanquis under account reference xxxxxxx 2)   The defendant failed to maintain the required payment, arrears began to accrue 3)   The agreement was later assigned to the claimant on 29 September 2017 and notice given to the defendant 4)   Despite repeated requests for payment, the sum of 2247.91 remains due outstanding And the claimant claims a)The said sum of £2247.91 b)The interest pursuant to S 69 county courts act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum from the date of issue, accruing at a daily rate of £xxxx, but limited to one year,  being £xxxx c)Costs   Defence:   The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim vague and are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.   1. The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC ( Pre Action Protocol) Failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017.It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.   2. The Claimant claims £2247.91 is owed under a regulated consumer credit account under reference xxxxxxx. I do not recall the precise details or agreement and have sought verification from the claimant and the claimants solicitor by way of a CPR 31.14 and section 78 request who are yet to fully comply.   3. Paragraph 2 is denied. I am unable to recall the precise details of the alleged agreement or any default notice served in breach of any defaulted payments. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied.The Defendant contends that no notice of assignment pursuant to s.136 of the Law of Property Act & s.82 A of the CCA1974 has ever been served by the Claimant as alleged or at all.   5. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of assignment/balance/breach requested by CPR 31. 14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:   (a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and (b) show and evidence any cause of action and service of a Default Notice or termination notice; and © show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;   6. After receiving this claim I requested by way of a CPR 31.14 request and a section 78 request for copies of any documents referred to within the Claimants' particulars to establish what the claim is for. To date they have failed to comply to my CPR 31.14 request and also my section 78 request and remain in default with regards to this request.   7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.   8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.   9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.  
    • i understand. Just be aware I am prepared to take some risks 😉
    • Thanks Tnook,   Bear with us while we discuss this behind the scenes - we want you to win just as much as you do but we want to find the right balance between maximising your claim without risking too much in court fees, and in possible court costs awarded to the defendant bank.
    • Tell your son and think on this. He can pay the £160  and have no further worries from them. If he read POFA  Scedule 4 he would find out that if he went to Court and lost which is unlikely on two counts at least [1] they don't do Court and 2] they know they would lose in Court] the most he would be liable to pay them is £100 or whatever the amount on the sign says. He is not liable for the admin charges as that only applies to the driver-perhaps.If he kept his nerve, he would find out that he does not owe them a penny and that applies to the driver as well. But we do need to see the signage at the entrance to the car park and around the car park as well as any T&Cs on the payment meter if there is one. He alone has to work out whether it is worth taking a few photographs to help avoid paying a single penny to these crooks as well as receiving letters threatening him with Court , bailiffs  etc trying to scare him into paying money he does not owe. They know they cannot take him to Court. They know he does not owe them a penny. But they are hoping he does not know so he pays them. If he does decide to pay, tell him to wait as eventually as a last throw of the dice they play Mister Nice Guy and offer a reduction. Great. Whatever he pays them it will be far more than he owes as their original PCN is worthless. Read other threads where our members have been ticketed for not having a permit. [We know so little about the situation that we do not know if he has a permit and forgot to display it. ]
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Like many others I too was issued a penalty notice for not being able to produce a valid ticket. I was travelling on National Express East Anglia and could not find my ticket. I explained to the 'officer' that I had bought a ticket. He informed me that he had to issue the penalty but I could appeal as long as I had proof of purchase. He was friendly and told me not to worry and that this sort of thing does happen (sympathy for a middle aged woman?) When I got home and went through everything I discovered that I had lost my ticket along with my oyster card but I did find my receipt and ticket number. I appealed on-line and put in all the ticket information. I was then written to on three different occasion by the IAS asking for proof of purchase. I duly did this each time and on the final occasion having received two letters with different references I photocopied the whole lot and send it registered post. I was then written to saying even though I provided what they had asked for and it was accepted as proof of payment it doesn't matter because I should have had the ticket at the time the inspector asked for it.


Reading through oldcoj's quotes I understand about having to produce a valid ticket. Why then do they allow you to appeal and ask for proof of purchase if the appeal will never be granted? It seems to be a paper exercise and a waste of time and money.


Is there anywhere to go from here?

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Welcome to the site.

No doubt you will see a response,but a good idea to start your own thread.

Leave that for now I will sort that when you see some response since you have asked questions here.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.



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The fact is that the actual ticket must be produced at the time of travel


A receipt, a scanned image or photo-copy of a ticket cannot be accepted as proof that a valid ticket was held for reasons that I have stated elsewhere, but chiefly because:


a) a ticket produced later could be a ticket that was used by a third party

b) a scanned image or, photo-copy can be manipulated

c) a receipt only confirms that a fare had been paid. It does not confirm who any ticket holder was.


Yes, it is worth appealing if there is a genuine case and for example, where a season ticket is held and had been inadvertently left behind, although this cannot be accepted every time without question. The rules allow for only two such claims.


If a traveller genuinely could not get a ticket before travelling and a penalty notice has been issued, then an appeal will generally be successful because checks of the monitored infrastructure will reveal the appeal was justified.


Please take this next piece in the spirit that it is intended.


I am sympathetic in genuine cases, but we all have to accept responsibility for our own actions. It may seem a little churlish to some people, but it has to be recognised that the rail companies are not responsible for looking after our tickets for us. If I go into my bank, draw £100 and lose it on the way home, the bank will not give me another £100 free of charge I'm afraid.


The proof that any individual has a right to travel on a train is the production of a valid ticket on demand at the time of travel. The Byelaw simply confirms that


As has been said elsewhere, you could request a judicial review of the reasons for rejection of your appeal, but that would be incredibly costly by comparison with the charge being levied by the penalty notice.


The alternatives are to either:


1) pay the penalty or,

2) pay nothing, in which case a Summons will probably be issued and go to Court, plead not-guity and argue your case there.


As for why an appeal procedure is allowed in all cases in the first place, the answer to that is that it is a legal requirement. It is a condition of the rules laid down in authorising a Penalty Fares scheme.


It has to be said that on occasion, it is useful in confirming that there was intent to avoid a fare too. It is very enlightening to read the spurios claims made in some appeal letters.


Hope that helps.

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It's often a 'get out' of staff when they say if you appeal and have found the ticket you'll receive a refund of the penalty fare. As Old_Codger stated, the offence is not being able to produce a valid ticket on demand.

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I think it cost the railway company for every appeal made around £4.50 so make an appeal its a 50:50 of winning. inspectors can make mistakes...

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