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    • Dear Man in The Middle   Actually I should be thanking you   I have been impressed by your kindness your professionalism and your prompt reply   I very much thankyou for your thorough reading through my case and pin pointing every point   I was thinking of appealing the fine aspect of the sentence but you have made everything much clearer and it makes me feel better     Cant thank you enough for being so helpful and may you be blessed
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    • Thanks for the feedback. A couple of comments:   1. Before Magistrates arrive at court they have no idea what sort of offences they will be dealing with or who they will be dealing with.  They are given a list of defendants and the charges against them on arrival and that's it. Their Legal Advisor (the person sitting in front of them and facing the court) runs through that list before the court begins, but only to point out anything unusual or anything in particular they need to know. In a traffic court there is not usually anything to tell them. They have no papers given to them about any of their cases (except occasionally when dealing with trials or probation reports) until the case is called on. They rely on being provided with any papers they need by either the prosecutor or their Legal Advisor..   2. Your fine is based on your weekly net income and no account of expenditure is normally taken. It is asked for so that, should the defendant ask to pay in instalments, some idea of how much per week or month he can realistically afford can be gained. Actually, your fine was not harsh. On the contrary you were treated rather leniently. The guideline fine for 76 in a 50 is one and a half week's net income. £6,200 pcm is £1,430 pw. So your fine should have been £2,145. Your guilty plea would knock it back to £1,430 - one week's net income, as I mentioned in an earlier post. In addition to that you would pay £143 in the form of a "Victim Surcharge" and £85 towards prosecution costs - so £1,658 in total. Had you pleaded Not Guilty and been found guilty at trial (a near certainty from what I remember you told us) not only would you have lost the discount on your fine but you would also have paid £620 prosecution costs. A conviction following a trial should have cost you £2,145 (Fine) + £170 (VS) + £620 (Costs) which equals £2,935 (the maximum Victim Surcharge for offences committed before 28/6/19 is £170).   Other than that I'm not surprised they asked why you would prefer a ban instead of points and even less surprised that they chose points over a ban. I doubt your presence made any difference at all (which, again, I suggested earlier that it probably would not). Sentencing for speeding is very prescriptive and there is rarely any mitigation or other factors surrounding the offence or the offender which would significantly influence the outcome. Speeding becomes a very expensive business when cases come to court, especially for those on high incomes and very often a "view" is taken by the Magistrates that the calculated fine is a "bit steep". That's probably why you were cut some slack.   One other point which will probably upset you more than help (but which I think it is important you are aware of). Had your recorded speed been just one mph lower you would almost certainly have been offered a fixed penalty (FP) of £100 and three points. FPs are normally offered up to 49mph in a 30 limit, 65 in a 40, 75 in a 50, 85 in a 60 and 95 in a 70.   Thanks again for the feedback.
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Hi

 

I have had bailiffs come here today regarding council tax. Hopefully someone can help !

 

We were in arears earlier in the year and ended up with it going to court over £300 , we then had the obligatory Bailiff letter and paid the council the full amount owed directly. I made a point of asking several times if the account was now clear to which we were told yes. This was back in august. Today we had a Bailiff turn up demanding several hundreds of pounds still owed. I called the council who confirmed they had recieved their full money but after a few toings and throwings it turned out the bailiffs had added several hundreds of pounds worth of charges. The council say we must pay this.

 

Firstly, the bailiff refused to show me any paperwork, court order of even a breakdown of charges. A call to their office said put it in writting. They claim he is coming back tommorow to take goods, my partner will be here on her own and I am worried as they were bullying her until I came to the door as well. Where do I stand on this ?

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nothing they can do, tell them to b*gger off.

the liabilty order has been met direct to the council

the bailiff cannot use that to collect his [probably] exaggerated fees.

 

it matters not if/if not he has been inside the house and has a walkin possession order

that cannot be used to pay his fees.

 

do some reading of tomtubby posts in this forum and al will become clear.

 

dx


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e-mail/letter the council and ask them the date the liability order was passed to the bailiffs

 

bailiffs cant charge for letters sent through the post but can charge £24.50 1st visit fee if no levy £18 2nd visit again if no levy

 

therefore you must find out the date the liability order was was sent to the bailiffs and the dates of there alleged visits

 

 

if visits were made after the debt was paid then your debt to the bailiffs is nill the bailiff wont go away so i would suggest you get a copy of your screenshot

I would say that if the baillif is looking for several hundred pounds he has most probably charged you

 

1st visit fee

2nd visit fee

walking possession fee

levy fee

and/or enforcement /van fee

 

send this to the bailiffs by recorded delivery letter

 

Bailiffs Ref

 

To Whom it May Concern

Please provide me with a screenshot(s) of my account(s) held by yourselves for the collection of council tax arrears for xxxxxxxxx council

This is not a request to access personal data about me in the meaning of the Data Protection Act 1998.

this is information regarding my account that you are required under

The council tax (Administration and Enforcement regulation) 1992 (Amended) to provide me with when requested

Please provide this information within 14 day of receipt of this recorded delivery letter if my screenshot(s) is/ are not received within the aforementioned time i will take this as a refusal to comply with my request and will make a Formal Complaint to the Chief Executive of xxx council in the first instance

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Thanks for the replies.

To clarify,

We paid the balance owing in August direct to the council, we have subsequently recieved a couple of letters from the bailiff through the post but ignored them as the debt to the council had been satisfied. They have NOT made any visits prior to the settlement to the council, the only visit they have made was yesterday, some 3 or 4 months after the debt had been paid in full.

 

They did not have or would not sure any breakdown of costs or indeed the warrant from the court.

 

I will write to both the council and bailiffs to see what they say, but am hoping that this will be the end of the matter.

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Just another point , I will be making a complaint about the bailiff first to his company, but in the event of a form 4 complaint, does the fact that he did not have relevent paperwork come into the situation ?

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Just another point , I will be making a complaint about the bailiff first to his company, but in the event of a form 4 complaint, does the fact that he did not have relevent paperwork come into the situation ?

 

 

The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992

 

(5) The person levying distress on behalf of an authority shall carry with him the written authorisation of the authority, which he shall show to the debtor if so requested; and he shall hand to the debtor or leave at the premises where the distress is levied a copy of this regulation and Schedule 5 and a memorandum setting out the appropriate amount, and shall hand to the debtor a copy of any close or walking possession agreement entered into.

 

 

you must make a formal complaint to the council and the bailiff company before any form 4 complaint

 

you need the screenshot of your account this will tell you if the bailiff has added charges after the debt was paid and what they are trying to charging you for

it also could be that the council did not inform the bailiff company that the debt had been paid therefore enforcement action continued after the debt was paid

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Many thanks, have emailed the request , lets see if they come back to me....

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Just an update, sent an email requesting a screen shot, copied in some of the directors so actualy recieved a response saying they would respond within 10 days.

 

Now, I also spoke to the council to get dates of the liability order etc which I now have, my question is I have seen something about the liability order having to go back to the council after 90 days. Can someone explain this rule as it is a long time over the 90 days so feel I have yet another complaint against the bailiff over that. Incidently he didn`t come back.

 

Another point I didn`t mention in the first post as I didn`t want to identify ourselves, is that I video`d most of hos vist once I had realised my partner was talking to a bailiff. I have it on video that he was going to take our goods if we didn`t pay yet I also have it that he refused or could not show me any court papers or a breakdown of costs. Also have video of the bailiff attempting to use the threat of police to get us to pay by claiming we were threatening and so was calling the police. Would this be enough evidence for a form 4 complaint ?

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Just an update, sent an email requesting a screen shot, copied in some of the directors so actualy recieved a response saying they would respond within 10 days.

 

Now, I also spoke to the council to get dates of the liability order etc which I now have, my question is I have seen something about the liability order having to go back to the council after 90 days. Can someone explain this rule as it is a long time over the 90 days so feel I have yet another complaint against the bailiff over that. Incidently he didn`t come back.

 

Another point I didn`t mention in the first post as I didn`t want to identify ourselves, is that I video`d most of hos vist once I had realised my partner was talking to a bailiff. I have it on video that he was going to take our goods if we didn`t pay yet I also have it that he refused or could not show me any court papers or a breakdown of costs. Also have video of the bailiff attempting to use the threat of police to get us to pay by claiming we were threatening and so was calling the police. Would this be enough evidence for a form 4 complaint ?

 

Yes and will make good viewing on u tube

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The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992

 

(5) The person levying distress on behalf of an authority shall carry with him the written authorisation of the authority, which he shall show to the debtor if so requested; and he shall hand to the debtor or leave at the premises where the distress is levied a copy of this regulation and Schedule 5 and a memorandum setting out the appropriate amount, and shall hand to the debtor a copy of any close or walking possession agreement entered into.

 

 

you must make a formal complaint to the council and the bailiff company before any form 4 complaint

 

you need the screenshot of your account this will tell you if the bailiff has added charges after the debt was paid and what they are trying to charging you for

it also could be that the council did not inform the bailiff company that the debt had been paid therefore enforcement action continued after the debt was paid

 

Hi Hallowitch

 

Does "The Written Authorisation Authority from ("the Council") mean the actual Liability order of the Court or simply a piece of headed paper "XXXX City Council" etc etc.

 

I assume they also need properly certified ID from the company they represent and some proper Court Collection authority ID from the Certified / Court Bailiff's register.

 

Sorry for these Q's but I really need to mug up on this stuff a bit more.

 

Note the following on complaint and follow it through.

 

 

fees will be paid in accordance with the agreed scale.

12. COMPLAINTS

12.1 The bailiff company will provide the Council with a full response to complaints made by defaulters to the Council concerning the activities of bailiff within 5 working days of the complaint being received. Copies of any relevant documents will be required. The Council will respond directly to the defaulter who made the complaint in accordance with the Council’s own complaint procedure.

12.2 The bailiff company will inform the Council of any complaint made directly to them within 2 working days. The reply to the complainant must be effected within 5 working days, with copies of the correspondence being sent to the Council for information purposes.

12.3 The bailiff company must keep a record/log of all such complaints.

12.4 The bailiff company will notify the Council of any legal challenges to their actions and their response.

 

 

 

 

If you have let them in -- BIG MISTAKE but note

 

 

10. REMOVAL OF GOODS

10.1 Where the bailiff considers that removal of the seized goods is necessary, written notice must be given to the defaulter, allowing 7 days for a reply. The written notification is in addition to the normal letters of intent. (This procedure only applies to council tax defaulters.)

10.2 The only exception to the above is where the bailiff company believe that the debtor is either about to abscond, or is about to remove goods which are the subject of distraint. However, the bailiff company must obtain authorisation from the Principal Collection and Recovery Officer, Senior Bailiff/Collector or as a last resort the Financial Manager (Revenues). These requests/authorisations to be sent by facsimile transmission to protect both parties’ interest.

Cheers

jimbo

Edited by jimbo45

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Ok, had 2 letters back today. The first saying I need to pay £10 for an SAR , which is as predicted. The 2nd response , gave a vague breakdown with fee`s now showing £42.50 instead of the several hundred. The breakdown does however show that the full balance of the debt was paid back in the summer. Now I paid the debt directly to the council but it they are showing it on their statement with dates incorectly on the statement.

 

The question now is where did the several hundred pound figure come from, even if the council made a mistake and didn`t advise them of payments made it doesn`t work out anywhere near corect.

 

The next question is the fee is for a "statutory Visit fees" , the only visit we have had was last week, 5 months after the bill was paid in full to the council.

 

So where do I go from here ? I have already emailed again asking for the full screen shot and coppies of letters etc, I am assuming they will not play ball on that. Now remember as well, I have it on video with this guy demanding his several hundreds of pounds and threatening to take goods. He refused to show me any paper work nor send me paperwork before he was going to return.

 

Just one more vague question which I already assume is going to be no, is, can they charge any more fee`s for trying to collect their fee for not collecting the debt that was paid direct to the council ?

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Bailiffs Ref

 

To Whom it May Concern

Please provide me with a screenshot(s) of my account(s) held by yourselves for the collection of council tax arrears for xxxxxxxxx council

This is not a request to access personal data about me in the meaning of the Data Protection Act 1998.

this is information regarding my account that you are required under

The council tax (Administration and Enforcement regulation) 1992 (Amended) to provide me with when requested

Please provide this information within 14 day of receipt of this recorded delivery letter if my screenshot(s) is/ are not received within the aforementioned time i will take this as a refusal to comply with my request and will make a Formal Complaint to the Chief Executive of xxx council in the first instance

did you send them this

Just one more vague question which I already assume is going to be no, is, can they charge any more fee`s for trying to collect their fee for not collecting the debt that was paid direct to the council ?

 

NO

forumbox_right_tile.gifforumbox_bottom_left.gifforumbox_bottom_tile.gifforumbox_bottom_right.gif

Edited by hallowitch

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Ok, had 2 letters back today. The first saying I need to pay £10 for an SAR , which is as predicted. The 2nd response , gave a vague breakdown with fee`s now showing £42.50 instead of the several hundred. The breakdown does however show that the full balance of the debt was paid back in the summer. Now I paid the debt directly to the council but it they are showing it on their statement with dates incorectly on the statement.

 

Is this a long time after you paid? There may be a time lag of a few days only due to the banking system but as the Faster Payment Scheme catches on this should be nearly a thing of the past.

 

The question now is where did the several hundred pound figure come from, even if the council made a mistake and didn`t advise them of payments made it doesn`t work out anywhere near corect.

 

The next question is the fee is for a "statutory Visit fees" , the only visit we have had was last week, 5 months after the bill was paid in full to the council.

 

So where do I go from here ? I have already emailed again asking for the full screen shot and coppies of letters etc, I am assuming they will not play ball on that. Now remember as well, I have it on video with this guy demanding his several hundreds of pounds and threatening to take goods. He refused to show me any paper work nor send me paperwork before he was going to return.

 

Just one more vague question which I already assume is going to be no, is, can they charge any more fee`s for trying to collect their fee for not collecting the debt that was paid direct to the council ?

 

PT


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It was around a few days, however the council confirmed the dates I paid, the bailiffs dates are a few days after the councils dates. Just another point, the council tax is managed by Capita in our council, whom I believe own Equita. Would Capita have sent the money to the bailiff for some reason ?

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Just an Update, I requested the information again includding the screenshot, they have failled to provide this within the 14 days. I really want to take this further and find out what the origional sum they were requesting was for. They have sent a statement which bears no resemblance to the money the Bailiff was demanding on the doorstep. I feel the Bailiff was fraudulantly trying to extract money so feel some sort of action needs to be taken against them, but whats the next step.

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Guest Happy Contrails

If you have any documentary proof a bailiff tried to unlawfully obtain money then you contact police. Expect lots of excuses and theres a template on this forum which results in the bailiff being questioned under caution and mugshots going on police records. Dont expect CPS be so entheusiatic.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/222071-dustbin-equita-bailiffs-urgent.html#post2479849 see Chief Constable template at bottom of post.

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I have video evidence of them trying to obtain over two hundred pounds but would not show a breakdown of this , nor would they show any court papers. I am still trying to get a screenshot of the breakdown. Bottom line is its all on video which is why I want to pursue it.

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If the bailiff fails to give a breakdown of his fees then this can be interpreted the bailiff is unable to show his charges qualifies to be reasonable costs, and you do not have to pay them. If you have already paid, you can reclaim it via litigation on a Form N1 from the authority that instructed the bailiff, because the bailiff fee legislation says the any fees charged to a debtor as reasonable costs must be a disbursement incurred as part of transporting and selling your goods at auction. If no goods have been transported or sold at auction to pay the money you owe, the bailiff has not incurred any costs and is making a false representation to obtain a money transfer (Fraud Act 2006). The law only provides for bailiffs to charge you a statutory fee of £24.50 to attend. If litigating for unlawful fees, the court will ask the bailiff how the costs are compiled and receipts will need to be produced. A video is admissible evidence when litigating a council for the recovery of unlawful bailiffs fees, the council is named on the Form N1 as The Mayor and Burgesses of (name of council). When the council receives the Defendants response pack in the post, they will most likely suspend the bailiffs contract pending an investigation, do best not name the bailiff a 2nd defendant.

Edited by Nintendo Pü

The next generation Nintendo Wii - the Nintendo Puu

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The Council will also have a copy of your account with the Bailiffs.

 

PT


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Following on from my previous issue, things have progressed somewhat but don`t want to discuss on here at the moment, don`t seem able to PM tomtubby direct for further advice !

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post on your org thread

tt will get a alert you have a new post on the thread thern

 

always best to stick to one thread per debt

 

dx


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