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islington resident

when is a bus lane not a bus lane ?

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Hi

We received a PCN dated approx 16-10-2009 referring to an alleged offence dated 19-01-2009 ( yes 9 months old ) the alleged offence was

34J Being in a bus lane

Their photo of the vehicle clearly shows people unloading and while this is a bus lane there is a single yellow line with an adjacent sign saying no loading 7-10am and 4-7pm the photo is timed at approx 11am ( ie you may unload – no ? )

We responded by email with photos of the road and signage to receive a response that the blue bus lane signs count and the others don’t, we were told there was no point responding we should wait for an enforcement notice.

The blue bus lane signs do state bus lane 7am – 7pm.

Islington council have now issued a £120 enforcement notice that goes up to £180 if we don’t respond

Should we pay or fight on

bus lane.jpg

sign close up.jpg

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Hello and Welcome, islington resident.

 

I'll move this thread to the appropriate Forum.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.


 
 

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It would be helpful to see the Bus Lane signage too... and its declared hours of operation.

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I would suggest this has been served out of time.

 

The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007 Regulation 10 (4):

 

(4) Subject to paragraph (6), a regulation 10 penalty charge notice may not be served later than the expiration of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which, according to a record produced by an approved device, or information given by a civil enforcement officer, the contravention to which the penalty charge notice relates occurred (in these Regulations called “the 28-day period”).

(5) Paragraph (6) applies where—

(a) within 14 days of the appropriate date the enforcement authority has requested the Secretary of State to supply the relevant particulars in respect of the vehicle involved in the contravention and those particulars have not been supplied before the expiration of the 28-day period;

(b) an earlier regulation 10 penalty charge notice relating to the same contravention has been cancelled under regulation 23(5)©; or

© an earlier regulation 10 penalty charge notice relating to the same contravention has been cancelled under regulation 5 of the Representations and Appeals Regulations.

(6) Where this paragraph applies, notwithstanding the expiration of the 28-day period, an enforcement authority shall continue to be entitled to serve a regulation 10 penalty charge notice—

(a) in a case falling within paragraph (5)(a), for a period of six months beginning with the appropriate date; or

(b) in a case falling within paragraph (5)(b) or ©, for a period of 4 weeks beginning with the appropriate date.

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MB may be correct, when did you contest this? And as Buzby asks; can you post the blue signs up which should be before and at the start of the bus lane.


Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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when it ends:D


PGH7447

 

 

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I would suggest this has been served out of time.

 

The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007 Regulation 10 (4):

 

Sadly I don't think these apply to bus lane contraventions.

However, I do think that there has been a shameful delay here.

I'll look up the regs and come back.

 

EDIT:

London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003

 

6

Limitation on service of penalty charge notice .(1)

Subject to the provisions of this section, no penalty charge notice may be served under this Act after the expiry of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention or failure to comply ocurred.

 

Unless of course I have missed something!

Edited by Bernie_the_Bolt

********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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The blue signs at each end of the bus lane clearly state that it is a bus lane from 7am-7pm monday to Saturday

but

Islington Council have a sign stating loading and unloading times and there is a single yellow line only.

 

Our vehicle was stationary and unloading for less than ten minutes - as we have done many times over the last sixteen years, in accordance with the adjacent signage which effectively states we may do so between 10am and 4pm, if not why dio Islington council display this sign. The enforcement notice is from Islington Council

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Sadly I don't think these apply to bus lane contraventions.

However, I do think that there has been a shameful delay here.

I'll look up the regs and come back.

 

EDIT:

London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003

 

 

 

Unless of course I have missed something!

 

Bus Lanes are LLA 1996

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The blue signs at each end of the bus lane clearly state that it is a bus lane from 7am-7pm monday to Saturday

but

Islington Council have a sign stating loading and unloading times and there is a single yellow line only.

 

Our vehicle was stationary and unloading for less than ten minutes - as we have done many times over the last sixteen years, in accordance with the adjacent signage which effectively states we may do so between 10am and 4pm, if not why dio Islington council display this sign. The enforcement notice is from Islington Council

 

What type of vehicle were you in and what were the goods involved?


Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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We have lots of these Time Plates within Bus Lanes in Manchester, one

in particular that springs to mind is on Oxford Road. The Bus Lane is

clearly signed and compliant (IMO) and has operational hours of 7am

to 10am and 4pm to 7pm but posted No Loading Time Plates of 8am

to 10am and 4pm to 6pm so I too would be interested to see the

outcome of this because I am using the Time Plate to unload between

7am and 8am.


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Bus Lanes are LLA 1996

 

Explains why I was feeling uncomfortable as I had in the back of my mind that there wasn't a statutory time limit!

 

I'd still appeal on the basis of misleading signage - no breach of bus lane order.

Excessively late service of docs - failiure to treat motorist fairly and therefore penalty exceeds the applicable amount.


********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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