Cygnet Finance and Bill of Sale

[meekle]

Hi all, i wonder if you can advise. we took out car finance through Cygnet in january 2007. When we applied the chap there stated that although the interest was high, once we had made 50% of the payments we could trade the car in against another on a lower premium, and owe nothing on the remainder of the loan as it was a standard HPI agreement.

 

I have since contacted them to enact this and have been advised that we dont have HPI, but infact a Bill of Sale. I have asked them for a copy of the bill of sale, and to be fair, within 24 hours they sent me a copy of the application form "regulated by the 1974 consumer credit act".

 

I notice that this differs from the copy i have in as much as the copy i have (the original carbon copy of the form) it does not have an agreement number, nor a signature of the salesman. On th ecopy i recieved in the post, there is an agreement number (in a different coloured pen) and the name of a salesman, with the date by his signature dated some three days after mine.

 

Can you please advise me therefore, where do i go from here. If all they have is a CCA form, does this constitute the Bill of Sale? if not, can then enforce the agreement or can i now hand the keys back and walk away without owing anymore? Is this form actually valid or am i paying over the odds for no reason at all?

 

Any help most appreciated..........

[trooper68]

Hi all, i wonder if you can advise. we took out car finance through Cygnet in january 2007. When we applied the chap there stated that although the interest was high, once we had made 50% of the payments we could trade the car in against another on a lower premium, and owe nothing on the remainder of the loan as it was a standard HPI agreement.

 

I have since contacted them to enact this and have been advised that we dont have HPI, but infact a Bill of Sale. I have asked them for a copy of the bill of sale, and to be fair, within 24 hours they sent me a copy of the application form "regulated by the 1974 consumer credit act".

 

I notice that this differs from the copy i have in as much as the copy i have (the original carbon copy of the form) it does not have an agreement number, nor a signature of the salesman. On th ecopy i recieved in the post, there is an agreement number (in a different coloured pen) and the name of a salesman, with the date by his signature dated some three days after mine.

 

Can you please advise me therefore, where do i go from here. If all they have is a CCA form, does this constitute the Bill of Sale? if not, can then enforce the agreement or can i now hand the keys back and walk away without owing anymore? Is this form actually valid or am i paying over the odds for no reason at all?

 

Any help most appreciated..........

 

 

Hi meekle

 

Do you have any paperwork from an 2007? You should have a copy of the BoS and the CCA 1974.

 

You have asked for a copy and they send through a blank cca form. If I was you I would SAR them, you can find a template in the stickes at the thop of this webpage. It will cost you £10, the good thing is that they cannot ignore it, data protection act 1998. You will need to reg the letter, then they will have 40 days.

 

trooper68

[meekle]

Hiy aTrooper.

 

the original i have from 2007 has all my data filled in, except for the agreement number, the date, and teh reps signature. I do not have the BOS. I was never given a copy. This paperwork i have seems to be a CCA backing up the BOS? does that make sense?.

 

The copy they sent me was the same paperwork as i had, but this time with the agreement number filled in, date of signature and the signature itself appears to have been added some three days later, not in my prescence.

 

I will SAR them and see where that gets me. Whilst i have SAR'd them, i assume i still continue to make payments, or can i put them on hold as it is in dispute?

[trooper68]

Hiy aTrooper.

 

the original i have from 2007 has all my data filled in, except for the agreement number, the date, and teh reps signature. I do not have the BOS. I was never given a copy. This paperwork i have seems to be a CCA backing up the BOS? does that make sense?.

 

The copy they sent me was the same paperwork as i had, but this time with the agreement number filled in, date of signature and the signature itself appears to have been added some three days later, not in my prescence.

 

I will SAR them and see where that gets me. Whilst i have SAR'd them, i assume i still continue to make payments, or can i put them on hold as it is in dispute?

 

 

Hi Meekle

 

It smells a bit fishy, there are clear thing you will need to confirm via the paperwork

 

1. BoS, is it valid- It must be signed by you, the person drawing up the bos and a third person as a witness. It must also be correctly registers and within 7 days (not working days).

2. The CCA must be correctly done, as this makes it unenforcable.

 

Now on the question of stopping payment, If it was me, I would draw a letter up of complaint, reg it and explain that until they have supplied the paperwork under the sar, i see the account under serious dispute and as such withholding monies until your complaint is satisfied by you.

 

trooper68

[seekeroftruthandjustice]

For the sake of practical advice I suggest you take qualified, upto date and non-Cagger legal advice before you rely on 1. "a third person as witness" as this simply is not the case.

 

Trooper - you need to stop promoting this singular aspect of establishing an unenforceable BOS because it is not a valid argument / point of law and moreover for the purposes of this Forum as a whole, there is not a single post relating to this holding in court, most probabaly because superceding case law exists.

 

meekle - think carefully before you miss payments on this advice whilst you obtain and examine the paperwork

STJ

[trooper68]

For the sake of practical advice I suggest you take qualified, upto date and non-Cagger legal advice before you rely on 1. "a third person as witness" as this simply is not the case.

 

Trooper - you need to stop promoting this singular aspect of establishing an unenforceable BOS because it is not a valid argument / point of law and moreover for the purposes of this Forum as a whole, there is not a single post relating to this holding in court, most probabaly because superceding case law exists.

 

meekle - think carefully before you miss payments on this advice whilst you obtain and examine the paperwork

STJ

 

 

Ok, buddy what do you think it means? A third party witness to a BoS is someone who CANNOT be party to it. Not a Manager, A worker earning a wage at said company~ a witness who shall not benifit or profit by said sale. Have you read the Bill of Sale Act? go and have a read

 

If they stuck to the act which the BoS is drawn it would not be an issue.

They flout the OFT guide lines and lie to get what they want.

 

Go hear and read it Bills of Sale Act (1878) Amendment Act 1882 (c.43)

 

Perhaps, once you do read it you will then notice that 1 point missed makes the Bos is invalid-void which helps if it goes to court.

 

Trooper68

[seekeroftruthandjustice]

Trooper, buddy

 

No mention of a third party that I can see in your link.

The specific requirement is for a credible witness.

Which, it could be argued, should not be an LBL rep on a pub car park or a busy corner of Cash Convertors.

 

However an employee of LBL is simply not a party to the agreement, the issue of commission is irrelevant, the parties are the borrower and lender, as simple as that.

 

Your tone, whichever one of you is speaking, is unnecessarily aggressive. My posts are not designed to make friends or even to score Brownie points.

I repeat my assertion that you will not make this particular point stick in Court, however much of your other arguments are interesting and worthy of exploration.

Clearly there are major concerns relating to LBL collection techniques and I think this deserves further investigation.

[trooper68]

Trooper, buddy

 

No mention of a third party that I can see in your link.

The specific requirement is for a credible witness.

Which, it could be argued, should not be an LBL rep on a pub car park or a busy corner of Cash Convertors.

 

However an employee of LBL is simply not a party to the agreement, the issue of commission is irrelevant, the parties are the borrower and lender, as simple as that.

 

Your tone, whichever one of you is speaking, is unnecessarily aggressive. My posts are not designed to make friends or even to score Brownie points.

I repeat my assertion that you will not make this particular point stick in Court, however much of your other arguments are interesting and worthy of exploration.

Clearly there are major concerns relating to LBL collection techniques and I think this deserves further investigation.

 

 

Seeker, I am not aggressive at all, passonate I would say, I was an innocent victim, I had my car taken months after I purchased it free from any marks-HP etc etc. My partner was assalted by 1 so called "agent".

 

Now, if I had known what I have researched and had help within this forum I would have been on a better standing. Like me many people where flashed a BoS copy- that turned out to be invalid-void. Hence the taking of the car was unlawful-they had no right at all.

 

If you can prove that the BoS is void-not signed-dated or ,many other points can and will make the BoS void. That means if the cca attached to a BoS that have to follow the OFT guidelines-Obtaining a court order to repo the car.

 

I would like nothing more than to see these bully low life **** fold. Not once did LBL or Anglia agents think that they could have been mistaken.

 

trooper68

[postggj]

Trooper

 

You Know Me

 

Ime With You On This

 

Can Seeker Provide Any Links To Statute Law That Refutes Our Assertion On This Matter

 

Ive Been Doing The Car Finance Threads For A Long Time And I Have Done Two Defence For People Ref Bos

 

One Was Cygnet The Other Was The Funding Co

 

Both Times They Withdrew There Claim And Closed Down The Accounts

[luc1]

What is STJ circumstances regarding LBL... Loan, 3rd party... or currently working for them?

[seekeroftruthandjustice]

Encyclopaedia of the laws of England, being a new abridgment

 

Status is thankfully am not, never have been or ever will be employed by the Pirates of Putney

Edited December 9, 2009 by seekeroftruthandjustice

[postggj]

may i recomend

 

outlaw or ministry of justice

[seekeroftruthandjustice]

You may indeed

 

But the relevance is lost on me. I seek only pratical advice useful in the real world to lay-people.

 

My point is merely meant to be helpful in that reliance on the "third party, non -commission earning" witness is not good advice.

 

Even worse is reference to Bill, Ben & Weed, which thankfully you did not bring up.