Mills1vEgg

[mills1]

Can anyone advise please?

When Egg hiked up the interest rate on my Egg card the other month, I received a secure message informing me they were doing it, despite no late payments etc; I contacted them to tell them that I wanted to stay on the current rate and not use the card again, basically pay off what I owe them at the old rate.

They eventually agreed to that.

I have heard that if you miss a payment they can impose the new rate and demand the full payment, is this true?

Am I still entitled to ask for the cca on this account with no retaliation from Egg? ie; hiking the rate up to the new rate and demanding full payment of the debt?

Advice appreciated.

Thanks.

[exasperated]

Hi Mills,

Requesting a copy of your CCA gives them no right to do anything other than comply with your request(providing you send them a £1 postal order)

When did you sign your agreement?

[Mistermind]

Mills1,

 

Creditors generally try it on to get as much as they can. If you show you know the ropes they will generally decide it is more cost-effective to go and bamboozle the less knowledgeable.

 

If you miss even one monthly payment they can threaten to issue Default Notice, and if you ignore the warning these days they will more than likely issue to DN. Many CAGgers report they never received DN through the post, never knew it was issued, so never had the chance to remedy the situation. It would be Egg's word against the cardholder, and Egg are not obliged to use registered post.

 

So long as you do not miss a payment and suffer a DN, Egg cannot demand immediate full payment, end of.

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7778218.stm

 

 

Credit card companies have agreed to offer some breathing space to consumers struggling with repayments.

....

 

The companies have also agreed not to raise interest rates if a customer:

• Fails to make the minimum repayment for more than two months
  
• Already has a repayment plan in place
  
• Is in "serious discussion" with a debt advice group.
  

The plan, which comes into effect on 1 January (2009), also includes a pledge from the providers of credit cards and store cards not to increase interest rates in the first 12 months, and no more frequently than every six months thereafter. If it does decide to raise the APR, customers will be given 30 days notice of the change. There is no mention in the principles, however, that instructs credit card companies to pass on any cuts in the Bank of England's Bank rate to credit card borrowers. So borrowers could still face interest rate increases, but will be given more notice of them.

 

'Real hardship'

 

.... Consumer Minister Gareth Thomas. Previously, he has pointed to the example of one case when a borrower's APR was doubled while they were in debt. The card providers had already agreed to a 60-day breathing space for borrowers in difficulty.

 

The government says anyone who believes a previous rate rise was unfair should take their case to the Financial Services Ombudsman Service which can order compensation to be paid if the increase was unjustified.

 

"There is much good news here," said Malcolm Hurlston, chairman of the Consumer Credit Counselling Service. "By agreeing not to raise interest rates for people struggling to make repayments, credit card companies have taken a significant step and will help ensure bad personal situations are not made worse.

 

"However more still needs be done. It is essential that all credit card companies follow the example of the best and freeze charges, fines and interest on the debts of clients who are on a debt management plan."

......

There are 31 million credit cardholders in the UK, borrowing billions of pounds. About half pay off their debts at the end of every month, making interest charges irrelevant, according to the UK payments association Apacs. But the economic downturn is expected to push more people into difficulty making repayments, and into a spiral of debt.

[mills1]

Hi Mills,

Requesting a copy of your CCA gives them no right to do anything other than comply with your request(providing you send them a £1 postal order)

When did you sign your agreement?

 

It looks around mid 2005 that I got the card, I have just done a search on my statements.

So if I CCA them, they cannot do anything other than provide me the CCA if they have it?

 

Cheers.

[mills1]

Mills1,

 

Creditors generally try it on to get as much as they can. If you show you know the ropes they will generally decide it is more cost-effective to go and bamboozle the less knowledgeable.

 

If you miss even one monthly payment they can threaten to issue Default Notice, and if you ignore the warning these days they will more than likely issue to DN. Many CAGgers report they never received DN through the post, never knew it was issued, so never had the chance to remedy the situation. It would be Egg's word against the cardholder, and Egg are not obliged to use registered post.

 

So long as you do not miss a payment and suffer a DN, Egg cannot demand immediate full payment, end of.

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7778218.stm

 

 

 

 

Thanks Mistermind.

So, is it the case that I still have to make the payments during the CCA request / dispute period?

Cheers.

[exasperated]

Mills,

Yes request the CCA but continue making payments. When the CCA arrives you need to post it on here to ascertain whether it is enforceable or not. IF the CCA is not then you can place the account in dispute.

Like I say request the CCA and then ask for further advice once you have received it

[Mistermind]

Thanks Mistermind.

So, is it the case that I still have to make the payments during the CCA request / dispute period?

Cheers.

 

In the Mercantile Court ruling in October, McGuffick-v-RBS (verdict apparently under appeal) the judge said that debt collection activities may continue even though an agreement has not been ruled by a judge in court as legally enforceable with CCJ, charging order, etc. What the judge said was that the debt existed independent of legal enforcement, i.e. in situations where he has not granted legal enforcement (however situations where he rules an agreement is irredeemably unenforceable for all time may have extra-court debt collection activities ruled differently, pending clarification via further Test Case rulings) he will not stop extra-court persuasion activities including DN, CRA blackmarking, pnone calls etc (NB. the McGuffick verdict is under appeal). In the McGuffey case the cardholder claimed for DN rollback because of noncompliance by RBS over supplyinging CCA within 12 days. The judge dismissed the claim and refused to roll back the DN.

 

This verdict did not help to clarify general principles because in this particular case RBS managed to find and produce the agreement at the court hearing when the judge deemed it enforceable after all. The judge did not rap RBS knuckles for not producing same before the 12-day deadline. The significance of this case centred on the judge's Obiter Dicta, his thinking aloud explaining how he arrived at his conclusions. Although such thinking aloud is not part of the ruling it is recorded in the judgment and often influences lower courts even though not binding on them.

 

Drawing a line against OTT harassment is the separate executive not judiciary remit of the OFT who annually license DCAs subject to good behaviour. If the judiciary will not prohibit debt collection it is hard to see the OFT prohibiting it beyond tempering their zeal.

 

There are grey areas, and legal matters are as always subject to endless hairsplitting debate. Anyone wanting to add to this debate will have a whale of a time in the 23-page McGuffick thread in the LEGAL-ISSUES forum.

 

In the mean time unilaterally suspending monthly payments will leave yourself open to almost certain DN issuance then if ignored, the demand for 100% immediate repayment. Whether Egg will take this demand to court, whether you can use a court case to erase 6-year blackmarks is another subject for endless debate until a judge says YES or NO. More Test Case will produce more verdicts and precedents.

 

It is your choice bearing in mind it is your good self and not brave commentators who may one day stand in front of a judge trying to repair your own credit reputation.

 

Good luck .

Edited December 4, 2009 by Mistermind

[mills1]

Thanks Mistermind for your further input, appreciated.

So, let me clarify, until such time that Egg, or any of the creditors, fail to comply with the request for the CCA Agreement I continue paying?

If they produce anything that is supposed to be the true copy of the original CCA I post it on here for scrutiny?

If after that scrutiny it is felt they are unenforceable I notify Egg and other creditors who provide such unenforceable agreements?

After those steps, having found the agreements unenforceable, can I stop paying?

Still waiting for the Ink for my printer, so just trying to get my head around all this is the meantime.

Thanks.

[mills1]

Mills,

Yes request the CCA but continue making payments. When the CCA arrives you need to post it on here to ascertain whether it is enforceable or not. IF the CCA is not then you can place the account in dispute.

Like I say request the CCA and then ask for further advice once you have received it

 

Thanks Exasperated. all the advice from everyone is very much appreciated, just want to get a common train of thought.

Dont want to give the companies any excuse to say I have not played things right.

[Mistermind]

Thanks Mistermind for your further input, appreciated.

So, let me clarify, until such time that Egg, or any of the creditors, fail to comply with the request for the CCA Agreement I continue paying?

 

Until a judge bangs the gavel and booms "next case" uncertainty rules. The judge has the last word, not the plaintiff or the defendant.

 

It is one thing if Egg's actions go contrary to the thoughts of posters here, it is another to try overturn a DN physically issued by Egg. Two instances of rolling back unjustified Egg DNs took 18 months and 30 months. It is up to you, but Egg are known nowadays to issue DNs like confetti, given an excuse.

 

More clarity will come soon from more test case verdicts. It all takes time and makes barristers rich. That's the way it works.

[mills1]

Sending this to Egg asking for CCA.

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:− Account/Reference Number XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77 will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

 

 

 

The above ok?

Any thoughts on the signature?

Actually sign or print?

I photocopy postal order back and front?

Write on back " To be used for CCA purposes only "

Anything else?

 

Cheers.

[mills1]

Bump, thanks.

[mills1]

Re; £1 Postal order.

The postal order I am sending is an open one, ie not crossed, is this relevant?

In the case of who I make it out to, is It " Egg " or " Egg Limited "?

Cheers.

[exasperated]

Sending this to Egg asking for CCA.

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:− Account/Reference Number XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77 will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

 

 

 

The above ok?

Any thoughts on the signature?

Actually sign or print?

I photocopy postal order back and front?

Write on back " To be used for CCA purposes only "

Anything else?

 

Cheers.

Re the signature I personally just sign and put a cross through it.

The postal order I just keep a copy of the number which you can check online if its been cashed.

[mills1]

Re the signature I personally just sign and put a cross through it.

The postal order I just keep a copy of the number which you can check online if its been cashed.

 

Thanks Exasperated, does it matter that the PO is not crossed?

Can you provide the online link to check if it has been cashed?

Thanks.

[exasperated]

Mills,

Make sure you send everything registered post. You can check if the letter has been received on the post office website, re the postal order I can't find the link but if you cant locate it on the PO website if you take the number/stubb into any post office they will tell you if its been cashed.

[mills1]

Exasperated, thanks, would it matter that the postal order is not crossed?

 

Thanks.

[exasperated]

Mills,

I have not crossed them personally

[mills1]

I may have wasted a pound, this was available online all along.

Any ideas regard enforceability?

Edited December 30, 2009 by mills1

[mills1]

Are they readable?

Cheers.

[mills1]

Anyone, please?

Cheers.

[Mistermind]

Are they readable?

Cheers.

Sure, under a microscope.

 

Claimants are being rapidly overtaken by events. With a spate of Test Case verdicts coming from Manchester Mercantile Court over the next few weeks, it is the judges' opinion which matters.

 

Happy New Year to you

[mills1]

How do I go about uploading with photobucket?

cheers.

[Mistermind]

You scan the document into your own pictures folder, then from Photobucket you upload from your folder. I think your scan needs to be in .BMP file type, not .doc

[mills1]

http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz324/mills100bucket/eggs1.jpg

 

http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz324/mills100bucket/eggs2.jpg

 

http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz324/mills100bucket/eggs3.jpg

 

http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz324/mills100bucket/eggs4.jpg

 

Hows that?

Thanks.