NuttyTart vs. Abbey *** WON !!! ***

[NuttyTart1]

Hi All, I am new to this but after numerous problems with (SH)Abbey regarding bank charges, both myself and my husband have decided to follow my friends advice and go through the process of claiming them all back!

 

I am about to start drafting the Data Protection Act request letter to get in the post tomorrow for both my husband and I.

 

I have to say that this is very daunting and I have to admit to being a little confused and nervous about doing it, but really want to - hey you never know, it may prompt the banks to eventually stop charging so much!

 

Well we can hope!

 

Well wish me luck and I will keep you posted on progress.

[jburchell]

Good luck to you! Abbey seem to be alot more difficult to deal with than others but keep on in there!

[NuttyTart1]

OK, so after sending the DPA letters to Abbey for the 3 accounts we are claiming for on the 17/08/2006 I today had a replies regarding all of them (in them they state that they acknowledge receipt on the 22/08/06).

 

The letter in response to my current account was something like (I have paraphrased the majority of it, as well as the others):

 

Thanks for the letter... Unable to supply list of charges but can give you list of transactions. This will be forwarded to you in the next 40 days free of charge ,hence the returned postal order.

 

Don't know what you mean by 'manual interventions' but assume it means not computer generated and so we are unable to provide you with said information.

 

Yours Sincerely, Pam Speed, Business Manager

 

Then the one for my husbands current account went something like (I have paraphrased the majority of it, as well as the others):

 

Thanks for the letter... Unable to supply list of charges but can give you list of transactions that we currently hold on our system. These will be forwarded to you in the next 40 days free of charge. However all archived information held with microfiche and so will use the postal order...

 

Then the interesting part:

Any earlier transactions have been archived onto microfiche, which is not covered by the Data Protection Act. These archived transactions will not therefore br supplied to you under a Data Protection Act request and will not be subject to the 40 day ruling.

Is this right?

 

Don't know what you mean by 'manual interventions' but assume it means not computer generated and so we are unable to provide you with said information.

 

Yours Sincerely, Pam Speed, Business Manager

 

Then the Joint Account (again paraphrased), this was a very similar letter to the previous however because I had tried to tie them together I had not sent 3 x £10 postal orders only 2 (I was sure I had read somewhere that 1 would cover multiple accounts?!) oh well, anyway I have sent the one back that they returned from my account and so will await a response to that.

 

So now I am going to go through the recent threads again, try to get my head around what to do next and what the next step should be from this.

 

Could someone please tell me how I stand with the whole microfiche thing? Is this Abbey trying to slow the process down? Any rabbits I can pull out of the hat?

 

Speak to you soon

[Glenn UK]

I think you need to clarify your expecations to them.

 

For clarity we dealt with our joint acc and my sole account seperately. Im sure you dont need to do that its only what we did, arguably you need ten pounds per person.

 

However, the letters you have received are effectively fobbing you off and rejecting your SAR.

 

Theres a standard response, its my view that you have to insist on them accepting your SAR in that way if they dont supply the data there wont be a problem when it goes to court.

 

If you leave it they have a defence in that they responded to your SAR and you accepted their response.

 

Theres a template headed something 'response to abbeys microfiche argument' at the top of this forum.

 

Re Abbeyd argument about the microfiche, they are claiing its not a relevant filing system, the ICO are going to visit them on the 6th Sept and so we shall see what the ico says.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[NuttyTart1]

Really sorry about this, don't want to come across as dim, I have searched for this letter you spoke about but cannot seem to find it. The closest I can see is the DPA non-complience letter, but when I read them they do not match the circumstances?!

 

Could you please let me know where the 'Response to Abbey's Microfiche Argument' letter is please?

 

As soon as I have found it I will get it in the post, I don't want them to have one over me!!!

 

Thanks for your info

[NuttyTart1]

Thanks for the information, I have just drafted the 'Response to Abbey's microfiche Argument' and will send first thing tomorrow recorded delivery. I have sent one per bank account.

 

Hopefully this will make them sit up and listen!

 

Will keep you all posted

[Glenn UK]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/4031-abbey-microfiche-argument.html

 

NT

 

Sorry

 

i got the title wrong but the letter you have found is the one i had in mind.

 

I would use it as the basis for the response to Abbey and amend as apprpirate.

 

In a sense I think its important you refject their stance so that should it end up in court there is no way they can argue that you accepted their position at any time.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[NuttyTart1]

Have today received piles of what look like statements!

 

Unfortunately I am not going to get to look at them today, and when I do it will take ages!

 

Will let you all know whether I have had any joy.

[NuttyTart1]

Hi All,

 

I have been through all the statements and there are some missing, These are more with my husbands than mine, but I have sent the 'Response to Abbey's Microfiche Argument' so hopefully these will turn up in time.

 

There was one thing which was amiss with my statements though, when I went through them I was expecting to find the major month where they had charged me £504 in one day... This was not in there, the statement was but there wasno details of ANY of the charges in that month:mad: ! The only reason I have proof of those is that I happened to keep that statement (as well as a few others).

 

Has any one else come across this, where the charges were not detailed in the statements sent you in response to the DPA letter?

 

I am now going to fill in the spreadsheet to get the amounts.

 

Let you all know.

[Emsiewill]

I received duplicate statements from Abbey - and charges were shown in the body of the statement, but not on the "summary" page, where they are shown on "normal" statements. Unluckily for them, I was just being lazy, so did have all the originals as well (once I managed to search them out).

 

Are you absolutely sure they are not shown in the body of the statement? On my account, they are usually taken on the last day of the month.

[NuttyTart1]

Absolutely sure, they only show money returned from DD's where there was not sufficient funds in the account, only on the SAME statement that I already have had they showed the charges. There are charges on the following month as well, however these are shown as being taken from the account on a different month to the ones they missed. It was only by chance that I happened to have this statement at home.

[NuttyTart1]

Please could someone help me.

 

I have now entered all the charges into the spreadsheet (£1,556!), and I think that for the most part MY current account charges are detailed - although I am expecting some more to be taken from the account this month (and I don't even know whether they have detailed them all!).

 

Do I now send the prelim letter to them enclosing a copy of this spreadsheet, and keep to the original timetable for the others where I have had to send the 'Response to Abbey's Microfiche Argument' letter?

[NuttyTart1]

Also how do I make it so that where, there are some statements missing which may contain charges, I can add them when I get details?

[NuttyTart1]

I sent out my Pre Lim letter for £1556 yesterday (11th) via recorded delivery for my current account, and enclosed the list of charges which makes that up. I didn't include the 8% interest calculation!

 

Am still waiting for the rest of the statements from Abbey for the joint account and all of them for my husbands old current account, they have until the 25th to provide me with these.

 

If they haven't turned up by then, do I send a Pre Lim letter for these with estimated figures in them?

 

Am starting to get confused now maybe I should have only started with the one account to get the hang of things

[NuttyTart1]

Hi All,

 

I have just got back from my holiday and found a couple of letters from Abbey.

 

The first one was for me and read a little like:

 

Dear Mrs Chandler,

 

Thanks for your letter, sorry you feel the charges are unlawful...

 

Having carried out a full investigation, I can asssure you the charges are not unlawful, and that we are not required to demonstrate that the charges represent the cost of your breaches. Furthermore, the Office of Fair Trading report referred to in your letter only concerns bank Credit Card Charges. Therefore I cannot agree to refund all of the charges. However, as a gesture of goodwill, I am happy to refund £405, (this includes charges of £20 that you incurred in September 2006, which will appear on your next statement).

 

It then goes on to say how fiar they think they are being and that I should check my account more often and ensure that there is enough money in it to cover off DD's etc.

 

 

I have to say that I am stumped now... what do I do next with this one?

 

Then there was the letters regarding my husbands account (the joint account he was using), they obviously don't know what they are doing as they have been sending us statements as requested but these letters (both sent on the 22nd September read a little like this:

 

#1

Dear Mr Chandler,

 

As you know we are currently investingating your complaint that you raised with Abbey four weeks ago. I am sorry for the delay you are experiencing and I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your continued patience.

 

Our research is taking longer than expected because we want to make sure a full investigation is done. If we are unable to complete our investigation beforehand, we will write to you again in four weeks time to let you know how we are getting on.

 

I am sorry that it is taking longer than originally thought and would like to reassure you that your complaint is very important to us.

 

Yours Sincerely,

Marc Winder (Head of Complaints)

 

With this one I am not sure whether this is in response to the letters sent or to the calls my husband has made in the past about the charges when they have happened. :-|

 

#2

Our Ref: ###### ########/#########.doc

 

Dear Mr Chandler,

 

Thank you for your further letter dated 29th August 2006 about the transaction information you have requested under the data protection act. Please accept my apologies for the delay in replying.

 

I understand that you have already received details of the transactions and charges that are held on our computer system, which was sent to you free of charge within 40 days. You have therefore been given all the transaction data that you are entitled to under the Data Protection Act. Any details prior to this have been archived onto Microfiche.

 

As Microfiche records are not held as part of a relevant filing system, they are not covered by the Data Protection Act request.

 

It goes on to say that they can arrange to send information but I need to fill in the attached form and send another £10. I am feeling De Ja Vu here... I did this already... and for this account! (as below)

 

Pam Speed

Regulatory Compliance

Abbey National plc

Abbey House

201 Grafton Gate East

Milton Keynes

MK9 1AN

 

29/08/2006

 

Data Protection Act disclosure request

 

Dear Pam

 

Account Number: ###### ########

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated 25/08/2006, outlining that you could only provide me with printouts covering recent transactions on my account, because any earlier information has been archived onto microfiche

 

My request was for a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my account since August 2000 – in short, a list of charges with dates and amounts – alternatively, a complete set of account statements for that period will be acceptable. This should be retrievable from your accounting systems, and easy for you to produce. I will accept a computer print out of these transactions.

 

I am aware that you have been willing and able to provide other customers with a print-out of transaction information covering this period – and am ready to bring this to the attention of the Information Commissioner should it prove necessary. I would also draw your attention to Smith v Lloyds TSB Bank plc (2005) EWHC 246 (Ch).

 

This letter has been sent by first class recorded delivery, and therefore should have reached you by 31/08/2006) – as you will be aware, as of this date you have just 34 days in which to comply with my request. As stated above, a complete set of account statements for the period in question will be acceptable; however, I expect this to be provided within the time period for Data Protection Act compliance.

 

Should there be any further attempts to delay compliance, I will be left with no alternative but to commence a County Court action under section 7, and section 15(2) of the Data Protection Act 1998, and in due course, escalate this matter into an official complaint to the Information Commissioner and the FSA.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

Richard Chandler

 

I may be being a bit dim here... but I really, really am very confused now!

 

I suppose that it is good that I am getting an offer of sorts, however from reading the posts etc, I would be silly to just accept this?!

 

PLEASE HELP!

[NuttyTart1]

Hi All,

 

A gentle nudge on the old advice thing... please?

 

I have found something interesting though... I checked my bank and it seems that they refunded a load of charges on the 27th September... and although they said that they were offering me £405 back they only refunded £385 (as below):

 

27 Sep 06 Miscellaneous fee refund 20.00 331.03

27 Sep 06 Miscellaneous fee refund 30.00 311.03

27 Sep 06 Miscellaneous fee refund 30.00 281.03

27 Sep 06 Miscellaneous fee refund 30.00 251.03

27 Sep 06 Miscellaneous fee refund 30.00 221.03

27 Sep 06 Miscellaneous fee refund 35.00 191.03

27 Sep 06 Miscellaneous fee refund 20.00 156.03

27 Sep 06 Miscellaneous fee refund 35.00 136.03

27 Sep 06 Miscellaneous fee refund 35.00 101.03

27 Sep 06 Miscellaneous fee refund 35.00 66.03

27 Sep 06 Miscellaneous fee refund 35.00 31.03

27 Sep 06 Miscellaneous fee refund 30.00 -3.97

27 Sep 06 Miscellaneous fee refund 20.00 -33.97

 

How does this affect things if it goes to court? are the court going to think that they have done the right thing, and should Abbey have given me back the money even though I have no intention (?) of accepting this first - quite frankly - insulting offer?

 

:?

 

Please help me.

[ellemmjay]

Hiya Nutty

 

This gesture of goodwill is fairly commonplace now- have a read of Karne's stcky at the top of the Abbey Forum that's fairly comprehensive

 

Good luck btw

 

Elle

[NuttyTart1]

I have drafted the Prelims for my husbands account(s) ready to be sent first thing tommorrow. The only thing is for one I am having to estimate the amount prior to the 18 months worth of charge information they have prvided me with, and the other account they have completely ignored me, so this is a complete guestimate!

 

Have added the following into those letters to show this:

Due to the fact that you have not provided me with any charges for this account, I have been forced to estimate that you have taken in excess of £1000.

 

Hope this is OK.

 

As far as my account is concerned I am completely lost now and have no clue what to do next! Do I simply continue with the LBA - adding something into it like 'I acknowledge the receipt of the crap £385 refund but still want the rest' (obviously put a little better!)?

 

Am completely deflated now and thinking of just taking the amount they have given me and forgetting it!

[NuttyTart1]

Thank you,

 

I will draft that letter now and get it in the post with the Prelim's today then.

[NuttyTart1]

Hi All,

 

So here we go... Since sending the Prelim's for J/A and C/A (2) as well as the LBA for C/A (1) I have received (finally!) a long bank printout with the information I needed for C/A (2).

 

This morning I received two standard letters for C/A (1) and C/A (2) 'I am sorry you are not happy...'. In the letter for C/A (1) it stated that I had been credited the £385 into my account as well as a £20 charge which was ABOUT to go out of my account which is what the difference is between the amount stated in the letter and the actual amount put into my account, although this has not shown on a statement as yet (may still if they ever send me another one!). In fact the letters received today are very reminiscent of previous letters I have received, do they literally have one letter they send and just doctor it if they need to?

 

They now have until Monday, and then I will be sending the LBA's for C/A (2) and J/A - at least I can now include the breakdowns, as I have them. and it looks like I start court precedings with C/A (1) - very scared - I repeat I am now very scared!!!

 

Am gonna swat up, have already registered with the site, and put enough money in the right account to pay the fee.

 

What are the chances of it making court? does it work to their advantage if they have made that GWG???

[NuttyTart1]

Hi Guys,

 

Looks like I am filling in the online court form!

 

Getting through it and have so far included the following wording into the particulars of claim:

Claimant has account (########) with Defendant from (28/04/2005) conducted on their standard terms and conditions. Claimant is claiming the return of money taken by Defendant in charges over 6 years. The Defendant's charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law. They are also invalid under the Unfair Contracts Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.Para.8 and sch.2.1.e.

In the event that the charges are not a penalty they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15. Defendant has declined justification of charges despite repeated requests. Claimant claims interest under Sec.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% a year from (Date) to (Date) of (£0.00) and also interest at same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of (£0.00).

 

What I am having trouble with is the figures / dates in red (I am being paranoid about entering the right thing here), I need to make sure that I do not balls this up! So queries are:

 

1. Is the particulars of claim stuff generally OK to use?

2. The date from thing, is this the date of the first charge, the date I opened the account etc?

3. ... and the 'To Date' is this the date of the last charge (the account is still open, in fact I am going to use the debit card attached to it to pay the court fees )?

4. And then there are the figures... hmmm, so what I have is the filled in spread sheet which shows the charges and the calculated interested on each of the charges... do I use the total of ALL of these in the first £0.00?

5. What figure goes in the last £0.00?

 

Oh... and one other thing, I have received a GWG from Abbey - how do I need to place this in the forms? do I include / exclude the monies they have already given me?

 

Please help me so that I can finish this!

[Emsiewill]

Not sure about the dates and other questions, sorry, but I was advised when completing my claim to subtract the GWG from the total claimed, you will end up having to give more details at a later date, when they pretend they haven't seen anything (so I understand).

 

Hope that helps a little.

 

[NuttyTart1]

Thanks for that Emsiewill, Who will pretend they haven't seen anything?

 

Sorry for being a bit dim...

 

Gentle nudge guys... really want to get this claim in.

 

Thanks

[NuttyTart1]

Can someone please tell me what figures to put in the interest spaces? I think that I will use the interest calculated from my spread sheet... but what is the last figure?

 

Am very confused...

 

Thanks

[NuttyTart1]

Please can someone tell me what the interest figures are that I need to enter in this section? I think that I understand that the first one will be the figure calculated on my spread sheet, but the second completely eludes me?

 

I will use the date of first charge for the from date and the date of the last charge for the to date... Is that OK?

 

Am really confused...

 

Generally does the wording 'cut it'???