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    • I've inserted their poc re:your.. 1 ..they did send 2 paploc's  3. neither the agreement nor default is mentioned in their 2.        
    • Hi Guys, i read a fair few threads and saw a lot of similar templates being used. i liked this one below and although i could elaborate on certain things (they ignored my CCA and sent 2 PAPs etc etc) , am i right in that at this stage keep it short? If thats the case i cant see what i need to add/change about this one   1)   the defendant entered into a consumer credit act 1974 regulated agreements vanquis under account reference xxxxxxx 2)   The defendant failed to maintain the required payment, arrears began to accrue 3)   The agreement was later assigned to the claimant on 29 September 2017 and notice given to the defendant 4)   Despite repeated requests for payment, the sum of 2247.91 remains due outstanding And the claimant claims a)The said sum of £2247.91 b)The interest pursuant to S 69 county courts act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum from the date of issue, accruing at a daily rate of £xxxx, but limited to one year,  being £xxxx c)Costs   Defence:   The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim vague and are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.   1. The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC ( Pre Action Protocol) Failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017.It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.   2. The Claimant claims £2247.91 is owed under a regulated consumer credit account under reference xxxxxxx. I do not recall the precise details or agreement and have sought verification from the claimant and the claimants solicitor by way of a CPR 31.14 and section 78 request who are yet to fully comply.   3. Paragraph 2 is denied. I am unable to recall the precise details of the alleged agreement or any default notice served in breach of any defaulted payments. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied.The Defendant contends that no notice of assignment pursuant to s.136 of the Law of Property Act & s.82 A of the CCA1974 has ever been served by the Claimant as alleged or at all.   5. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of assignment/balance/breach requested by CPR 31. 14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:   (a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and (b) show and evidence any cause of action and service of a Default Notice or termination notice; and © show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;   6. After receiving this claim I requested by way of a CPR 31.14 request and a section 78 request for copies of any documents referred to within the Claimants' particulars to establish what the claim is for. To date they have failed to comply to my CPR 31.14 request and also my section 78 request and remain in default with regards to this request.   7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.   8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.   9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.  
    • i understand. Just be aware I am prepared to take some risks 😉
    • Thanks Tnook,   Bear with us while we discuss this behind the scenes - we want you to win just as much as you do but we want to find the right balance between maximising your claim without risking too much in court fees, and in possible court costs awarded to the defendant bank.
    • Tell your son and think on this. He can pay the £160  and have no further worries from them. If he read POFA  Scedule 4 he would find out that if he went to Court and lost which is unlikely on two counts at least [1] they don't do Court and 2] they know they would lose in Court] the most he would be liable to pay them is £100 or whatever the amount on the sign says. He is not liable for the admin charges as that only applies to the driver-perhaps.If he kept his nerve, he would find out that he does not owe them a penny and that applies to the driver as well. But we do need to see the signage at the entrance to the car park and around the car park as well as any T&Cs on the payment meter if there is one. He alone has to work out whether it is worth taking a few photographs to help avoid paying a single penny to these crooks as well as receiving letters threatening him with Court , bailiffs  etc trying to scare him into paying money he does not owe. They know they cannot take him to Court. They know he does not owe them a penny. But they are hoping he does not know so he pays them. If he does decide to pay, tell him to wait as eventually as a last throw of the dice they play Mister Nice Guy and offer a reduction. Great. Whatever he pays them it will be far more than he owes as their original PCN is worthless. Read other threads where our members have been ticketed for not having a permit. [We know so little about the situation that we do not know if he has a permit and forgot to display it. ]
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dizzyblonde1966

Can Howard Cohen reconstruct a DN on OC headed paper?

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Following on from an ongoing case,(but seperate thread for a specific point re DN )

 

Can Howard Cohen reconstruct a DN on original creditor headed notepaper?

 

Cohens issued a court claim against me, apart from the application form with no prescribed terms and innefective NOA, they also in their sworn witness statement included a DN, however it was not a copy of the original as i had the original and the date and amounts were different .

 

So i put this in my amended defence and pointed out to the court that Cohens were trying to mislead the court etc

They have now replied to the court and admitted the DN they supplied was a reconstructed dn from info given to them from the original creditor,

But are now trying to turn it by claiming i have got the original dn so proves it has been served on me etc from original creditor even though i neither admitted it or denied it in my original defence and put them to strict prroof etc,

 

 

I have spoken to the original creditor and they said they have only ever issued one dn,

so it would appear that cohens have knocked their own dn up on ge headed notepaper, is this allowed?

 

The case should be safe anyway as no compliant cca, and im prepared to go all the way, they ahve acted appalingly and abused court process from the start.

 

DB

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I would say that it is an abuse of the process and a deliberate attempt to mislead the court......(was it radically different ?)...whatever happens make sure you show the judge....


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Especially so as it was sworn in the witness statement....


PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

 

DEBT COLLECTION LETTER/SAR/AGREEMENT TEMPLATES ARE HERE - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?65-legislation

 

IF WE HAVE BEEN HELPFUL -PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE GIVE A DONATION TO HELP US TO CONTINUE HELPING YOU

 

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IMPORTANT - If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.

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42 man, thanks, the date was 1 day out and the amount to remedy the breach was £150 higher on their reconstructed dn,

 

Ive got it all ready and prepared for the judge,he was a lovely man, he wasnt impressed at the first case management hearing with their cca, got another case management/allocation hearing on our amended defences just before xmas

 

Unbelievably cohens on the bottom of their dn admission letter state

 

" we believe the defendant pleads no coherent grounds to dispute the claim,":shock:

 

DB

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Just spoke to Howard Cohens on the phone,(as always recorded)

actually a very nice polite gentleman i spoke to

 

he confirmed Howard Cohens did reconstruct the DN, not the original creditor

 

I went on to ask him why they had reconstructed it using ge headed notepaper and he said they were allowed to do this to recreate an exact copy of what it would have looked like:eek: (he wasnt impressed when i pointed out it wasnt an exact copy anyway and was different to my original " ;)

 

So i pushed him a bit futher and asked him was it legal for Cohens to reconstruct a dn and use the original creditors details,ie headed notepaper/address etc

 

He claims it is legal, i asked him if it was an abuse of process but he wouldnt commit,and said it would be discussed at the case management hearing and he didnt want to talk over the phone about it,

 

(yes you can bet your last dollar it will be discussed in court in great detail if i have my way) ;)

 

DB

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Guest janensteve

so, they wouldn't have any objection if you reconstructed a loan agreement that said you borrowed £1 ? or a receipt that said you had paid back the said pound plus pence interest ? hhhmmmmm.

 

I suppose adding £150 onto the DN is tantamount o obtaining a pecuniary advantage by fraud which as i am sure all will agree is a criminal offence. How that squares up with the licence issued by the Ministry of Justice or the Consumer Credit Licence by the OFT, i am not so sure.

 

I'd be inclined to make a complaint to the Police

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How do the signatures compare on the two documents?

It seems Cohens creativity in some of these matters hold no bounds....


My bite is worse than my bark

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Im in court this week with this,

 

Dont think the judge is going to be too impressed with howard cohens blatant attempts at abusing court process and their attempts to mislead both myself and the courts with the reconstructed dn etc

 

Got everything all prepared and documented, going to be highlighting all the inconsistencies to the judge, just about everything is wrong with this case

 

The account was in dispute with ge as no lelligble cca was provided

 

Court action was started by Cohens before any LBA ,just a few days after assignment , i never received any NOA before the proceedings

 

The cca is illegilbe and has no prescribed terms,

 

The dn, even their misleading dodgy reconstructed one is invalid as not enough days to remedy after service

 

The noa is invalid as not served properly

 

Hope the judge sees through howard cohens blatant abuse of court process,

 

Would i be reprimanded for using such strong words as fraudulent/ forgery?

 

 

 

DB

Edited by dizzyblonde1966

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I would say something like 'Sir, I would contend that to issue such a dubious and incorrect reconstructed document and to purport in a witness statement that it is an exact copy of the original is at best disingenuous, and at worse raises issues the court may look upon even less favourably'.

 

Never use the F word in court!


“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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I would say something like 'Sir, I would contend that to issue such a dubious and incorrect reconstructed document and to purport in a witness statement that it is an exact copy of the original is at best disingenuous, and at worse raises issues the court may look upon even less favourably'.

 

Never use the F word in court!

 

Thanks, very well worded, printed it off ready and added to my dn notes ;)

DB

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Was the reconstructed D/N compliant with legislation in regards to content and the use of prominent and more prominent text?

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Was the reconstructed D/N compliant with legislation in regards to content and the use of prominent and more prominent text?

 

No, Howard Cohen couldnt/didnt even reconstruct a valid dn ,

not enough days to remedy after service, just says within 14 days from the date on this letter:rolleyes:

 

 

 

DB

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Sir or Madam. It's quite informal and you stay seated. Just do what the DJ tells you and always wait your turn to speak - never butt in.

 

Make lots of notes and make sure you can get everything organised in front of you quickly.


“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Thanks, im in tomm afternoon weather permitting, i should be able to get there ok, just hope the court staff and judge can get there safely too .I will call the court in the morning just to check the hearing is still going ahead.

DB

Edited by dizzyblonde1966

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Well i was in court today for my second case management hearing regarding this claim.

Having spent alot of time researching case law and getting my notes in order etc i was really looking forward to showing the judge the admission letter from Cohens that the DN they had submitted in their previous sworn statement they were now admitting was a reconstruction.

 

Anyway myself and the solicitor acting for cohens were called in, i never spoke to cohens solicitor prior to going in,

The judge asked what the basics of the case/my defence was, so briefly explained the credit agreement was illegible and missing all the prescribed terms .

I then started on the DN and how it was a reconstruction and how Cohens were now admitting it was a reconstruction and not a copy as they had claimed in their initial sworn statement,I was hoping the judge was going to pick cohens solicitor up and ask for an explanation from them for misleading the court etc and reconstructing a DN on ge headed notepaper , but dissapointingly he never even questioned her about it,

 

He just turned to Cohens solicitor and said in light of the manchester test cases ,he thinks it best the case is stayed and transferred to manchester pending the outcome of the test cases.

 

So im pretty unclear really of what happens now,?

who decides when the claim starts again, i want to put a new defence in now as well adding a section on Cohens misleading the court in their first sworn statement about the reconstructed DN.

 

Had a nice chat outside with the solicitor representing Cohens, she was a lovely lady and appeared geniunely shocked at the difference between the original and reconstructed DN, and the letter of admission from Cohens that i have confirming it was a reconstruction,after submitting it as a copy of the original in their sworn statement,

 

Anyway havnt a clue really what happens from here,how long can i expect to wait now,and what happens from here,

 

On the plus side, my costs are adding up, but so frustrating that after 2 case management hearings its simply just transferred to manchester,?

 

Any help anyone please?

Edited by dizzyblonde1966

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subbing


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excuse my ignorence

 

whats the manchester test case

 

is it a charge issue

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Hmmm... the Manchester case has nothing to do with forged default notices!


“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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