Car Insurance Scams - Staged Car Accidents

[mattaius]

Dear Consumer Action Group and fellow Members,

 

I tried to find a contact number for CAG to check where I should correctly start a new thread, but could only find their accountants J Khan, so I will start by apologising if this is in the wrong place!!

 

Yesterday I was very carefully reversing out of a parking bay at my local Asda supermarket, and I checked my mirrors constantly... the usual... I'm a cautious driver, I'm 24, never been involved in an accident since I passed my test when I was 17... anyway, I noticed behind me was a forward facing BMW with two Asian men who were looking at me - I thought nothing of it, until I carefully crept out and then heard the car engine rev, and he pulled out at full pelt, I stopped and a second later he smashed into the back of me. Of course he blamed it on me and said I didn't see him, he phoned the police immediately to report it, then phoned two of his friends who were just around the corner, who two minutes later came up to me verbally threatening to ''kick my (Edit) head in'' for no reason.

 

The police turned up and had to calm the two lads down and one police officer took me to one side to ask me what happened, so I explained to her what actually happened, and then a lady who was parked a few cars down from myself told the police officer that she saw him rev his engine and drive into me purposely, so we took her details down as a witness, while this was happening, the two Asian lads who turned up were telling the police that I was being racist and saying they couldn't speak a word of English

 

Damage to the cars? Well my back bumper was already slightly cracked when I bought the car 2 weeks ago and there is only one or two slight scratches. The BMW again not much damage he just has a few scratches. My car was stationary when we shunted so that's why I'm guessing he has more damage to his car than I have to mine.

 

So anyway, as I've never been involved in anything like this I wanted to ask people who have suffered from the same experiences how the insurance companies resolved the issue, how long it took etc. I refuse to become the victim of an obvious [problem] - my only saving grace is the independent witness who told the police officers she saw what really happened - if it wasn't for her, I'd be buggered wouldn't I?

 

Many thanks and Kind Regards.

Edited December 11, 2009 by maroondevo52
Bypassing swear filter

[kurvaface]

I think the witness is your saving grace.

 

Your insurers will not be interested in the "Asian" issues.

 

What do your insurers say? What do the police say?

[WelshMam2009]

You're extremely lucky to have this witness.

 

I would ensure that you alert your insurance company to this lady's statement as they are all too aware of this [problem]. It is not the damage to the cars that is the issue but the third party claims for personal injury compensation.

[mattaius]

Well the police didn't say an awful lot really, one of them did mutter something under her breath about the two lads that showed up which I won't repeat, but they just told me to phone the insurance company and tell them he drove into me. They were very good actually and it did seem as though they could tell who was telling the truth but obviously they can't say anything. Can't the [problem] artist be prosecuted for fraud or something??

 

The insurers again, haven't said much, they just took all the details down and said I'll be contacted soon :-|

[Jan4a]

Hi

 

Not an expert or anything but did you see the reports on the news and in Manchester Evening News a couple of weeks ago? Insurance companies prosecuted people for deliberately running into the back of others on the big Stockport roundabout. They were doing whiplash claims for people that weren't even in the car. It was a massive [problem] and was uncovered when people working in offices on the roundabout noticed it was the same driver running into the back of people and reported it to Police. They put cameras on the roundabout and caught them at it.

 

Point is this happened fairly close to you so am sure both the Police and insurance company are very wise to it and will investigate this incident thoroughly.

 

Your witness will be a gift to them too!

 

Good luck.

[kurvaface]

Did you get pictures of your car? If not, get some as soon as possible and also of where the accident happened. You could also ask ASDA if they have cctv footage of the car park.

[mattaius]

Hiya thanks for your replies.

 

Yeah I do remember that, the leader of the group got a fair few years didn't he... funnily enough, he was from Bolton too!!

 

I've checked with Asda for any CCTV footage, they've checked but the incident wasn't caught. They've told me to speak to the car park owners who might have their own recordings but as of yet I haven't been able to get through to the right man.

 

Just after I posted my first reply on here, the wife of the man who crashed into me phoned me(the police told us not to contact each other ), and she said she has got a quote from a local garage and it isn't going to cost much to fix her car, so she asked me if we would just go our separate ways and not go through the insurance because both parties will deny liability. Hmm, if he was so adamant it was my fault then why wouldn't he want to go through the insurance?? Is she just being decent or does she know she'll lose?

 

I've already reported the claim to my insurance company anyway.

[Jan4a]

Maybe they're frightened because of the witness.

 

Wonder if the insurance will take their time to see if he puts whiplash claims in? Not sure how it works but I know you don't have to do it straightaway.

[kurvaface]

You should report that call to the police.

 

Perhaps you can do a SAR on the car park owner.

[mattaius]

And no I don't have any pictures, theres no damage to my car just a couple of scratches, the bumper was already cracked - the other guy I noticed did take pictures on his phone but I didn't see the point I admit I'm a bit inexperienced regarding insurance claims!!

[kurvaface]

Tke pictures asap.

 

The insurers will check that the damage on the vehicles is consistent with each other. Your scammy friends might try to claim for a wreck.

[WelshMam2009]

she asked me if we would just go our separate ways and not go through the insurance because both parties will deny liability.

 

Is she just being decent or does she know she'll lose?

 

I've already reported the claim to my insurance company anyway.

 

It's too risky not to report this incident to your Insurers and I'm glad to see you're being sensible about this.

 

All Insurers have a shared database and this incident will be recorded, regardless of the outcome. The third party is clearly familiar with this process and is not keen to get their name logged, especially when no pay out is likely.

[Mossycat]

Just after I posted my first reply on here, the wife of the man who crashed into me phoned me(the police told us not to contact each other ), and she said she has got a quote from a local garage and it isn't going to cost much to fix her car, so she asked me if we would just go our separate ways and not go through the insurance because both parties will deny liability. Hmm, if he was so adamant it was my fault then why wouldn't he want to go through the insurance?? Is she just being decent or does she know she'll lose?

 

 

NO SHE IS NOT BEING DECENT.

 

The fact is that they tried to engineer an accident to blame you but their plans have been scuppered by an independent witness. Tell her in no uncertain terms that you hold them responsible and you will be claiming off of them

 

The only reason they want this to go away quietly is because their plan to rip you/your insurers went wrong.

 

Advise your insurers of all the facts and then make sure they pay up, if the witness hadn't been there you can be damn sure they'd be trying to make you pay up.

 

Mossy

Edited December 7, 2009 by Mossycat

[INSURANCEGUY]

Agree with Mossy totally here.

 

with regards to prosecution- unlikely, insurers tend to target criminal gangs, not just individuals, although all of the third party's details (even telephone numbers) will be recorded on CUE (The claims and underwriting exchange) and HUNTER- which searches to match details on claims, so they may see immediately that the phone number for the claimant has appeared on several previous claims. Which in turn leads to the insurers uncovering a huge operation of fraud.

 

If they call again, I would suggest you direct them to their own insurer.

[mattaius]

Thanks again for your replies.

 

To be honest, I was going to just leave it, I'd prefer to have a quiet life and not have to go through all the crap... But, you've made me realise that you're bang on when you say if the independent witness wasn't there, they'd be claiming.

 

So I think I've made my mind up and I'll be pursuing the claim.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Matt

[Mossycat]

OK now think about everything it has cost you

 

1) Damage to your car, if you are comprehensive then your insurers will pay for that and then they'll claim it back from the other persons insurance, if you have an excess you have to claim that back direct

 

2) Whilst your car is in for repairs, you may need a hire car OR claim loss of use and general inconvenience

 

3) Out of pocket expenses, ie phone calls, time spent, postage, mileage etc, so keep a note of anything that you do and a log of phone calls

 

By claiming off of them you will notch a claim on their insurance which will be recorded (so if they are staging more accidents in future it will stand out that they are having above average accidents).

 

Also tell your insurers everything you have told this forum about the circumstances and your feelings that it was staged.

 

If you get stuck with anything post back and we'll help you

 

Now go get the con-merchants!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Mossy

[mattaius]

Hahaha top top man, thanks!!

[kurvaface]

And keep us updated:)

[mattaius]

I only have a run around Vauxhall Corsa which is hardly worth repairing, it has a crack in the bumper and a couple of scratches, but the crack was already there when I got the car a couple of weeks ago.

 

Because I'm only 24 and wanted to get a good insurance quote, I am fully comprehensive by the way, I have a voluntary excess of £600, and was told that I have young drivers excess aswell, £200, so I would have to pay £800 out of my own pocket to get the bumper fixed and I'm guessing it will take months to get that back! I am entitled to a courtesy car though as part of my policy while it's being fixed.

 

What benefit would there be when I tell the insurers I have spoken about this on CAG?

[kurvaface]

You don't have to tell them you have spoken to CAG, just tell them the same that you told us;)

[Mossycat]

What benefit would there be when I tell the insurers I have spoken about this on CAG?

 

I didn't mean mention CAG, what I meant was give your insurers all the information you have given us, because it's clear it was an attempted [problem] from your OP.

 

Mossy

[Mossycat]

Because I'm only 24 and wanted to get a good insurance quote, I am fully comprehensive by the way, I have a voluntary excess of £600, and was told that I have young drivers excess aswell, £200, so I would have to pay £800 out of my own pocket to get the bumper fixed and I'm guessing it will take months to get that back! I am entitled to a courtesy car though as part of my policy while it's being fixed.

 

 

OK try this

 

Get some quotes for the repairs, send them to the other party and explain you don't have the money to get the repairs done first and tell them you want a cash in lieu of repair settlement (that way they send you the money and you decide if and when to get the repairs done). State in the letter that you have an independent witness who confirms you were stationary and that they are totally liable for the damage and associated costs.

 

If it's just a bumper then maybe the [problem] artists will pay it rather than go through their insurers, which would be poetic justice.

 

And add on what it's cost you in out of pocket expenses (phone calls etc)

 

Mossy

[honeybee13]

Hi Matt. Good for you, I think you're doing the right thing by pursuing this. Who knows, you might stop someone else suffering the same trick.

 

I've followed all the posts on this thread and the story is appalling.

Good luck.

[mattaius]

I reported the incident to my insurers, Zurich Connect, just an hour or so after the incident, and I followed it up first thing Monday morning (7.12.09), and apparently Zurich have appointed DAS Group as the legal team who will be dealing with it. However, it is now Friday and DAS Group still haven't received the details of my claim yet. They asked me to speak to Zurich again to get them to re-send the details, which I did yesterday, but still nothing has been set up on the DAS Group systems

 

Anybody know if it should take this long just for the damn company to even know about the claim??

 

Many thanks,

 

Matt.

[kurvaface]

Be patient - they can drag a bit. If you ring them up each day to bump it along that's all you can do really.