UK debt being enforced in NZ

[webby123]

Hi,

 

When I was in the UK in 2004, I left some CC debt behind which didn't catch up with me until mid last year when I received two letters saying that they had purchased the debt and if I didn't comply then it would adversely effect my credit rating.

 

So, I accepted it and started paying it back without asking too many questions. Recently I have been reading your forums and decided I wanted them to produce the CCA agreement so sent them an e-mail stating I wanted this information.

 

My initial e-mail:

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:− Account/Reference Number XXXXXX

 

On XXXXXXX 2009 I received a letter stating that I owed $XXXXXX for an outstanding XXXXXXX debt.

 

I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance.

Their response:

XXXXX

 

My manager has just asked me to enquire why after some seven months since we first contacted you that all of a sudden you are requesting this information. When this was discussed with you previously there did not appear to be any problems when as we explained to you at the time how the debt came about. To obtain copies of any documents we would need to go back to our client over seas which can take several weeks to be forwarded to us.

The balance of the account sent to us by our client was XXXXXX which was converted to XXXXXXX ot the exchange rate for that day. Interest has accrued on the account at the rate of 6% per annum since the date of XXXXX 2004.

What we could offer for you is to wipe the interest amount of XXXXXX that has accrued on the account since that period which would mean that there is a balance of XXXX to be paid less the XXXXX already paid.

Now it sounds to me that these guys aren't going to be able to enforce this and they're offering me a settlement. Would someone please give me some advice on how I should proceed. The initial debt I began paying back last year has now been paid off and I'm now paying the 2nd, larger debt.

 

Any advice on where I stand and what I should do would be appreciated. Does the CCA letter in your template forum work for NZ? I.e. does the Act mentioned relevant here?

 

Many thanks in advance

 

[maroondevo52]

This thread might help..........

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/221573-debt-being-chased-australia.html

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[webby123]

Guys, I need some help here. Have read the above thread but it's very complicated and I'd love to know where I stand.

 

Have received a response back from the aforementioned DCA. A little more background, I cannot check to see if I have a CCJ against me in the UK as I don't remember the address I was living at (I was only there for 6 months and it's a bit of a blur). I was under the impression I had to personally accept a CCJ for one to exist. This definitely never occurred.

 

Anyway, here is my e-mail, in response to the message posted above, and their response to it:

 

"Well the reason I ask is that I've been doing some research into the enforcement on overseas debt in New Zealand . The advice that I have received is that in order for you to collect any monies from me regarding either of the two debts I currently have is that you need to be able to produce a signed agreement from me within a specified timeframe. Even then debt purchased from the UK is unenforceable in court in New Zealand .

 

At the time of the original request I was under some duress and wanted this to go away therefore just accepted it. Since then I've sought advice and would like you to produce the documents as requested before I make any further payment.

 

Would you please advise where you stand on this matter and what my legal rights are. I am happy to take this further if necessary."

 

RESPONSE

 

"Dear Mr *********,

 

The information you have obtained is not correct, we do not have to produce a signed agreement in order to collect any outstanding monies from you. We collect several hundred accounts from the UK each year without obtaining documentation. The requirement for documentation applies only where we commence legal proceedings, which it had not been our intention to do. In most cases, customers accept that they owe money to Barclaycard & prefer to pay ************ rather than face potentially costly legal action.

 

It is also not correct to say that debt purchased from the UK is unenforceable in Court in New Zealand – under the Reciprocal Enforcement of Judgments Act, we can enforce a UK Judgment in NZ but again, as I mentioned above, it is not our intention to take legal action against you so that is all a bit academic.

 

I’ll ask our client to get supporting documentation from Barclays in the UK then we’ll go from there. Please note that it may take several weeks to obtain the information as it has to be retrieved from archives. Meanwhile, the offer to waive the interest is obviously no longer applicable."

 

************

Edited December 9, 2009 by webby123
Additions

[cerberusalert]

as I mentioned above, it is not our intention to take legal action against you so that is all a bit academic.

 

Well, they've as good as admitted that they cannot produce a CCA and have said that it's not their intention to take legal action. In that case they cannot take any legal enforcement, all they can do is ask you nicely for payment.... equally you can tell them to go forth and multiply.

[kurvaface]

Tell them to bog off.

 

They are playing you for a fool.

 

They obviously have no leg to stand on -- hence the offer to wipe interest -- they are just trying to salvage what little hope they have left of getting a further penny from you.

[bazaar]

Do NOT admit any debt,

You must stop payments NOW. If they want to take you to court for a debt that is unsecured in the UK then let them try.

They would have to disclose the original agreements, and as there is a lot of evidence to presume the agreement would most likely be duff, its end of story. Send a recorded delivery letter to these bottom feeders denying any agreement to pay them for any alleged debt ( Because it is an alleged until proven otherwise).

[bazaar]

OK Lets start at the beginning, Did they ( The NZ lot )

1. issue you with a statutory demand?

2. Did they serve you notice? ( for over $1000.)

[webby123]

Thanks for the responses guys, very helpful.

 

Bazaar: I assume I have originally admitted the debt by paying some of it off. Basically I received a letter from these clowns saying that they'd purchased the debts off Barclays Bank and that I was to make full payment within 14 days or contact them to arrange a payment option. A quote: "You are urged to give this your IMMEDIATE ATTENTION to avoid additional costs and further recovery action"

 

Any help with the wording on the letter I should send them?

 

I assume this is a statutory demand? Not sure if they served me a notice, the only things I have received are these letters. I originally was given a letter last year about a smaller Barclays debt which I have repaid.

 

And guys the only thing I'm scared of is that this may adversely affect my credit rating in NZ. That's the main thing I'm not sure about in terms of whether they are able to do so. Any ideas on this or should I speak to the credit agencies? Surely there must be some standard practise which means DCA's have to prove these debts before they put them on you credit file?

 

I also cannot find out if I have a CCJ in the UK as I cannot remember the address I stayed at when I was there for 4-5 months back in 2004. I've e-mailed the TrustOnline website or whatever it's called in the UK to see if there's any way they can tell me. My understanding is that if I do have one, then they can fight it in court however I realise it's probably not even worth them doing.

 

Thanks in advance for all the help.

 

Cheers

[bazaar]

OK, yes there are standards etc that DCA's must follow, but they never do. The letters they send sound all official and are designed to put pressure on you to pay.

This aint going to be a quick process, but you need to do things in the correct order.

Now, you need to request officially that they are in fact legally allowed to extort money from you in NZ and under what laws.

So in the UK this would be a CCA request, so you need the equivalent. You'll request the agreement that they state they have. If they fail to provide it in the allocated time, (which is most likely) then you default them. After this you stop payments, if you havent done so already.

They will give you more of the same old BS they have been in their e-mails, IE why are you asking for this. etc etc.

Thats it. Send everything by traceable postage signed for if possible.

If you look in the templates section on this site, I'm sure you can adapt the CCA request template to suit your needs. IE ram home the point that you suspect that there is no agreement between yourself and them and that you do not recognise them as being your creditor.

I think that'll get you started.

[bazaar]

Regarding any CCJ in the UK, unless youre planning to move back to the UK, you can put that on the back burner for now.

But in any case, if there is one you can get it set aside if the creditor knew you were abroad at the time of application.

[Taormina]

Webby - I am in a similar situation in NZ; here is a post (from Debt being chased in Oz, posted by a W.A Newman who is currently at the forefront of taking on the Oz system)

Hi Taormina,

 

If the company that wrote to you is UK-based they COULD be in breach of the data protection act if they send your personal data to New Zealand. It may be worth writing back to remind them of the Data Protection Act. CC the letter to the company's data compliance officer and the data protection commissioner (someone on here can give you the address).

 

The letter says their "legal representatives" which may get around the Data Protection Act. Although debt collectors are not often legal representatives.

 

If there is no CCJ in the UK there is nothing to transfer collection to a NZ court. Any action would need to be taken in a NZ court. However, UK credit cards are covered under the CCA 1974 which states all actions in Magistrates Court of England & Wales. UK courts will not hear any case against you as you are now non-UK resident and unable to defend the case (being overseas). If you have been non-UK resident for over 3 years (I think) you can't be made bankrupt in the UK. Get the idea?

 

The debt still exists but it can't be enforced unless you move back to the UK. If you don't make a payment for 6 years, or acknowledge the debt in writing, or have a court judgement issued against you in this 6 years the debt becomes statute barred and will forever be unenforeable, even though the debt still exists.

 

The only hope they have is if you move back to the UK, if they can convince a NZ court to overide 200 years of statute and case law, or if you send them a cheque.

 

This is general advice NOT legal advice. See a local lawyer for specific legal advice. Hopefully it helps.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taormina

Hi there,

 

I have been following this thread with interest, I am in NZ. We have recently recieved a letter (see below) pertaining to one of our accounts. I need to know, if they can transfer this or only employ a local DCA to phone us up and pester us. from what I am reading here and read on the data protection act, I understand there is a chance that they are not allowed to do this. There is no CCJ or anything else. Empty threat or major problem?

 

I would apprecite some advice even if its a pointer in the right direction.

 

Letter from CCA below;

 

Dear X

 

FINAL NOTICE

 

You are advised that Annoying international company are preparing the above account for transfer to our legal representatives in your country. Tha additional costs involved with this process will increase the above outstanding balance.

 

In order to prevent this, you need to contact us on the telephone number below IMMEDIATLEY.

 

Yours Sincerely

[Taormina]

Its worth reading through the thread, lots of snippets of info there.. I am too getting my head around it all.