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Permission to go to the toilet!


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Hi all,

 

wondered if anyone could let me know if this is legal!

 

We had an e-mail about a month ago saying that we must seek permission from a manager when we wish to go to the toilet, I kicked up a fuss straight away, at 30 years old I refuse.... I have searched online to find legislation against this but everything seems to be a few years old, and a review of regulations was expected, although it does seem very common in call centres.

 

all advice appreciated!!!

Insurance Guy

If I can offer any help I will....

I have experience in Fault, Non-Fault & Disputed Liability Motor Claims for vehicle damage and hire, and some experience in Personal Injury Claims

 

 

If I've helped- please click my scales :D

 

ANY ASSISTANCE IS GIVEN ENTIRELY WITHOUT PREJUDICE- YOU SHOULD SEEK INDEPENDANT LEGAL ADVICE TO CONFIRM ANY ADVICE GIVEN

FEEL FREE TO PM ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD IF YOU WOULD LIKE ADVICE 8-)

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Aye, it's a moot point.

 

If there's a reason why you have to use the bathroom more often than usual I think they'd struggle to refuse.

In fact, I don't see how they can refuse full stop.

If you've got to go, you've got to go.

What are ya supposed to do, sit at your desk and have an accident?

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exactly my thoughts.

 

When i first kicked up the massive fuss that I did, I was told by manager that permission would probably never be refused, but it is to allow cover to be arranged- sorry but my bladder is more important than a call waiting!!!!

 

It is leading onto much bigger issues, as I am now being accused of bullying the person responsible for implementing this idea..... how am I bullying them- by asking to go to the toilet! (which I said I would do until I had clarified my human and employee rights!) But because I make a point of asking, so that people hear, and dont presume I havent asked, this is to humiliate the supervisor!!!!

Insurance Guy

If I can offer any help I will....

I have experience in Fault, Non-Fault & Disputed Liability Motor Claims for vehicle damage and hire, and some experience in Personal Injury Claims

 

 

If I've helped- please click my scales :D

 

ANY ASSISTANCE IS GIVEN ENTIRELY WITHOUT PREJUDICE- YOU SHOULD SEEK INDEPENDANT LEGAL ADVICE TO CONFIRM ANY ADVICE GIVEN

FEEL FREE TO PM ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD IF YOU WOULD LIKE ADVICE 8-)

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The health and safety at work implies but does not give implicit instructions on this:

 

the provision and maintenance of a working environment for his employees that is, so far as is reasonably practicable, safe, without risks to health, and adequate as regards facilities and arrangements for their welfare at work

 

The law only enforces the provision of such but doesn't say anything about your right to use them.

 

There are, however, explicit laws laid down for pregnant and nursing mothers.

 

The regulations are being looked at, but as is typical of this government, nothing will happen even if they promise it will.

Edited by Conniff
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exactly my thoughts.

 

When i first kicked up the massive fuss that I did, I was told by manager that permission would probably never be refused, but it is to allow cover to be arranged- sorry but my bladder is more important than a call waiting!!!!

 

It is leading onto much bigger issues, as I am now being accused of bullying the person responsible for implementing this idea..... how am I bullying them- by asking to go to the toilet! (which I said I would do until I had clarified my human and employee rights!) But because I make a point of asking, so that people hear, and dont presume I havent asked, this is to humiliate the supervisor!!!!

 

If they'r being humiliated, surely it's because their idea is so stupid and humiliating to them?

Post by me are intended as a discussion of the issues involved, as these are of general interest to me and others on the forum. Although it is hoped such discussion will be of use to readers, before exposing yourself to risk of loss you should not rely on any principles discussed without confirming the situation with a qualified person.

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The Human Rights Act would not apply here, as the act governs the relationship between a state and all those persons who find themselves within the power and authority of that state. It doesn't govern the relationship between private individuals or employer/employee relations.

 

There is no law which states an employee is entitled to use the toilet in work time. What the law does state is an employee is entitled to a 20 minute rest break if they work over 6 hours in a day, but there is nothing aside from this in regard to breaks from the working environment. Some unions are pressing for a change in the law which would afford an employee the right to use the toilet out with the break period. Aside from any law, it's downright degrading having to seek permission to pee as an adult.

 

This type of carry on is known in call centres unfortunately, and has been the subject of headaches for some time, see here: Hazards Magazine and WHIN

 

I seem to remember a thread where there was a light went on in the area when someone was in the toilet and another individual could not go until the light went off again, signalling that someone else could use the facilities.

My advice is based on my opinion, my experience and my education. I do not profess to be an expert in any given field. If requested, I will provide a link where possible to relevant legislation or guidance, so that advice provided can be confirmed and I do encourage others to follow those links for their own peace of mind. Sometimes my advice is not what people necesserily want to hear, but I will advise on facts as I know them - although it may not be what a person wants to hear it helps to know where you stand. Advice on the internet should never be a substitute for advice from your own legal professional with full knowledge of your individual case.

 

 

Please do not seek, offer or produce advice on a consumer issue via private message; it is against

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There are implied terms of all employment contracts though, several of which could apply, including health and safety.

 

And my understanding of the human rights side of it is that a court or tribunal must interpret the law in a way which is compatible with convention rights, so this avenue is not entirely closed off.

Post by me are intended as a discussion of the issues involved, as these are of general interest to me and others on the forum. Although it is hoped such discussion will be of use to readers, before exposing yourself to risk of loss you should not rely on any principles discussed without confirming the situation with a qualified person.

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There are implied terms of all employment contracts though, several of which could apply, including health and safety.

 

And my understanding of the human rights side of it is that a court or tribunal must interpret the law in a way which is compatible with convention rights, so this avenue is not entirely closed off.

 

The action could not be raised under "The Human Rights Act" unless the employer is a public authority. Action can be raised in relation to human rights which are incorporated into Employment law, but not the human rights act itself.

 

It is unlawful for a public authority to act in a manner which is incompatible with a convention right. Section 6, Human Rights Act 1998. There is no mention in the Human Rights Act of it being unlawful for any other individual or private business acting in a manner which is incompatible with a convention right.

 

Though courts must interperet legislation as far as possible in a manner which is compatible with the convention, this does not allow them to over ride legislation if it is not possible to interpret an Act of Parliament so as to make it compatible with the Convention. All they are able to do in this situation is issue a declaration of incompatibility (more info on that here) Declaration of incompatibility - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Full legislation for human rights act: Human Rights Act 1998 (c. 42)

 

From Directgov Human rights in the workplace : Directgov - Employment

 

From EHRC EHRC - Questions about human rights

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My advice is based on my opinion, my experience and my education. I do not profess to be an expert in any given field. If requested, I will provide a link where possible to relevant legislation or guidance, so that advice provided can be confirmed and I do encourage others to follow those links for their own peace of mind. Sometimes my advice is not what people necesserily want to hear, but I will advise on facts as I know them - although it may not be what a person wants to hear it helps to know where you stand. Advice on the internet should never be a substitute for advice from your own legal professional with full knowledge of your individual case.

 

 

Please do not seek, offer or produce advice on a consumer issue via private message; it is against

forum rules to advise via private message, therefore pm's requesting private advice will not receive a response.

(exceptions for prior authorisation)

 

 

 

 

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Going back to the original issue, it seems to me that it is an issue of respect and dignity, the same reason why employers provide separate male and female toilets.

 

I would suggest the requirement imposed can be seen as a fundamental breach of your implied T&C and it would be entirely acceptable to decline/ disagree with the changes.

 

Anyone more knowledgeable care to provide comments?

I am not a lawyer, so all my advice is provided on the basis that you will check them with a trained legal professional with legal insurance.:(

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I remember when they tried to do this in my old workplace, a DIY store. We were told we couldn't go to the toilet without first asking a manager. I think it lasted about three days, as management soon got fed up of members of staff approaching them while the manager/manageress was speaking to a customer, and saying,"May I please go to the toilet for a wee?"

 

The customers used to laugh out loud, and shake their heads, whilst the management, supervisors included, told head office they felt ashamed and embarrassed on the shop floor, when staff spoke to them like they we're a kid, wanting to go to the toilet.

 

I've no idea what it's like in call centres, but in my job, where it was hands on, on a tile department, you went when you had to, and took no longer than a few minutes, depending on how much coffee you'd had!

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we have allowances for toilet/comfort breaks in the call centre i work in.

 

as long as its not 'excessive' they don't tend to bother but if it does they are quite good in checking if you need referred to OH for extended times.

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I remember when they tried to do this in my old workplace, a DIY store. We were told we couldn't go to the toilet without first asking a manager. I think it lasted about three days, as management soon got fed up of members of staff approaching them while the manager/manageress was speaking to a customer, and saying,"May I please go to the toilet for a wee?"

 

 

Is it possible to do something like that at your workplace? Would love to see that approach succeed!!

I am not a lawyer, so all my advice is provided on the basis that you will check them with a trained legal professional with legal insurance.:(

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Probably the best approach.

 

"Miss! Miss!! I need a WEE WEE!!!:D

oh no. it's too late.:eek:

 

:lol:

My advice is based on my opinion, my experience and my education. I do not profess to be an expert in any given field. If requested, I will provide a link where possible to relevant legislation or guidance, so that advice provided can be confirmed and I do encourage others to follow those links for their own peace of mind. Sometimes my advice is not what people necesserily want to hear, but I will advise on facts as I know them - although it may not be what a person wants to hear it helps to know where you stand. Advice on the internet should never be a substitute for advice from your own legal professional with full knowledge of your individual case.

 

 

Please do not seek, offer or produce advice on a consumer issue via private message; it is against

forum rules to advise via private message, therefore pm's requesting private advice will not receive a response.

(exceptions for prior authorisation)

 

 

 

 

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Is it possible to do something like that at your workplace? Would love to see that approach succeed!!

 

It only worked cos the supervisors and assistant managers all agreed with us it was stupid, and could take a joke.

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