Direct debit without my permission!

[wonderwomen83]

I completed 12 months of my contract with a gym but had to cancel my direct debit after this period, they made me give another 3 months notice.

 

I advised Esporta that my bank account was empty and i made payments from another bank.

 

I spoke to a lady on many occassions and she was well aware that i was struggling to pay and why i had to cancel the direct debit. i rec'd a phone call from her on the 25/11 asking me to set the direct debit back up, i declined and she sent me a dd form to fill in, this was not returned to her.

 

Yesterday i rec'd a letter from the bank stating that Esporta had set 2 direct debits up on my bank account and 1 payment was rejected due to lack of funds. i have toda\y had the other amount refunded by the bank.

 

When i called the gym and spoke to her she said that she had set the direct debit up without my authorisation!! is she allowed to do this!? i have incurred high charges from the bank.

 

I have wrote a letter of complaint and im not paying them a penny, i personally feel like she has violated any kind of commitment i had with them, seriously can someone set up a direct debit after you have told them no and have not given them any kind of authorisation?

 

I hope someone can help me.

[yourbank]

She is not allowed to set it up without your authorisation and so I would put a formal written complaint into the organisation with exactly what you have said above.

[blitz]

There is a direct debit guarantee, you should be able to inform the bank that this was not authorised and they should refund the amount. Then as YB said, make a formal complaint to the company.

[buzby]

The problem is you gave them the information in the FIRST place - so, as the DD scheme allows creditors to re-activate a DD (that has been otherwise cancelled) the issue is did YOU actually ask your bank to cancel it? If so you'll be covered, but if not - and it remained on your account in 'limbo' state, ready for the reactivation, yes, they ARE allowed to do this.

 

Never, EVER get sucked into DD - you are expecting others to tread your finances with respect. You know they don;t, so why do it?

 

Once you can establish how the gym could reactivate a DD you had cancelled, you should get a proper answer from your bank.

[ZipDee]

Wonderwoman,

 

send a recorded delivery of a letter to the company saying they 'have contravened The Theft Act (1996) in debiting a bank account to credit their own without the account holder's knowlege, expectation nor consent, and that such acts are punishable by up to 10 years in prison. If the full amount of money taken (plus whatever costs have been incurred at your bank because of the unlawful debit/s) within a reasonable time (you dictate the time frame) you will be seeking the assistance of The Chief Constable (of the area the firm's office/head office - where the offence was committed that is) to indict for a Contravention of The Theft Act.

 

I did this, the Chief Constable wrote me a letter telling which officer was dealing with the case, and within a week or so I got my money (and the firm would be stupid to overstep the mark again with others, don't you think?)

[buzby]

Yes you can do that and give them a really good laugh too.

 

As you have an established relationship, and willingly entered into a DD, there is no theft, as they are collecting money they say is owed under contract, and as far as I can see - this remains the case.

 

My Chief Constable is too busy playing golf to bother himself with civil disputes.

[ZipDee]

Buzby,

 

I cannot imagine, have no idea what your vested interest may be to for you to want to so stridently belittle the advice I gave in good faith to wonderwoman?

 

It was advice given from experience that I believed would be helpful. And banks are interested in any abuse of the direct debit system, and to prevent it becoming so abused as to become useless.

 

Are you the fitness club owner?

 

Do you have customers that you do similar things to?

 

I can assure you that, once written to, a Chief Constable will not ignore the letter.

 

I can assure also that what was said is valid and you may check the validity yourself, any one may,by googling The Theft Act.

 

If you do not own the club, or do not do similar things to customers you have,please do so, because I feel immense sympathy and sorrow for any poor soul that exists in such a state of negativity without cause.

[Mossycat]

Buzby is 100% correct with his advice and far from trying to belittle your incorrect assumptions he was simply correcting them.

 

Whilst you may have felt you were giving advice in good faith I am sure the OP would rather only have facts as opposed to having her hopes raised and then finding out that what they had been told was a load of rubbish.

 

This is NOT theft, the CPS would never entertain bringing a prosecution under these circumstances, the OP entered into a contract and willingly gave DD details, the fitness club re-activated the DD.

 

Mossy

Edited December 8, 2009 by Mossycat

[buzby]

As Mossycat notes - we deal with practicalities, not with what we may THINK is right. To sustain a THEFT prosecution it requires a number of things to be proven - an intent to deprive for one. But this isn't the case here.

 

As for writingf to the Chief Constable - do you seriously think a letter to them would even cross their desk, never mind be acted upon! Rather than teach me to suck eggs - I have no need to 'Google' the theft acts, I'm aware they exist - I'm simply point out that they are a relevant as the Data Protection Act or the Representation of the People Act. Sure, they all exist - but have no relevance.

 

All collective advice is welcome when relevant - but not when it has no bearing on reality.

[ZipDee]

If somebody gets into your cache of money after you have closed your pocket and takes money without your 'knowledge, ecpectation nor consent' that is theft - whatever intrepetation other than theft that you and buzby care to put on what has happened when this ocurs, it is defined in law as theft.

 

Using half-baked notions of how the 'system actually operates (in your opinion) that the CPS will not...' whatever, has absolutely no bearing on the advice I gave wonderwoman - practical advice, gained from a knowledge of the law available to anyone by googling, thanks to the current government having put all laws online and in an easily accessible manner, and which both you and buzby would do well to read.

 

Once a theft has been committed - the 'wronfully debiting of one account to the credit of another' in this case, and a direct contravention of The Theft Act - a crime has been committed, and you do not need the CPS to decide vwhether or not a crime has been committed if the definition of the crime is written in black and white in front of your incredulous eyes!

 

Instead of ringing 'crimestoppers' (no reference to what the CPS may or may not do required) I did what common sense bid me to do and wrote to The Chief Costable of the area where the firm that had committed the offence was based. And I had my money that had been stolen by theft (I can think of no other description that might truly define what happened) returned within the week of writing.

 

I did not check on the press local to the company to see if anyone had had their collar felt.

 

Wonderwoman, half-baked notions of how the law supposedly works and strident negativity will get you no where.

 

I have no vested interest in your following the advice I gave, other than hoping you get your money back quickly, and that it might hopefully prevent similar behaviour by the company in future - and it is for these ends alone that I am willing to take the time to offer positive and effective advice.

Edited December 8, 2009 by ZipDee

[buzby]

I see you aree overlooking the obvious fact that there has been an agrement between the parties whereby 'unspecified amounts' may be removed from the OP's account on 'unspecified dates'.

 

This agreement has nothing to do with your rather simplistic 'pocket' amalogy, which would be relevant only if the OP had not provided permission for the pickpocket to take as much as they want and as often as they want.

 

So - as this isn't theft - I'm most happy for you to believe it is theft. fraud or any of a multitude of irrelevances, but don't try to draw CAGgers into your delusions - they deserve better.

[ZipDee]

Buzby,

 

Wonderwoman's contract had run its course (a perfect example of an obvious fact if you care to read her post).

 

The addition of 3 months cannot be arbitrarily thrust onto a contract.

 

The contract had run its course, so any thing other than wonderwoman actually signing a new contract with a new direct debit agreement becomes simply a means for levering open a route to wonderwoman's money - a lever to permit theft.

 

If this is not an 'obvious fact' to you I begin to believe that unless an obvious fact runs up and bites your bum you will ignore it , unless of course you are desirous of choosing to see it.

 

I'm sorry I am losing the will to live faced by such inane hostility to what was a serious attempt to help another human being.

 

If you two harpies ever get around to an objective acceptance/valuation of the world in which the rest of us poor sods have to live, please don't email me to tell me as the shock will undoubtedly kill me.

 

NO MORE REPLIES WILL BE MADE TO INANITIES

[Mossycat]

Once a theft has been committed - the 'wronfully debiting of one account to the credit of another' in this case, and a direct contravention of The Theft Act - a crime has been committed, and you do not need the CPS to decide vwhether or not a crime has been committed if the definition of the crime is written in black and white in front of your incredulous eyes!

 

 

OK first off it's NOT theft

 

Second off, you do need the CPS to decide if it's a crime or not, the system works as follows, any crime is reported to the CPS, if they say prosecute it goes ahead, if they say NO, it gets dropped. That's the black and white of it.

 

And as for the contract running its course, are you 100% certain that the fitness club does not have a 3 month cancellation period built into the contract, and that the cancellation cannot be effected until the first 12 months have passed???? (I ask that because I've seen that in other posts from users who try to cancel fitness club memberships)

 

Since there was no theft in the first place, then the police will not be involved, but even if they were to be somehow drawn into this then the CPS would not take it to Court.

 

And as has been said already, whilst it's OK for you to believe what you want to believe, it's quite another thing for you to be giving advice or stating as fact something that just isn't true or correct, that's not fair to other CAGgers

 

Mossy

[buzby]

NO MORE REPLIES WILL BE MADE TO INANITIES

 

You Beat me to it.

[royalscot]

On a dark and cold tuesday , feeling miserable and not well at all after a hard days graft .....I came across this thread ....I must admit it cheered me up no end , the wit and wonderful use of long words has had me splitting my sides . Poor Wonderwoman 83 is no further forward but im sure she had a wee giggle just like me when she read the posts , i hope for her sake she picks the correct advice and gets this sorted out . This happened to me with a council tax bill , it was after the last payment was made in february , i changed direct debit details but the bank took the next payment from the old direct debit ....It was a case of crossed wires , but i should have cancelled the old one ...anyway goodluck wonderwoman and thanks for making my day a happier one ....MOSSYCAT , ZIPDEE AND BUZBY

[ZipDee]

Wonderwoman,

 

I noticed the 'Direct Debit without permission' thread after posting information on the 'Wenworth Finance' thread.

 

Incidently, it did allow an online friend to get his money back off this company, and I hope it also helps many others to get their money back

[reorete]

omg grow up please. why be so rude to zipdee.

[buzby]

omg grow up please. why be so rude to zipdee.

 

Why? How does responding in a similar vein to comments only work one way? If a poster wishes to express an opinion, that's great. When it degenerates into name calling, any rudeness is reciprocated. (The mods may dislike it, but at the end of the day is usually dies a death anyway. Like this had already done, until you reawakened it, some THREE WEEKS later.

[reorete]

if its so dead im wondering why your buzzing round it like a fly round poop tskkkk what a rude person.

[buzby]

Perhaps because you dropped it in the first place? Talk about a pot calling the kettle black!

[supasnooper]

Now now....enough is enough.

 

Please keep the thread on topic and do not let it descend into trading insults.

 

CAG is here to be helpful to people......not to denigrate them.

[wonderwomen83]

Hello,

 

I have read through this thread with disbelief, i posted on here for advice, not for a fight.

 

I DID cancel the dd through the bank and the gym WERE aware that i was paying them through a different account.

 

I phoned the bank and the money was refunded to me, 2 advisors did say it was theft as she did restore the dd without permission. I did give the gym notice to cancel months ago.

 

Anyway they have now sent me to debt recovery, i will have to pay them money i do not owe then i can.

 

Thanks for the help.

[merlin100]

Can I ask a simple question here? The OP says that she entered into, and completed a 12 months contract. Then she says that the contract has a "3 months winding down clause"?

To my mind this then makes the contract not 12 months, but 15 months.

So surely, if it states on the contract that it is for 12 months only, anything after that period is unenforceable.

Any views anyone?

[Mossycat]

Can I ask a simple question here? The OP says that she entered into, and completed a 12 months contract. Then she says that the contract has a "3 months winding down clause"?

To my mind this then makes the contract not 12 months, but 15 months.

So surely, if it states on the contract that it is for 12 months only, anything after that period is unenforceable.

Any views anyone?

 

I've seen this before with fitness centres, they build in a 3 month termination clause, so if you want to end your subscriptions after 12 months you have to advise them at month 9. Most people don't realise that until month 12 and then they get caught out.

 

Most companies have a 28 day notice, ie SKY or mobile phone companies, so with them you need to give notice to terminate at month 11 for it to end at the end of month 12.

 

Mossy