Help - MBNA Visa Taking Enforcement Action

[Pushonup]

Hello evryone,

MBNA are getting a bit pushy over my credit card account non payment and arrears.

I'm trying to establish if they have a case for me to have to pay up as I don't think that they have complied with my CCa request or SARN sufficiently with all the correct documentation or in the right form or sequence.

I had to stop paying them large monthly payments because my income had dropped too low.

I asked them to accept a nominal monthly amount but hey just kept phoning even after I sent a Income and expenditure form to show that we had nothing spare at the time.

I sent them a CCA request using tthe forum standard worded letter on 18th May 2009.

Shortly after on 22nd May I received a threat to report my arrears to credit reference agencies by Aegis Ltd.

Eventually they sent me a letter saying that they had withdrawn my credit line and notified the credit reference agencies of my late and non-payment.

 

On 3rd June 2009 I sent them a letter complaining that they had failed to respond to my request to supply a true copy of my original CCA etc. etc.

On the 8th June 2009 I got one of their standard "sorry to hear of your dissatisfaction" letters.

 

This was followed by the continued phone calls, etc and even n offer to contact the Age Partnership for a possible equity release scheme!!

More to follow on soon.

Pushonup

[Pushonup]

Hi again,

Mbna sent me their next threat in the form of a Default Notification on 1st July 2009 - Not a proper default notice: -

 

 

They put 2 and 2 together and started to look at my mastercard account in conjunction with my visa card account but I have continued to trweat them as two separate entities. (See my separate thread when I get to it.)

They send another default notification letter on 7th July 2009: -

 

 

So now I decided to SARN them on 4th August 2009: -

They keep phoning, writing & trying to get a response by e-mail!.

I get a ream of paper from my Subject Access request with lists of calls they have made and tried to contact me.

They include my application form for my CCA: -

with some T & C's

Could you please confirm that this is NOT a valid CCA for me.

Thanks

Pushonup

I'll follow up with more tomorrow.

[Pushonup]

Hi again,

I might try to get to a current point tonight tho'

Since then they have tried to make a partial settlement offer:

http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad156/Pushonup/MBNA%20Visa/MBNAVisaPartialPayOffer221009.jpg"]

Which I have ignored cos I haven't got that sort of money!!

On 13th November 2009 I received this better constructed Default Notice dated 9th November, which would seem to be correctly formed.

Any observations gratefully received.

One point to note though is that they registered my account as being in default with the credit reference agencies on 31st October 2009 (ie prior to this notice!!)http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad156/Pushonup/MBNA%20Visa/MBNAVisaPartialPayOffer221009.jpg"]

 

http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad156/Pushonup/MBNA%20Visa/MBNAVisaPartialPayOffer221009.jpg"]

 

What is my best next move please?

Any help would be really appreciated.

Thanks for taking the time to read this far.

Yours,

Pushonup

Edited December 16, 2009 by Pushonup
Bad Link to Partial Payment letter Image

[Pushonup]

Hi Everyone,

I am taking the view that because the only request for a CCA has resulted in a copy of my application form I now need to wait for them to terminate the account or pass it to a DCA before I follow this up with a relevant letter.

Any other comments please?

Pushy

[supasnooper]

HAve you kept the envelope the DN was delivered in ?

 

What class of postage is marked on the envelope ?

 

Have a look here to compare your CCA - http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/609-mbna-agreementsapplication-forms

 

Also, have a look at these links which may help you decide on the enforceabilty of the paperwork (courtesy of 42man & steven4064) -

 

 

Is My Agreement Enforceable - Useful

Consumer Credit Agreements

[Pushonup]

Hi Supasnooper,

I did keep the envelope and it is one of those UKMail ones that doesn't give a posting date. Just a big letter S in a box top right & bar code franking mark on it.

Even though I received it on 13th November there would not be 14 days to the remedy date of 26th November.

I have checked on Annual credit report and they registered a default against me on 31st October 2009 which was prior to the notice being issued.

Does that have any bearing on its validity?

I've now had a letter, texts, messages and phone calls from Experto Credite.

They say that Varde Investments have bought the interest of MBNA in the above referenced account and that Varde have appointed CE to recover all outstanding sums.

 

 

I still don't believ that I've been supplied with a valid CCA.

They have only sent me my application form with a separate sheet of conditions of use that may or may not have been with the original application form.

Could you give me some pointers as the Default Notice would look to be correctly presented and the account has now been terminated by their selling it I believe.

Yours

Pushonup

Edited December 16, 2009 by Pushonup
Envelope had S in top right printed box (second?)

[IdaInFife]

re cca: was this two pages or front and back?

[Pushonup]

Hi Ida,

They sent two separate sheets (copies).

Looks like front and back.

No patterning shows through the copies of a sheet behind though.

I bet it was good thick paper. I Can't remember it from 1993

I can't see a specified credit limit on the application form that was sent purporting to be the CCA and no Creditor signature either.

Yours Pushonup

[alfwithhair]

Did the account number on the default notice match that of your credit card account or had they changed it?

[Pushonup]

Hi Alf,

The number on the default notice is the same as my credit card.

Experto Credite have given my account a different number though on their demand letter.

thanks Pushonup

[alfwithhair]

Hi Alf,

The number on the default notice is the same as my credit card.

Experto Credite have given my account a different number though on their demand letter.

thanks Pushonup

 

So they are now the legal owners of an account number that isn't yours and MBNA have not notified you that the acount number has been changed

[Pushonup]

Hi Alf,

So where are we here?

It would seem to me that: -

1) The documents that MBNA sent as my CCA do not fulfill the requirements of the act as the credit limit is not shown, there is no Creditor signature and the terms are not shown clearly on the front signed page.

2) The Default notice was not served within the correct timescale to make it valid by second class post.

3) MBNA have not issued a termination letter, but sold my account debt to another company who have allocated a totally different account number to it.

4) This third party company (Varde) has instructed its own DCA (Experto) to try to enforce a debt collection for an account that they do not own and that is already in default as the creditor (MBNA)has not complied with the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Any other things that I have missed along the way?

 

Do I just write to the DCA (Experto) & Third party(Varde) with letter 17 here?

Do I tell MBNA or wait for them to take next step?

Advice needed please. Not sure how to handle this.

 

Pushonup

[Pushonup]

Hi there peeps,

I received this nice offer of two ways to pay up today from Experto Credite!

Could someone please give me a pointer of how to respond to these illegitimate cash collectors from my points in my last posting. I don't know how to stop them chasing me.

Thanks for your time and experience.

Pushonup

[Pushonup]

Hi again,

Experto Credite keep phoning and leaving messages to ring them.

I'm getting worried that they will start legal proceedings soon.

Can one of the site team give me a bit of guidance on which letter I should write in the light of previous postings please.

Yours

Pushunop

[Pushonup]

Hi every one,

Although the process of this goes back to March 2009 the correspondence is similar to other MBNA credit card accounts.

The only difference here Could be that I took this one out in my business name as a sole trader Mr xxxxxxx trading as xxxxxxxxx.

However the responsibility stays with me.

Have had all the usual bits and bobs since I stopped paying the minimum due and asked MBNA to accept token payments in March / April time.

Usual phone calls etc.

Sent CCA Request

Sent SARN request

etc.

Now had a letter from MBNA with a different account number on it than my MBNA Mastercard card account. I have put the letter up here.

 

 

I will post the other background documents in a while but can't see how this can be valid as it doesn't refer to the original card account number anywhere. :?

I'll just wait for Lowell to contact me and then tell them I guess.

Yours

Pushonup

[dx100uk]

time for a CCA to them when the write then me thinks

 

that should be fun!

 

dx

[postggj]

i take it you were not a ltd company

[Pushonup]

Hi DX and Postggj,

Not a limited company a sole trader only so it is still my personal name on the card and account.

Pushy

[Pushonup]

Hi again,

A bit of background as I've been working through the process to establish the facts and whether MBNA have the required documents.

In May I sent them a CCA request under section 77/78 of the C C Act1974.

At the beginning of June I wrote with the "You have failed to provide copy of the original CCA for the account" etc. letter "therefore the account entered default on the 3rd June".

This was all followed by MBNA with the usual continuous series of phone calls to my mobile, home and office phones, post cards, letters etc. etc.

Then on July 7th they sent me their first default notification letter as below (Not a true defalt notice!)

http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad156/Pushonup/MBNA%20MCd/MBNAMCdDefaultNotificationLtr100709.jpg"]

 

On 4th August sent them a SARN Letter

They sent another Default Letter: -http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad156/Pushonup/MBNA%20MCd/MBNAMCdDefaultNotificationLtr100709.jpg"]

 

ON 9th September MBNA replied to my SARN request. My application/Reservation form to RBS the original account holders with a set of terms and conditons from a more recent date with MBNA name on them.: http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad156/Pushonup/MBNA%20MCd/MBNAMCdDefaultNotificationLtr100709.jpg"]

 

 

I can't see how these are valid documents to support the Credit Card Agreement.

They also wrote on 9th September saying that they are unable to provide a copy of the application:http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad156/Pushonup/MBNA%20MCd/MBNAMCdDefaultNotificationLtr100709.jpg"]

 

Oh dear, they said they can't provide it!

I'll continue this in a followup posting

Yours

Pushy

[Pushonup]

Hi Again,

MBNA offer a partial settlement and possible repayment plan with a deadline on 6th November: -

 

On the 9th they threatened to register a default on my credit file but it had already been lodged on 31st October 2009: -

 

Then in a lovely pink envelope they sent another pre-printed type letter explaining the actions they are about to take including writing off the debt and selling it to a third party.

 

And then they send a default notice dated 4th December, sent in a second class envelope received on 9th December with a remedy date of 21st December 2009. This does not allow the agreed time of 14 days after receipt taking into account the 4 days for second class delivery I believe.

 

Now received the letter posted in the first entry on this thread which I would ask for some clear comments as to whether MBNA ave any leg to stand on in respect of the CCA and the incorrectly served default notice.

I am assuming that they have closed the account although they have not written and told me.

What will be my potential liability on this card now please?

Have a great New Year Everyone.

Yours

Pushy

[dx100uk]

mbna as usual have shot themselves in the foot.

they stae they do not have a copy of theoriginal agreement. end of subject!

 

they have then, quite rightly, offered you a low settlement figure because they know they cannot enforce it.

 

thus their default notice is invalid etc etc.

 

let them sell it to a dca , then offer the dca 10% fnf to close the matter.

 

i would be inclined to write to mbna demanding they remove the default as they held[by their own admission] no valid cca.

 

dx

[MARTIN3030]

Yes agree with Dx.

Many sole traders and partnerships have been dealt a cruel blow by the OFTs lack of regard to them in the test case.

But anything thats covered under the CCA equally applies whether an individual consumer or business user.....which both the banks and card issuers think you know nothing about-that is to say they think they can tell you because you are a buisness account holder (or was) that you have no recourse.

[griffin036]

I would say the CCA they have sent is enforceable. Regardless of whether it is an application form, it does contain the prescribed terms and is properly executed by virtue of yours and their signiature. The credit limit point you make is covered in point 3 of the T+C's, and the document would seem legible enough to read the small print.

However, should this proceed to court would they be able to produce the original two sided document, or be able to convince the DJ that the T+C's are in fact part of thesame document. A tough call to make. In your favour though is the Default Notice received on the 13th ;-) one day too late to rectify within 14 days.

Just my opinion on this, sorry I cant help with a suitable reply. Maybe try for a 15% F+F?

Best of luck.

[citizenB]

You could write to the "New Owner" , expressing surprise that this account was sold to them whilst still in dispute with the original owner. Which is against OFT guidelines.

[Pushonup]

Thanks for your replies Griffin036 & CitizenB.

Best wishes for 2010 to you.

Could you just point out for me for future reference when helping others where the "signature" by MBNA is on my application form please.

I get the fact that they have a credit limit that will be advised once the account is approved in terms section 3 but no specific value.

I'm seem to be rather missing something here.

Will try the letter to the DCA and see what they say first before going for f&f especially as the DN was not served properly.

Yours

Pushy