UKPC parking - appealed but heard nothing!

[RaaaR]

Hi, if anyone has advice I'd be very greatful.

PLease find the appeal letter I sent.

You issued me with a parking ticket on 20 November 2009 but I believe it was unfairly issued and I will not be paying your demand for payment for the following reason:

There was insufficient signage

The car park in question does not have sufficient clear signage to explain what the relevant parking restrictions are. This means no contract can be formed with the landowner and all tickets are issued illegally. Please see attached evidenceI have gathered as proof.

As you can see from the photographs enclosed with this letter, there are only two signs in the car park (one at either end), both positioned approximately eight feet from the ground. Given that the car park is positioned adjacent to the Barbican Leisure Park, it is a fair assumption to make that most patrons of the car park would be entering into the Leisure Park via the gate, however, there is no signage on or around the gate (the nearest sign is approximately four feet to the right of the gate as you enter the leisure park, and again positioned around eight feet from the ground) and is not immediately visible, particularly when cars are parked on that side of the car park as they were on the evening in question. Both signs were only found upon returning to the vehicle later that evening and conducting a search (there is also no sign on the wall facing the car park, which would have been beneficial). The area is poorly lit and the signs are in a very small font, almost rendering them impossible to read. Had there been clearly visible, well positioned signs and lighting to ‘highlight’ the signage such a mistake may not have been made. Neither were there yellow boxes nor marking on the ground.[/font]

In addition, according to your paperwork, your ticket was issued at 19.53 on 18 November 2009. On our way into the leisure park at approximately 19.51 on 18 November 2009, we passed the traffic warden who must have issued the ticket. This warden would have had ample opportunity to inform us that where we parked was not a permitted zone before issuing the fine, but didn’t. As a traffic warden is primarily employed to prevent and punish traffic offences, one would assume that had your warden seen a traffic violation in progress, he would have notified the driver while the violation was taking place, rather than waiting until after the event and issuing a fine, which is what appears to have occurred. I would appreciate an explanation as to why your employee simply let my companion and I walk by less than 50 feet from the car park when he had clearly seen where we had parked and could have asked me to move the car at that juncture.

If you choose to pursue me for this fine please be aware that I will not enter into any correspondence and this will be the only letter you will receive from me until you answer the specific points raised in my letter.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I recieved no contact from them within the slotted time and sent them another copy of the letter recorded delivery assuming perhaps my previous letter had been 'binned'

Now I've had a final payment notice saying I still owe them £80 and it needs to be paid otherwise a debt recovery company will be set onto me.

I believe they are bullysome.

I've no idea who else I ought to contact, I saw something about the BPA, looked them up and can only send them enquiries by email and not by letter so far. I've also contacted the barbican leisure park and sent them a short message asking for the car park company, which is Legalandgeneral MarkPark and sent them a short email saying;

Please acknowledge this complaint. The Barbican leisure park has insufficient parking facilities specifically on a Wednesday. There is an immense volume of cars and no spaces available. To make matters worse, not all the car park is marked accordingly and the company that monitors the car park are punishing rather than preventing infringements. Please contact me with details of who to contact to make an official letter of complaint to regarding the company in charge of the parking and its wardens who are using bully-style techniques against members of the public.

============== I'm assuming that will go nowhere.

I'm a little concerned about it seeing as I'm a student now and simply do not have £80 to spend.

What irks me is why they didn't reply to me appeal, first time sent standard 1st class, 2nd time, recorded delivery. Surely there will have a policy about appeals? Everyone should have the right to appeal, they must be breaking a company policy of some form?

Thanks for your time.

[asmodeus]

Basically you have spent far to much money and effort already as they do not have an appeals department

 

Ignore everything they send is the best strategy and after a few nasty letters / invoices with ever increasing amounts and threats they will go away and pick on somebody less streetwise. The Debt Collectors are the PPC in disguise (teaboy) as is the solicitor (naughty lady on the street corner) as no respectible solicitor would go near them

 

They cannot touch your credit file unless they take you to court and win which is nigh on impossible

 

Have a good Christmas and spend your money on something worthwhile

[dx100uk]

do some reading in this forum

 

its a [problem], its not penalty charge notice issued by a council warden, its an INVOICE issued by [problematic]

 

oignore them totally there is nothing they can do to you.

 

dx

[Al27]

It's a [problem]. There is no appeals procedure - no private company will turn down cash!

 

Do now what you should have done from day 1:

 

• do not pay

• do not contact them

• ignore any threatening junkmail

• ignore any threatening junkmail from powerless debt collectors

• they will give up and go away

 

You're giving this all the credence their con aims to do. Private companies cannot 'fine' people - it's a mail [problem].

[letshelp]

Raaar,

You have completely wasted your time and your money, do to them what they have done to you, IGNORE them.

regards

[Blagton]

.....

I recieved no contact from them within the slotted time and sent them another copy of the letter recorded delivery assuming perhaps my previous letter had been 'binned'

Now I've had a final payment notice saying I still owe them £80 and it needs to be paid otherwise a debt recovery company will be set onto me.

 

 

 

Well I'm afraid that is what would have arrived regardless of whether you sent your letter of "appeal" or not - they have no appeal process and all they did was roll around the office laughing at it I'm afraid.

 

 

I believe they are bullysome.

 

Yep, thats how they operate - read any of the many therads on here about UKPC or any other PPC.

 

I've no idea who else I ought to contact, I saw something about the BPA, looked them up and can only send them enquiries by email and not by letter so far. I've also contacted the barbican leisure park and sent them a short message asking for the car park company, which is Legalandgeneral MarkPark and sent them a short email saying;

 

 

As others have said you have wasted far too much or your time and effort thus far I'm afraid.

 

 

Pack it all in now despite the anger which may burn within.

 

 

Ignore all correspendonce from UKPC together with the innevatable correspondence from a Debt Collector who will suggest all manner of things will happen to you if you don't send some dosh - you might even have to ignore a letter or two from a solicitor suggesting you owe even more.

 

 

Unfortunately all your letters of appeal will have probably tagged you as a worrier who if they send you enough scary letters will pay so it may get strung out a little longer.

 

After that it will all blow cold - why ?

 

Well all you have received is an unenforceable Invoice that if they ever took you to court would be laughed at.

 

As mentioned have a read on here to settle your mind as to how these scumbags operate.

 

Blagton.

[RaaaR]

OK, Well I'll just not bother opening any other letters seeing as I'll get angry enough to do something mad.... *jokes*

 

How come they are able to get my details? Assumingly from the DVLA?

 

Is that not a breach in Data Protection on the DVLA's part?

[DBC]

OK, Well I'll just not bother opening any other letters seeing as I'll get angry enough to do something mad.... *jokes*

 

How come they are able to get my details? Assumingly from the DVLA?

 

Is that not a breach in Data Protection on the DVLA's part?

 

Anyone with "reasonable cause" can obtain this information. Look upon the bright side. It has cost the PPC £2.50 to get this information which will be of no practical use to them except for them sending out yet more junk letters. Look upon it as a [EDIT] tax.

[Blagton]

OK, Well I'll just not bother opening any other letters seeing as I'll get angry enough to do something mad.... *jokes*

 

How come they are able to get my details? Assumingly from the DVLA?

 

Is that not a breach in Data Protection on the DVLA's part?

 

You might think so but DVLA will release, as it says so on the front of your V5 document the name and address of the registered keeper to any odd job if they can demonstrate ‘reasonable cause’ for needing the information. This includes, according the the DVLA (and the IC) Private Parking Companies seeking the RK details to send demands for money that, under Law may not (in all probabality) be liable for !

 

Daft - for sure but as the DVLA reap a few pounds for each request they get from the PPC's they have no interest in actually stopping this gravy train.

 

If you want a letter to have any chance of being worth the effort send it to your local MP demanding that action be taken against the PPC's who operate this [problem].

 

Blagton.

[asmodeus]

Is that not a breach in Data Protection on the DVLA's part

 

No, because the government make money from it and rules do not apply to them

 

However the thing to bear in mind is that all they get is the registered owner details NOT the driver which is the first line of any defence as the alleged contract for parking is with the driver NOT the RK

 

Just ignore everything however threatening and nasty. Only thing you need to reply to would be a proper court summons and anything that looks like this must have a case number and court seal. Someof these [problem] artisits will send you what purports to be a Court summons but is a fake and will not have these

[Al27]

If somebody is willing to pay £2.50, they MUST have reasonable cause.

 

That's how the DVLA work.

[red_regor]

Received a PCN from UKPC on Saturday after parking at a retail park and leaving the site. I thought I had up to two hours, but on checking the signs in the car park it does say that if you leave site you can be fined.

 

 

I guess I can only blame myself for parking there. I haven't received the letter yet, but I'm guessing the fine will be at least £45.

 

Given that I am in breach of their "contract", do I have any defence to avoid paying this. Especially if I was seen leaving the site?

Edited December 10, 2009 by red_regor

[Al27]

Again:

 

It's a [problem]. There is no appeals procedure - no private company will turn down cash!

 

Do now what you should have done from day 1:

 

• do not pay

• do not contact them

• ignore any threatening junkmail

• ignore any threatening junkmail from powerless debt collectors

• they will give up and go away

 

You're giving this all the credence their con aims to do. Private companies cannot 'fine' people - it's a mail [problem].

 

Remedy for breach of contract is damages. How exactly have you cost them £45??? Private companies have no powers in law to issue 'fines'.

 

Ignore this rubbish, you're giving it far too much thought.

[red_regor]

Having done some more research, it seems your advice seems the best bet Al27. I am now looking forward to ignoring their invoice when it does arrive.

 

I had a look at the UKPC website and was angry to discover the following quote, regarding client services:

 

"With the Warden Patrol Service we can sometimes offer you commission on any parking charges paid."

 

This probably explains why the PC World employee contacted them in the first place!! Grrr!

 

Heckles fully raised now. Just let them try and get a penny from me!

[Al27]

Yep, it's a money making exercise. Do-it-yourself kits are common.

 

Some PPC even buy batches of random addresses, send out letters and hope whoever receives them is scared enough to pay.

[letshelp]

Some PPC even buy batches of random addresses, send out letters and hope whoever receives them is scared enough to pay.

:eek:

 

Surely Al, that's dishonest:D

regards

[red_regor]

Received my "charge certificate" today. I have to admit, that if I hadn't come across this forum and become familiar with the breach of contract law, I would probably have paid it!

 

So a big thanks to everyone that continues to post and make us aware of this shysters.

 

I am tempted to send them a letter indicating how smug I am, but as you've all suggested, doing nothing is the best option, so who am I to argue?

[Al27]

They love it when you contact them. Best way is to frustrate them by never replying.

[RaaaR]

Aww they replied to my appeal later!!

 

But

 

Everything I said was WRONG and they've kindly enough reduced the fee back to £40 for another 14 days.

 

Yuh huh, ****!

[letshelp]

So, appeal rejected then?

regards

[RaaaR]

A fun filled letter from Debtrecoveryplus has come through. What I don't get is this from the FAQ.

 

Do I need a court order to use a bailiff?

No. Distress is a Common Law remedy going back to at least the 13th Century and was first mentioned in the Magna Carta. Completion of one of our Warrants or Authority forms is all that is necessary.

 

Is that confusing jargon to say they can use a baliff? Or only hire them?

[DBC]

I think they are confusing the terms "debt collector" and "Bailiff" , though I have seen the latter term used by some debt collection companies when referring to their operatives.

 

As an example of the above just look at this page from a shambles of a PPC called PCN-UK:_

 

Q: Does PCN-UK use bailiffs?

 

A: Yes but the correct term is enforcement agents. We employ private & certificated enforcement agents to recover costs that people may have outstanding with our company. Further more YES this is completely legal.

 

Please download the bailiff guide from the links section, the same copy is also available from any Citizens Advice Bureau or their website.

 

Q: What happens if I don’t pay?

 

A: Your details are passed onto our debt collections company and they will pursue the debt using the civil justice system. You may get a visit from our bailiffs to recover the debt or a court may issue a CCJ and/or authorise warrants to be issued for recovery of these debts by bailiffs.

 

Q; Bailiffs visited my home today can I appeal or discuss the matter with PCN-UK LTD?

 

A: No, it’s to late please contact them direct as they now manage the issue.

 

As you see, they can't decide who they are talking about.

Edited January 10, 2010 by DBC

[lamma]

A fun filled letter from Debtrecoveryplus has come through. What I don't get is this from the FAQ.

 

Do I need a court order to use a bailiff?

No. Distress is a Common Law remedy going back to at least the 13th Century and was first mentioned in the Magna Carta. Completion of one of our Warrants or Authority forms is all that is necessary.

 

Is that confusing jargon to say they can use a baliff? Or only hire them?

 

Which FAQ says this ?

[letshelp]

Which FAQ says this ?

It is on the Debtrecoveryplus website, check out the following link for more lies and fun:

Debt Recovery Plus Limited, Uk Debt Recovery and Trace service

regards

[DBC]

That "Eviction of Travellers" section looks really nasty. Talk about vigilantism. I am sure they cannot do that.