Council Tax Help us put Rossendales OUT OF BUSINESS

[jimbo45]

Hi everyone

 

I might have mis-understood something here - but from what I've gleaned from these threads is that without an actual Court order Rossendales have ZERO power to collect ANYTHING AT ALL if you refuse either to let them in or deal with them in any way whatsoever.

 

In any case if the Bailiff can't get in for 90 days whatever the circumstances doesn't the "Nullo Bono" qualification apply wherby the debt must be sent back to the body that hired the bailiff's in the first place.

 

Please note - you DO eventually have to pay council tax or get it paid via benefits etc so the Council Tax problem will still remain until some arrangement is in force.

 

Is there some template we can use to do the following

 

1) Quote "Chapter and verse" the legal situation of Rossendales being able to collect council tax -- IMO without proper legal authority if they turn up they can be considered as "trespassers" on your property and you have a reasonable right in any case to "Repel Borders" and certainly the right to refuse to deal with them at all.

 

2) Quote said authority back to the local councils --saying you are prepared to deal with arrears but are NOT prepared to deal with Rossendales under ANY circumstances without a valid court order.

 

3) Publish as much as possible on the web the limitation of what Bailiff's can actually do - they AFAIK only get their money by intimidation, lying and bullying tactics. If Rossendales start failing to collect fees from unpaid council tax they will go out of business -- and GOOD RIDDANCE.

 

Love to get a website up and running just dealing with Rossendales.

 

I hate these people EVEN MORE than DCA's who are also the **** of the earth - but at least the situation with DCA's are a bit more clear cut.

 

Bailiff's just prey on the unfortunate when it comes to things like Council tax and Councils should be ASHAMED from using them.

 

Finally - to the "Legal Eagles" on this extremely helpful Forum

 

If Rossendales are making demands for money without legal authority to do so is there any chance of an "Extortion" charge being levied against them or at the very least a "Harrassment" charge.

 

Hopefully to all caggers year 2010 ROSSENDALE's R.I.P.

 

I Hate that firm with a vengeance.

 

Cheers

jimbo

Edited December 6, 2009 by jimbo45

[Eseehcnhoj]

 

Love to get a website up and running just dealing with Rossendales.

 

I hate these people EVEN MORE than DCA's who are also the **** of the earth -

 

Before you start a website, you need to understand the remification of the Defamation Act 1996, and there the case of Godfrey vs Demon Internet Ltd.

 

It can only be hosted in the American State of California, currently the only place where a webmaster and his webhosting provider is immune from civil proceedings for defamatory or libellous content published on a website.

[jotty]

Jimbo, I thouroughly agree with your post, I have had 24hrs now to think over my dealings with another of these companies, Marstons, and the lies and legal rubbish their bailiff spouted to me yesterday.

Whilst none of us intended to avoid our lawful debts there are many reasons why some of us find ourselves in dificulty.

I fail to understand that when someone makes a reasonable offer of payment, the council then employs these people at our cost to collect debts at excessive rates.

 

I to feel it is time for someone more learned that I on this wonderful sute to prepare a standard reply based on the law and not bullying tactics.

[jimbo45]

Before you start a website, you need to understand the remification of the Defamation Act 1996, and there the case of Godfrey vs Demon Internet Ltd.

 

It can only be hosted in the American State of California, currently the only place where a webmaster and his webhosting provider is immune from civil proceedings for defamatory or libellous content published on a website.

 

Hi there

The site would be based on ACTUAL letters etc that they themselves have written, Youtube recordings where possible of harassing and threatening action and sound legal advice.

 

I have a few colleagues in such diverse parts as Albania - The City of Tirana is quite greatful for anybody - especially foreigners doing business - and I can't see a UK body being able to shut down an Albanian website.

 

The powers of the Internet.

 

BTW Rossendales are threatening me with a 100GBP charge if they turn up with a Van

 

I told them in no uncertain terms (by letter) to EAT S--T AND DIE and couldn't care if they came back with a Pantechnicon (A HUGE Lorry / Trailer Vehicle) as they are only allowed to charge 24 GBP or so for a Visit - if they can get in in any case. I'm waiting also to hear back from the council as I've sent them 30% of the arrears.

 

They even said they had tried previous visits -- LIE as I've been off work for the last 2 months and in any case I was applying for Council Tax benefit (rejected - but then before Bailiff's surely the council need to send what I owe - think it's around 550 GBP).

 

I'm NOT PAYING ROSSENDALES A PENNY and I don't think that without a court order they can do anything about it either.

 

I've also getting a spread in the local paper about waste of taxpayers money --should be good just before elections are due.

 

I've had enough at being trodden on by Banks, Finance companies, Council Jobsworths etc etc.

 

They bend over backwards when you are "in clover" but are the first to tread on you when things sometimes through no fault of your own) start going wrong.

 

Most Caggers aren't feckless spendthrifts - we've usually got into debt because on the whole unavoidable circumstances have changed our situations such as redundancy - jobs being moved to India etc etc.

 

What I think irritates us even more is how excessive charges often on trivial amounts of debt (I had another post where Yorkshire water took me to County court for 80 GBP can you believe -- with 85 GBP costs) hurt people who often are in serious trouble far more than most while the Banks have been enjoying unvelievable subsidies from the taxpayers and are STILL paying out HUGE bonuses.

 

Anyway "The Natives are getting restless" and I'm going all the way with Rossendales at whatever cost.

 

Cheers

jimbo

Edited December 6, 2009 by jimbo45

[FairPlay77]

 

"I have a few colleagues in such diverse parts as Albania - The City of Tirana is quite greatful for anybody - especially foreigners doing business - and I can't see a UK body being able to shut down an Albanian website.

 

BEFORE you do anything you have be sure of the legal ramifications. This is essential in order to protect yourself.

 

"they are only allowed to charge 24 GBP or so for a Visit - if they can get in in any case."

 

In fact it's £24.50 for the first visit and £18 if a second visit takes place.

 

"I'm NOT PAYING ROSSENDALES A PENNY and I don't think that without a court order they can do anything about it either."

 

The council will already have taken your case to court. That is why they have hired the bailiffs. However, there is no law to say that you have to pay the bailiffs. You are perfectly entitled to pay the council instead and to tell the bailiff to sling their hook.

 

"I've also getting a spread in the local paper about waste of taxpayers money --should be good just before elections are due."

 

That's a good idea. Why not go the whole hog and contact your local radio and TV stations if you think you have a strong enough story for them to broadcast?

 

 

"Anyway "The Natives are getting restless" and I'm going all the way with Rossendales at whatever cost."

 

I wish you luck, but do make sure that you've done your research first and that that you are legally covered.

[Eseehcnhoj]

Youtube recordings where possible of harassing and threatening action

 

Start your collection with this hapless Rossendale bailiff.

 

I have a few colleagues in such diverse parts as Albania - The City of Tirana is quite greatful for anybody - especially foreigners doing business - and I can't see a UK body being able to shut down an Albanian website.

 

Rossendales arent the sort to hire MI6 agents to track down servers in Tirana and cut wires on the side of their buildings. Just use a host in California, Globat com, cheap fast and use it for anything you like provided you dont undermine national security or use it for organised crime.

 

BTW Rossendales are threatening me with a 100GBP charge if they turn up with a Van

 

The law doesnt provide for it, and you have no legal obigation to pay £100. its £24.50 but I dont think the legislation decides what mode of transport the bailiff must use when making that visit.

[jimbo45]

Hi all

Thank god an election is coming up -- I don't want to get too involved in Politics here apart from cases where the issue IS 100% relevant to these Forums.

 

A proposal is still in place to allow Bailiff's to forceably enter your home for "Civil debt" cases -- i.e those where they have no powers currently and also to give them increased powers under the Law. This was due to be reviewed and probably passed early in 2010.

 

(Scotland has its own Legislation - but Scots MP's can still foist this on us English residents -- that's another Issue however for another Forum).

 

Judging by the misuse, bullying tactics and downright lies etc that Bailiff's seem to use NOW this has got to be resisted at all costs.

 

The timing of a General Election has fortunately scuppered this for the moment.

 

I can't tell people what to vote in the next election - but just remember before casting your Ballot that it is "The People's Party" that has got this legislation waiting in the wings - the same Party that gave us "Charging Orders" which mean that in practice there is no such thing as an "Unsecured Debt" anymore whilst throwing trillions of pounds at proflagate Banks that probably helped get a lot of people into debt in the first place by totally mis-selling their wares.

 

Nearer the time Quiz your candidates on this issue and vote accordingly.

 

Please don't turn this into a General Political thread -- just be aware that changes in legislation are pending wherby the small protection we have now from Bailiff's can disappear if we let it pass.

 

Cheers

jimbo

Edited December 6, 2009 by jimbo45

[jimbo45]

Hi all

 

I've got a Solicitor friend looking at an ongoing tiff I have with Rossendales.

 

True I owed some Council Tax - was around 530 GBP.

 

Rossendales Bill seems to have added another 120 GBP (before "Van charges" - but haven't got a breakdown of the Bill --will get that from the Council.

 

I applied for Council Tax benefit -- I'm a self employed contractor so money is irregular -- added to which I'm 64 (also tried Pension Credit -- refused) -- amazing I pay tax most of my life and when I NEED benefit it's refused whereas some of the stories I read about in the press --but that's another Issue.

 

Anyway Council REFUSED benefit but never sent a demand for the outstanding bill.

 

Next I get a typical "Threatogram" from Rossendales saying No further warning, £110 GBP if Van turns up" etc - the usual B/S.

 

So a) Council have NOT followed guidelines on letting me know what the arrears of Council tax was - but went straight for the bailiffs.

 

b) The Bailiff's have said they tried previous communications --TOTAL LIE as i've been in my house off work for over 3 months and have VIDEO EVIDENCE of who calls and who doesn't plus logs of phone calls received.

 

c) so in any case the 90 day BONO NULLO rule applies wherby the Bailiff MUST return the debt to the council. - Council have NOT sent a bill within the last 90 days.

 

d) The £110 "Van Fee" is totally ILLEGAL (and this is what I'm hoping to get them on)

 

e) I'm going to kick up Hull City Council's back with wanting (and publicising) why they employ people when they (the Council) KNOWINGLY know their "Subcontractors" in this case Rossendales are breaking the Law.

 

I am NOT trying to avoid council tax - I'm quite happy to make an arrangement - but I don't have a regular income as anybody who'se self employed can testify.

 

Don't you HATE all this Baliff stuff etc.

 

Some of us DO have problems from time to time -- but I feel the action of these DCA'S. Bailiff's, Courts etc etc is far far worse now than it ever was in the time of "That dreadful Lady" as others have called her and has now gone COMPLETELY OVER the top and as a normal person who has NEVER demonstrated in his life I've decided ENOUGH IS ENOUGH and I really am past caring now if I have to do jail time or not -- at least I'll get SKY TV and 3 meals a day.

 

I really am getting HEARTLY SICK of being kicked, pushed, shoved around by jobsworths etc -- if this was France and this happened I'd have half the Port of Calais blockaded by French pals.

 

Anyway I'm NOT paying these a--h-les 1 PENNY - and unless they come with the Police and a proper Court Order my friends (big ex Rugby League players) are perfectly prepared to "Repel Boarders" - These THUGS need a taste of their OWN medicine back and get back to the REAL PLANET.

 

If the Council refuse to accept back council tax that's THEIR and not MY problem as I am not REFUSING to pay the TAX just the bovine people who threaten innocent householders under the guise of "Bailiff Tax collection".

 

I thought we'd moved on a bit from Edward I's time but obviously we haven't.

 

Cheers from an extremely annoyed

jimbo

Edited December 7, 2009 by jimbo45

[kurvaface]

if this was France and this happened I'd have half the Port of Calais blockaded by French pals.

 

If this was France mate, your council tax would be around £200 for a nice pile in the countryside and you would get damn good service for your money:)

 

By the way, did you have a question?

[jimbo45]

Hi there

Hopefully pointing out to others that things like "Van charges" etc etc are totally ILLEGAL and should not be paid.

 

Also "Added Costs" apart from the statutory 24.50 GBP Ist attendenance and 18 GBP subsequent are not allowed for Council Tax collection.

 

So many people pay these without question --it's wrong --DON'T PAY THESE.

 

Also point out to the council that they shouldn't employ people who are breaking the law --there's enough info on Rossendales to ensure that no Council should EVER employ these "people" again.

 

If I get anywhere with the Extortion / Harassement stuff I'll post so others can do it too.

 

Cheers

jimbo

[kurvaface]

Good luck with your battle...Like you, jobsworths really wind me up!

[hallowitch]

unfortunately its not just Rossendales that charge fees they shouldn't

a lot of bailiff company's add the 1st&2nd visit fee to the debt as soon as its passed to them

I wish you well on your journey and will look forward to reading your updates

[eliza2705]

Hi there,

I too have had terrible problems with Rossendales and have filed a formal complaint with Cornwall Council. He tried to charge me £110 for a "van visit". He was also aggressive and threatened my partner, who was simply asking him to leave our property ... he said he'd "thwack him one if he didn't move!" Nice. The bailiff in question has had his certificate revoked but reapplied using a different spelling of both forename and surname in order to get a new certificate. This info was given to me by the CAB. He threatened to break into our house by getting a locksmith, complete nonsense of course but it is a very frightening situation to be in.

 

Good luck with your battle. I'll post when I have heard anything from the Council, it's been 3 weeks now and no correspondence received from them.

[tottys]

i to have had a ridiculous amount added to my account with the bailiffs but its a different company to you have tried asking if the are legit both the council and the bailiff say they are but how anyone can say that £225 for a van visit (when it was just a bailiff in his van nothing removed just left a letter with me then totally denied seeing me) can call this fair and legal is beyond me...

[mkb]

I have problems too (but not Rossendales) and started a thread earlier today but no replies yet

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/237060-bailiffs-fees-unpaid-pcn.html

[emulife]

jimbo wish we read this before we had all our dealings with the ****!!!!!!!! the cheeky buggers even turned up at hospital while my wife was in labour this was buy one called matthew fanshawe. and now we are playing with stepen curnow which is a complete arigent t@$t.

[emulife]

would help in any way to shut these down. from what im getting and understanding is they are a waste of time. and we are thinking about dragging them through the papers and may be to radio

[F_DCAs]

emulife - It's Curnow in that Youtube clip.

[emulife]

yes thank you I saw that. I am so glade I was out when he came around. My wife would of been really frightened by him.

[tomtubby]

Can you please be aware that the "court order" that the bailiff has that enables him to enforce unapid council tax is a "Liability Order" and this would have been issued to the bailiff company by the Magistrates Court on the request of your local council.

 

You should have received notification from the council of the date of a hearing at the Magistartes Court.

[jimbo45]

Hi there

1) This does IN NO WAY empower a Bailiff to forceably enter your home or make excessive charges not prescribed by Law including it seems the "ever present £110 Van Fees".

 

Enforcement procedures STILL at least for the moment have to comply with strict legal protocol in the manner of collection methods.

 

2) You (at present) do NOT have to even SPEAK to the Bailiff and certainly you don't have to pay THEM anything. -- a COUNCIL MUST eventually take back the Council tax - and even failing that you could offer to lodge some money with the Court.

 

3) A properly constituted Court Enforcement order needs to be issued before any "Forced seisure" of property etc etc occurs. Just because Body A has got a court order that Body B owes money doesn't mean that Body A can send the dogs round to collect and use any methods they like to ensure collection.

 

For Parking, Income / VAT tax then the Bailiff does have a right - currently Council Tax is still a Civil debt and has to go through due process--

 

however Councils often try and "short circuit" the process by sending round the Bailiff's without really understanding what they are actually doing or hoping to scare their "hapless Victims" into submission.

 

Cheers

jimbo

[eliza2705]

We definitely need to do something about this company "Rossendales", I doubt the councils employing them are even aware of what decidedly dodgy and underhand methods they use. It is a total waste of resources to employ these "people". As someone else said here, Jimbo I think, they are preying on people who are in dire circumstances, financially and to place this added pressure is disgusting. What is this? Feudal Britain!

[hallowitch]

you can be sure the council know what is going on

they just don't care they are getting there money and they don't care how they get it

[jimbo45]

Hi all

A little more looking at Bailiff Law and Civil debt it seems most Councils when using Bailiff's ignore THIS provision .................#

 

Bailiffs

 

Your council can send bailiffs to your home to seize property to sell. The money raised goes towards paying your debt, plus costs. The billing authority must send a letter two weeks before the bailiff’s first visit stating how much money you owe under the Liability Order.

 

 

........................

 

From what I've seen and read on these Forums and elsewhere it would appear that this particular obligation is often ignored or forgotten about by Local Councils - so if like me you are in a position where the Council is refusing to take any payments you can add this also to cases where a Bailiff is acting illegally.

 

Hope this might be of use with Recalcitrant councils who just rely on THUGS to do their business while short circuiting full due legal processes.

 

Cheers

jimbo

[jimbo45]

Hi all

I can't believe what I'm reading in these Forums -- No I DON'T mean that people here are telling lies -- but the fact that the horror stories I'm reading on these threads can and DOES happen in 21st Century Britain where people who probably can least afford it are being threatened with what can only be described as extortionate Fees and often dubious practices at best if not downright illegal at the worst.

 

I thought Feudal Britain was part of History -- obviously isn't as it seems it's alive and kicking.

 

Can ANYBODY who is legally qualified please state PRECISELY the conditions and procedures that a Council has to follow before they are allowed to "Call their dogs" in - for example is it a LEGAL requirement that they must

 

a) obtain a Liability Order

b) before enforcing it must send a 14 day notice of intended action.

 

c) There is also a Nullo Bono provision in that after a period (90 days) the DEBT must be passed back to the person who obtained the Liability order -- in this case The council. When is the 90 day period reckoned from -- The date of the liability order, Date of a Bailiff's "First alleged Visit" - which they often apparently LIE about, or a date when the usral typical nonsensical Threatogram arrives threatening £110 "Van Fee" etc.

 

d) A COUNCIL is REQUIRED by LAW to collect Council tax - so is there any statute we can use to FORCE the council to take the debt back apart from sitting it out until "Nullo Bono" applies.

 

e) if we are unfortunate enough to actually have to deal with a Bailiff - might be because a visitor / child etc accidently let them in - can we ask them to show us the actual Court authority (i.e the Liability order) before allowing them to go about their grisly business and if they don't have it can we eject them forthwith. Hopefully this will NEVER apply if you DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES LET THESE WRTECHES IN.

 

If we can ONCE AND FOR ALL put an end to this GHASTLY often ILLEGAL method Councils use for collecting Council tax then lets go for the juggler - especially now it seems Rossendales have employed at least ONE person - may be more who were "Struck off" the Bailiff's list but apparently was re-appointed again using a False name.

 

PLEASE KEEP POSTING YOUR EXPERIENCES WITH COUNCIL TAX BAILIFF PROBLEMS - ESPECILLY WITH ROSSENDALES.

 

Rossendales seems to crop up very regularly on the Caggers Forums now so maybe we can finally chase them out of business once and for all.

 

Without wanting to inject any Politics here - but I can't help getting REALLY MAD when I hear Politicians of all Parties saying they will do their utmost to prevent "public Services" from suffering during the Recession.

 

If using Bailiff's is a Public service then let's get rid of the WHOLE KYBOSH.

 

Anyway if any Lawyer can reply to the questions I've posed we can then go to the next level which is to start Naming and Shaming individual Councils who are using people of "questionable background" to carry out their work.

 

I'm currently in a dispute with Kingston Upon Hull City council over their refusal to take back a council tax bill --expect to be playing a great game of "Letter Tennis" with them soon over this issue.

 

BUT I AM NOT EVER PAYING ANYTHING TO ROSSENDALES NOW OR EVER.

 

 

Cheers

jimbo

Edited December 9, 2009 by jimbo45