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    • Hi all   Firstly, thanks for all the helpful threads on here. Whilst there's a lot to read and get through, it's both helpful and reassuring to see so much great advice and support to others in similar situations.   I've received a letter and a Claim Form from Moriarty for an ADCB CC debt. I'm presently in a DMP for existing UK debts and (probably like many others) I truly don't know the best way forward, as time is clearly of the essence - but I don't feel I've 'up to speed' yet on all the other threads, advice, lingo etc. to respond accordingly.   I'm looking at drafting the PAP and getting it of tomorrow, but just want to get into the other threads to see if it's the right thing (and get more info on similar cases).   Please feel free to comment with any advice - all gratefully received of course. Thanks again for anyone that's posted in other threads and great to see so many kind and generous respondents helping others.   PS. Haven't posted/scanned details onto the thread yet as still to read up on the rules/tips, but Claim Form filed in Northampton on 20 Nov.
    • nothing you can do can product against the very rare judge lottery syndrome.
    • not sure why you added the blue line I've highlighted? that's no in the we gave you.   as for your question... PRAC's roboclaim computer knows when the account was taken out, after all it raised the claim and checked everything carefully first before issuing the request via northants bulk courts equally inept roboclaim computer... 
    • I've been researching in preparation of compiling my particularised defence/WS.    I'm none too happy that some judges still seem to be siding with DCAs and seemingly brushing aside anything that we have assumed to be "necessary" for DCAs to have a winning case.    Reading a recent "summary" from another poster (another thread with case similar to mine - very old, illegible application form, no default notice, reliance on their own software to prove it was ever sent) and the judgment made in favour of the DCA and even suggesting that there was no "agreement with the DCA, they simply owned the debt, not the agreement"  Makes me very nervous.    Especially if cases like this will be judged on "probability" - the probability that if I signed the original application form, then I must have taken out the credit card and racked up the alleged debt as shown in statements enclosed in their WS (and dated some ten years later).   Is it ok to post some "evidence" I've found from elsewhere?    This is in line with my fears that regardless of how hard one tries to rebut the "lack of evidence" produced by DCAs for chasing these very old "alleged" debts, it does appear to come down to the luck of what judge you get on the day and how much they can be swayed by the DCA solicitor.    A quick Google search produced the following - from one case - this related to a credit agreement - which resulted in someone being made bankrupt - that person appealed the bankruptcy order on the grounds of defective credit agreement and default notice and this was the appeal judge's decision:   The necessary formalities for the entry into the regulated consumer credit agreement (which related to the debt in issue) were not complied with; The default notice served in respect of that credit agreement was defective.   The First Ground The Appellant argued that she did not receive the terms and conditions when she entered into the credit agreement and, accordingly, section 61 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (“CCA”) had not been complied with and the agreement could not be enforced. The agreement had been entered in 1995 and, whilst it had provided a microfiche copy of the front page of the application, the Respondent had been unable to provide a copy of the terms.   Despite the terms not being produced, the District Judge had found that, in the circumstances, it was very likely that such terms existed and would have been provided to the Appellant when she entered into the Agreement. Mr Justice Mann held that this was a finding that the District Judge was entitled to make.   Further, Mr Justice Mann found that it was implicit from the District Judge’s findings that she considered that the terms and conditions not only existed but had been subscribed to by the Appellant’s signature and, consequently, the requirements of section 61 CCA were fulfilled. Mr Justice Mann held that this was also a justifiable finding which should not be interfered with on appeal.   The Second Ground The Appellant also argued that the default notice upon which the Respondent relied did not comply with the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notice) Regulations 1989 because it stated the full balance of the account rather than the total of the missed payments. The Respondent argued that, as a result of the missed payments, it was contractually entitled to the entire balance subject to the service of the appropriate notice, a requirement which was fulfilled by the default notice itself and, consequently, the sum required to remedy the breach was the entire amount.   Mr Justice Mann agreed with the Respondent and the District Judge, holding that: “If by the time the default notice is served circumstances have arisen which entitle the lender to recover not merely sums which might be regarded as arrears, by which I assume is meant accumulated minimum payments, but also the whole of the sum, then they are entitled to claim that sum, and the sum to require to remedy the breach for non-payment of that sum is the payment of the whole sum due. The bank is not confined, at that stage, to claiming merely the amount of arrears if it has an accrued contractual right to have the whole of the sum.”   Do judgments like these not mean that a lot of what you guys do on here (and for which I and many others are VERY grateful) somewhat redundant. What is happening to judges just accepting "well, the terms must have been there if you signed it" -    Feeling quite nervous now.
    • we know it wasn't done to avoid enforcement we understand completely. but that doesn't take from away the fact that it happened   you can't appeal the pcn's on the basis that 'it was not his vehicle to levy upon'. the law clearly states otherwise.          
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when i got home tonight i found 1 of these cards posted through the door. i telephoned the person who had posted it and he confirmed it was for none payment of council tax,as it was too late to phone the council to find out how much is owing,about 6 weeks ago i recived a letter from the council threatening me with the bailiffs which i thought was then paid up, tonight i have found out it was only paid up till the end of october, i now understand the arrears to be in the region of £600. for various reasons at this moment i only have £100 in my bank, i need this for fuel to get to work, the next time i would be able tl pay something is on the 30th dec, although i wouldnt be able to pay it all at that time i could probably afford to pay it over 3 months, could anyone give me advise on which routeto take and which letters to send and who too

thanks

saint-luco


I won £5289 heres how

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/40703-saint-luco-natwest.html

 

 

ITS NOT WHETHER YOU WON OR LOST, BUT HOW YOU PLAY THE GAME THAT MATTERS. ( OBVIOUSLY A LOSER THEN):D :D :D

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have the bailiff been in your house????if no then just pay the council direct pay what you can afford don't let them in...

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so no letters to anyone, just pay direct to the council when i can afford it and how much i can afford


I won £5289 heres how

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/40703-saint-luco-natwest.html

 

 

ITS NOT WHETHER YOU WON OR LOST, BUT HOW YOU PLAY THE GAME THAT MATTERS. ( OBVIOUSLY A LOSER THEN):D :D :D

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By doing that you're showing a willingness to pay. No court will send you to prison for trying to pay up, and like I say to people, find out if you can pay via their website, as that way you can get a printable receipt which you probably can't get over the phone.

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telephoned the council this morning and spoke to a very nice lady who explained that i had to deal with the bailiffs not the council but after a while agreed to mark my account with the payment scheme i had suggested. the total owed is £515, she was actually quite sympathetic as we have allways paid on time, she wished me luck and said "whatever you do dont let them in".

so ithen fired off an email to the council and the bailiffs, printed them and sent them recorded delivery. this is the copy of the letter/mail

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: Your Reference

 

I understand ***** Council has appointed you to recover my Council Tax Liability arrears for 2009 of £515.00.

 

Firstly I would like to make you aware that I am fully aware of my rights and you will not gain entry to my home under any circumstances to levy goods and I know the fees allowed under statute and when these fees can be applied.

 

Due to my circumstances I am unable to pay this in one payment. Today I contacted the council and informed them that I will be making direct payments to the council of £100 on 30/12/09, £100 on 27/01/10, £160 on 01/02/10 and the remaining £155 on 01/03/10 or nearest working day after these dates

 

It should be noted that I am not at any point refusing to pay this debt..

 

Please also send an itemised statement of account that clearly shows what charges have been added and what for, you are required in statute to supply this information and I look forward to receiving this within 14 days.

 

I am sending the council a copy of this letter and requesting that it be filed with my account for further reference.

 

I hope the above meets your approval and I look forward to your timely reply by letter.

Please ensure all future correspondence is to be by mail only.

 

Yours faithfully,

Edited by saint-luco
remove name

I won £5289 heres how

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/40703-saint-luco-natwest.html

 

 

ITS NOT WHETHER YOU WON OR LOST, BUT HOW YOU PLAY THE GAME THAT MATTERS. ( OBVIOUSLY A LOSER THEN):D :D :D

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have recieved a letter stating.

as you are refusing to allow a levy the full balance is payable by return post. we are unable to enter any repayment plan. if you choose to pay the council directely it will reduce your debt but it will not stop bailiff enforcement action which will continue without further warning.

 

any ideas anyone


I won £5289 heres how

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/40703-saint-luco-natwest.html

 

 

ITS NOT WHETHER YOU WON OR LOST, BUT HOW YOU PLAY THE GAME THAT MATTERS. ( OBVIOUSLY A LOSER THEN):D :D :D

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have recieved a letter stating.

as you are refusing to allow a levy the full balance is payable by return post. we are unable to enter any repayment plan. if you choose to pay the council directely it will reduce your debt but it will not stop bailiff enforcement action which will continue without further warning.

 

any ideas anyone

 

Watching this with interest as I have sent same kind of letter to our Bailiff and I imagine the response will be the same.

 

I intend to keep mithering the council to take the debt back and keep making payments. I have forwarded proof to Bailiff that council have accepted payment via online service.

 

Interesting to note that they intend to continue enforcement action when they are fully aware that you dont intend to allow a levy. Without a levy they can do naff all other than harrass you which I believe is illegal ?

 

I will be keeping doors and windows shut, wont be answering door to anyone and will be keeping my digital camera and phone at the ready. The minute they turn up at 7.30am, block the drive and start threatening me then I will record the lot, ring the police if necessary and then arrive at council offices the minute they open and provide the proof of bailiffs actions. Please note I am not saying this to scare you but to prepare you ;)

 

That letter has been sent in order to frighten you into paying them, they may never come again.

 

Good luck with it.

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have recieved a letter stating.

as you are refusing to allow a levy the full balance is payable by return post. we are unable to enter any repayment plan. if you choose to pay the council directely it will reduce your debt but it will not stop bailiff enforcement action which will continue without further warning.

 

any ideas anyone

 

There is nothing anywhere that says you have to deal with a Bailiff. As long as you stick with the plan you have given the Council all will be well - a note of caution though, due to delays in the banking system you should pay a few days earlier so that they receive their money on the due date.

 

As for the bailiff just totally ignore him and any demands they may make. You will already have incurred charges from them but as long as they do not obtain a levy on any goods the most they can charge you are the 2 statutory visit fees which total £42-50 - you will have to pay these. I can see they are going to tell you that they will enter by force, get a locksmith in your absence, have you arrested etc - all hot air and if you can try and record them doing this.

 

Eventually they will move on but in the meantime man the barricades.

 

PT


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have they actually told you what is now the council tax balance (after you made the last payment) and how much they think they are entitled to enforce? I think this is a "how dare you not pay my extortionate fee's" letter, ignore them and carry on making regular payments direct to the Council, keep doors and windows locked and if they turn up refuse to speak with them.

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the balance is £550 and their charges are £24.00 so far. i think there may be a problem as they have spealt my partners name wrong so am trying to contact council to see if that will make them take debt back, anyone know if this will affect the liability order?


I won £5289 heres how

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/40703-saint-luco-natwest.html

 

 

ITS NOT WHETHER YOU WON OR LOST, BUT HOW YOU PLAY THE GAME THAT MATTERS. ( OBVIOUSLY A LOSER THEN):D :D :D

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the balance is £550 and their charges are £24.00 so far. i think there may be a problem as they have spealt my partners name wrong so am trying to contact council to see if that will make them take debt back, anyone know if this will affect the liability order?

 

On the basis of probabilities a slight spelling mistake will make no difference as it is assumed they have the right person eg

Partners name Mr Wright

On forms it comes as Mr Right or Mr Write, usually taken to be OK but if it comes as: Mr Smith then that is totally different.

 

PT


Please consider making a small donation to help keep this site running

 

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be very very careful where you park your car if the bailiff cant get in to your home to levy they will levy your car so keep it well away from the house is the car on finance

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i got a bank loan for my car, i do need this for work as there is no public transport to where i work also i start at 05.00 so need it, also since i had a heart attack 2 years ago i struggle to walk any distance, so a walk to the station is out of the question


I won £5289 heres how

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/40703-saint-luco-natwest.html

 

 

ITS NOT WHETHER YOU WON OR LOST, BUT HOW YOU PLAY THE GAME THAT MATTERS. ( OBVIOUSLY A LOSER THEN):D :D :D

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Are you registered as disabled and do you claim any allowances eg disability living allowance. Are you waiting to have surgery to sort out your heart condition...if so you may be classed as a "vunerable person"

wd


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no not registered and no allowances, the reason i cant walk far is a thrombosis in the leg i am waiting for surgery to deal with that, whilst i have a heart disease, the drugs control that. but i cant get to work without the car and as i struggle to walk far i cant hide it very far away


I won £5289 heres how

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/40703-saint-luco-natwest.html

 

 

ITS NOT WHETHER YOU WON OR LOST, BUT HOW YOU PLAY THE GAME THAT MATTERS. ( OBVIOUSLY A LOSER THEN):D :D :D

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no not registered and no allowances, the reason i cant walk far is a thrombosis in the leg i am waiting for surgery to deal with that, whilst i have a heart disease, the drugs control that. but i cant get to work without the car and as i struggle to walk far i cant hide it very far away

 

I am sorry to hear of your illness

 

HOWEVER...it would apear that your circumsrtances are classed as "vulnerable" according to the National Standards for Enforcement Agents and accordingly consideration shoulf therefore be given for the bailiff company to return the debt back to the local authority.

 

You need to ensure that a letter is send by e-mail to the company TODAY.

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I am sorry to hear of your illness

 

HOWEVER...it would apear that your circumsrtances are classed as "vulnerable" according to the National Standards for Enforcement Agents and accordingly consideration shoulf therefore be given for the bailiff company to return the debt back to the local authority.

 

You need to ensure that a letter is send by e-mail to the company TODAY.

 

have you a link please


I won £5289 heres how

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/40703-saint-luco-natwest.html

 

 

ITS NOT WHETHER YOU WON OR LOST, BUT HOW YOU PLAY THE GAME THAT MATTERS. ( OBVIOUSLY A LOSER THEN):D :D :D

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no not registered and no allowances, the reason i cant walk far is a thrombosis in the leg i am waiting for surgery to deal with that, whilst i have a heart disease, the drugs control that. but i cant get to work without the car and as i struggle to walk far i cant hide it very far away

did you know you can claim for disability allowance if you have got a heart condition and still keep working my uncle had a heart attack a few years ago and he has claimed it and is still working thought this might be of some help to you....

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Hi Saint, I would certainly expect both your heart condition and thrombosis would be classed as serious. The following is from the national Guidelines for Bailiffs [i don't have a linky thing but google if you so desire]:

 

Those who might be considered vulnerable include the following:

the elderly;

people with a disability;

the seriously ill;

the recently bereaved;

single parent families;

pregnant women;

unemployed people; and,

those who have obvious difficulty in understanding, speaking or reading English.

 

You could write to your local council informing them of this and request that the debt is taken back. They should be aware of the guidelines and do so. [Amusingly, the Bailiff should recognise you as vulnerable and notify the court/council accordingly. I wonder if any actually do?]Alternatively, the Ministry for Justice recommends that you apply to the appropriate Magistrates Court for a re-hearing.

 

Don't be put off by the word 'Guidelines'. These are the standards Bailiffs should work to and any council seeking best practice would recognise this.

 

Rae

Edited by RaeUK
typoo

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have spoken to the senior recovery assistant at the council, he has agreed to call off the bailiffs for 20 days to allow me to get evidence of my illness to him and whyte & co. also i will try to arrange a loan with my employer to pay the bill in full. thanks everyone for their help


I won £5289 heres how

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/40703-saint-luco-natwest.html

 

 

ITS NOT WHETHER YOU WON OR LOST, BUT HOW YOU PLAY THE GAME THAT MATTERS. ( OBVIOUSLY A LOSER THEN):D :D :D

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have spoken to the senior recovery assistant at the council, he has agreed to call off the bailiffs for 20 days to allow me to get evidence of my illness to him and whyte & co. also i will try to arrange a loan with my employer to pay the bill in full. thanks everyone for their help

 

Good luck and fingers crossed for you.

 

PT


Please consider making a small donation to help keep this site running

 

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So pleased to hear that, Saint. I hope all goes well for you and do keep us posted. :)

 

Rae

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last update for you, have seen the doctor and am getting a letter to give to the council, went to see my boss, the tax will be paid tomorrow morning also when i saw the doctoor she said this has gone on long enough and has got me an appiontment with a vascular surgeon before christmas, so hopefully an operation soon after. once again thank you all for the brilliant advice and support given

 

luco


I won £5289 heres how

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/40703-saint-luco-natwest.html

 

 

ITS NOT WHETHER YOU WON OR LOST, BUT HOW YOU PLAY THE GAME THAT MATTERS. ( OBVIOUSLY A LOSER THEN):D :D :D

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Good news saint - ha! Who'd have thought a brush with your friendly neighbourhood bailiff would help you get a quicker appointment for surgery? Now that's what I call a result.

Good luck

Rae

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