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intree

2 judgements on one claimfrom builder within 4 days ** SUCCESS**

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We had a claim in court against a builder for 4790, his defence was not put in on time

 

Builder acknowleges claim and then goes on holiday - deadline was 8/08

11/08 we obtained Default Judgement

11/08 Builder puts in defence

 

04/09, Builder asks for a set aside.......Hearing was to take place 09/11

21/09 we ask for defence to be struck out and not to set aside

04/11 we attend hearing to hear application, district judge awards us costs and dismisses defendants application, and vacated Hearing of 09/11

 

Court advice is the order can not be typed up for 4 weeks due to backlog.

 

called court last week 19/11, informed the Hearing of 9/11 did take place and defendant attended.

 

19/11 wrote to court for explanation, again advised court very busy have to wait.

26/11 sent a further letter asking for order of 04/11 and explanation again advised no manager available.

 

02/12 received order for 9/11 (still no order from 04/11) indicating set aside application successful as claimant did not attend, AQ sent.

 

02/12 Called court, advised there has been a error, refered to judge who did not have file notes when 9/11 order made.

 

03/12 now gone back to another DJ not court manager and advised the 2nd order may stand as its more recent.

 

Asked to call back in 2 weeks as they are busy ??????????? AQ needs to be in with a further £35.00 when already been to a hearing and a Order to dismiss the Defendants application has not been actioned -

 

Where do I now stand please?

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anyone able to help me pls, called court again and they informed me that the file was with the judge still and no decision has been made which order will stand, but was told to send in AQ and the 35,00

 

I am just surprised as to what is going on despite writing to the court manager, no response in writing at all.

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I suggest a further letter be sent to the Court Manager, asking for the case to be thoroughly reviewed in light of the court's inconsistency and errors.

 

Ask that a judge reviews events to date and issues directions accordingly.

 

Point out that your letter to the Court Manager of xxdate remains unaswered and you are wary of responding to the courts telephone request in view of how the case has been handled so far.

 

Keep the letter brief, respectful and to the point. Deliver it by hand and ask for a receipt for it. Tomorrow if poss.


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Hi thanks Slick32

 

I have just heard from the court and they want the

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AQ and the 35.00 fee. I have sent this this morning as they have still not made a decision and the matter is now with a District Judge.............I have sent all the information to the court so I am just hoping that they will now deal with the matter and give me the order when they dismissed the claimants set aside application -I just dont understand how they operate at all.

 

If the Judge keeps the second order live and ignores the one which dismissed the claim and awarded us costs - can we appeal or will that be the end of the matter - until a Hearing is attended.

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See what Directions are made by the court nowe that the AQ has gone in.

 

No point in guessing. :)


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Thank you Slick132

 

I am going to take your advice now and will post up when they decide to let me know what they are doing, you are correct.

 

Your advice is very much appreciated and taken.

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AQ was sent in, the matter has still not been resolved so I wrote to the court again, as the Judge who was investigating the matter has now sent the claim back to the second judge who made the order for the AQ.

 

I have written to the Court manager again - detailing that due to the delays and problems incurred to date with the issuing of Judgements, (due to shortage of staff to type the Judgements and orders) I have possibly sustained a loss of the costs originally awarded.

 

The court does not appear to resond to the concerns and in any event, they have just messed me about so much I am lost for words...........The claim stands at present with 2 Judgments and I can neither enforce the Judgement made originally or conclude the matter - THE JUSTICE SYSTEM IS WELL AND TRULY F"%^$D UP and nobody appears to care - ANY ADVICE APPRECIATED -

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Hi Intree,

 

When did you last write to the Court Manager ?


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Hi Slick I wrote on 9 December and then I sent this today :

 

I am having to write to you in regards the following claim and would like you to look into the file as there is serious concern as to what is happening with the claim, where two conflicting judgments have been made. Information which I submitted on 19 October 2009, that has not been considered on 9 November 2009 to assist the overriding objective, where I have then suffered financial loss as a result of errors and delays in getting the Court order of 4 November 2009.

I provided the Court with 2 bundled documents one in September 2009, (which the court misplaced) I then put in a application to dismiss the defendants defence, as the defence was put in late and also was ill founded, on 29 October 2009 we received a Court Hearing date of 4 November 2009, at that Hearing the defendants application to set aside the Judgment had been dismissed by a District judge for the reasons provided in the document of 19 October 2009, costs were assessed by the Honourable Judge and we were awarded £230.00, the Hearing of 9 November 2009 was to be vacated. The defendant failed to attend this hearing and did not give reasons for non attendance.

We did not receive the Order of 4 November 2009, so called the court on several occasions, we were then advised that the Hearing of 9 November 2009, also took place, when we were advised by the Judge that this was to be vacated, We understand that the delay in typing the order has caused this hearing to go ahead when in fact this had already been decided by a District Judge.

The Honourable Judge xxxxxxxxx , then made a further order (on the dismissed defence) and stated the "claimant did not attend" on the 9 November 2009, (when we were advised this had been vacated and costs had been awarded on 4 November 2009), we were advised in this further order to pay a further fee of £35.00 for track allocation, again we wrote to the Court manager since that Hearing informing the Court there must be a error as a Judgment had already been issued by a District Judge, we were then advised that Honourable District Judge xxxxxx was investigation why two judgments' had been made, especially as most of the documents and the Judgment of 4 November 2009 was on file, on the 9 November 2009.

We again called the Court on 4 January 2009, we are now advised that District Judge xxxxxx had not made a decision and has put the file back with District Judge xxxxxxxxx to deal with, we are again advised that this will take some further 2 to 4 weeks to understand what is happening.

Our understanding is that we attended the Hearing on the 4 November 2009, the claim was dealt with and a Judgment has been made based on the documents we submitted to the Court on 19 October 2009, a costs order has been made and the Judge made it clear we could now enforce the Judgment, which commenced that week.

We are now writing to the Manager of the Court to investigate the above matter, as if the current Judgment stands, we would assume that the costs awarded would be lost as a result of not receiving the Original Judgment of 4 November 2009, which must not have been on file when Honourable District Judge xxxxxxxxxxx made the order, without considering the above attendance on the 4 November 2009, moreover, it is clear that the defendant did not attend on that day to defend his allegations.

As it now stands we have incurred further costs to the amount of £35.00, we have not been paid the costs awarded by the Court on 4 November 2009, by the defendant and we are now no clearer as to what is happening with this claim, we are litigants in person and we believe that we have not done anything other than follow the correct procedures, and acted within the principles of the Overriding objective, only to find that we now have two Judgments' which conflict, but the November 4 2009 Judgment awards costs and confirms our attendance.

We would therefore be obliged if we can now be sent the Judgment of 4 November 2009, as we did attend court, The defendant did not attend to defend his allegations on that date and a Order has been made, It can only be assumed that this information was not on the file at the Hearing (which should have been vacated) on the 9 November 2009, when the defendant turned up, despite the fact that only 5 days earlier he did not.

We await a detailed response as we have suffered financial loss due to Judgments' not being sent out on time and believe that if the Judgment of 9 November 2009 remains, we will have a valid claim for financial loss due to the delays and errors in the Court system, it is very distressing for us to be dealing with a matter which had been dealt with, especially as the Defendant has a ill founded defence and has no evidence to support the allegations in the defence.

We hope that we will receive a response by return.

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I sent the above via e-mail as I dont have a fax at the moment and they said they have received this, I just do not understand what they are doing at all.

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do I send the above as a complaint under the standards charter - Pls advise?

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I submitted a complaint to the Court manager, today I recieved a response that she has started a investigation and that she will respond within 5 days, not so surprising I also received a Order indicating that both the orders are now rescinded and a date for a new hearing is to be set for 1 hour to hear, my application to dismiss the defendants defence as it was late and is ill founded, and the Defendants application to set aside the (correctly made) online Judgement, where he acknowledged service and then went on holiday, to return and put in a judgement 4 days after the deadline, making false and ill founded allegations.

 

I was hoping if anyone can advise can I claim from the court the financial loss, ie costs which were awarded, but now rescinded, as the delays and confusion which has caused this mess is due to the lack of any orders and notes being made on file, despite me writing to the court on a number of occasions.

 

I

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Given that the Court Manager has suggested she'll reply within 5 days, you should wait and see what she says.

 

:)


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The court manager has now sent a small note and indicated the matter was resolved as above with the new judgement, no other explanation at all..........how thorough is that?

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Sounds pretty rude to me.

 

When is the new hearing date.

 

:)


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The court manager has now sent a small note and indicated the matter was resolved as above with the new judgement, no other explanation at all..........how thorough is that?

 

If youre not satisfied with the response from the court you could complain via these people....or probably better just to respond to the court manager asking for a complete explanation of what happened ELSE you'll have to raise it with the ombudsman.

 

Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman - home

 

 

Timing is everything tho and you may want to leave it until after the hearing to complain provided its not too distant timewise :-|

 

S.


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Hi I am just looking for some advice as this matter is now to be heard at the court this friday, I was told that both of the judgements had been set aside and that my application and the defendants application to set asite the judgement would be heard on the same date and time.

 

I am concerned as the defence seems to conflict with the documents I have on file and which I submitted to court to argue that the defence was illfounded, but it appears that we will have the same Judge who - allowed the set aside is going to hear the applications.

 

The builder is a right rogue but puts up a convincing but inadequate response and I have already lost the costs on the claim of £230 which were set aside by this judge, as the judge who made that order did so in the defendants absence - this was the reason for set aside of both judgements.

 

I am not sure how to defend this - but can not continue to afford another £300 quid if goes to a full trial on a dodgy defence - despite me sending documents to the court to confirm this? why have they not just dismissed the defence..............i have no faith in the system to date?

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Hmm, there appears to be a right old muddle here doesnt there and all down to the Court's administrative department.

 

When you say the documents you have conflict with the defence, do you mean the other side's defence ?

 

I think all you can do at this late stage is to detail, bullet poiint fashion, everything that has happened to date. Take copies for you, the Judge and the other side.

 

If you have the other sides defence, then you will also need to be able to counter all of the arguments they have put forward.

 

If the other two judgements have been put aside then this should be a totally new hearing, with probably all the facts that been raised before.

 

In the first hearing you were awarded judgement and costs.

 

The only reason the 2nd hearing went against you was because you didnt attend. This because you were under the impression that it had been vacated as judgement had been given previously.

 

I imagine that had you known about it and attended the 2nd hearing that either the cock up would have been noticed and that judgement would still have been given to you.

 

I will also flag your post for the rest of the site team, perhaps they will have other ideas.


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Thank you so much for your support CitizenB as always your word of wisdom have helped me to sort this out in logical order, I have now bulletpointed all the important facts which dispute the defence, within a document which I will give to the Judge tomorrow.

 

Hopefully I will have some news after the Hearing and I HOPE this matter will now be resolved. If not rest assured I will post up for advice. :)

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Good luck Intree, on Friday.

 

:)


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Thank you Slick32 and also CitizenB for the good advice given..

 

we arrived at court for 9.30 for a 10.00 am hearing, they kept us waiting as the defendant did not turn up even at 10.20, so we went in and sat down, I gave our bulletin point document and also indicated that this is the 3rd Hearing to consider this matter and we have incurred considerable expense.

 

He read through the documents we submitted and said "I would have liked to have questioned the defendant on some of the issues he has raised as he is clearly, misinformed, when I look at the documents you have submitted" we asked if the matter would be final today and he said " Yes I accept that there is now no defence to your claim, and I accept your claim in full"

 

I asked if we could have the costs of £230.20 reinstated (ones which this judge dismissed previously) he asked if we were claiming for today and I said yes 2 hours for reaserch and travelling and parking and also 2 hours waiting and the cost for the copies of the documents to date.

 

We were awarded 230.20 plus 44.20 for today ..................

 

Thank you all again - IVE HAVE TO NOW ENFORCE THIS JUDGEMENT as the builder is not going to pay, so the Judge advised that the matter should be transferred to a High court Sheriff as they have more powers.

 

This has been done today......................I will keep posted

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I dont mean to alarm u but depending on where you live is if the high court sheriffs will get involved.

 

I know for England you have to have judgement for over £600.00 b4 they can be involved.


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Oh well done, intree. :D I will change your title for you.

 

Are you in Scotland ?


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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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