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AIC & Triton

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1st post so bear with me!

 

I have CC debts with Lloyds TSB (Create Card) and RBS (RBS Advanta the MINT). I did get voluntary arrangements with them but had trouble keeping them up, although I could make them now they have refused.

 

I wrote to both requesting the CCA's on 12/11/09. The responses were as follows:

 

AIC - Lloyds

 

"Thank you for your letter received in our office 13/11/09.

 

I note from your letter you are requesting a copy of the consumer credit agreement and claim to have preciously requested it from AIC.

 

In accordance with Section 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act, it is the responsibility of the original creditor to provide this copy and we have therefore today requested the documentation from Lloyds TSB.

 

AIC will endeavour to have the copy agreement provided to you within the relevant timescales, however it should be noted that we are relying on our client providing it to us in a timely manner.

 

Upon receipt of this copy agreement we will forward it to you; and should our client advise this is not available, we will write to advise you of such"

No phone calls or hassle from AIC yet!

 

Triton - RBS

"We write with reference to the above outstanding debt and aknowledge receipt of your letter dated 12th November 2009.

 

In view of the nature of your request we have passed your letter to Royal Bank of Scotland plc, who will contact you in due course.

 

We trust this clarifies the situation to you"

 

Triton passed this on to Green and Co Solicitors before receiving my letter. Green and Co have now closed their file following advice from Triton.

 

I know it's early days yet but what should be my next move?

 

Any help/ advice gratefully received - thank you

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Well the file is closed with Green and AIC have requested a copy of the agreement. If they are older agreements, RBS don't have any. There is nothing to do but wait and see what AIC come up with.

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if neither fwd a cca copy that meets the requirement in 12+2 working days from when you sent it, then gameover, you can stop any payments.

 

the crap they have sent you means nothing, it is who is chasing you that has to respond, and if they fail 12+2 tough luck.

 

absolute rubbish that you have to wait because of xyz excuse.

 

dx


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Okay, today I received a reply directly from MINT (RBS) dated 3rd December 2009 which is 27 days after I sent the original request to Triton.

 

They have sent the attached documents, and referred me back to Triton.

 

RBS Agreement.pdf

 

Please could someone advise me whether the agreement is enforceable, and if so how should I deal with Triton as they previously would not entertain a manageable arrangement?

 

Many thanks

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ok look pretty std.

 

so what do you owe and have you reclaimed unlawful charges etc.

 

as for people not accepting your offer

 

TOUGH, write telling them that they will be getting £XX for xx mts.

then pay it without fail by internet banking.

 

there is very little they can do to you.

 

if and a VERY big if it every did get to court

the judge would laugh them out the door as you have been paying what you consider a resonably amount, and would prob assign a SMALLER sum.

 

dx


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

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WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

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Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

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Thanks dx for the reply.

 

Is the agreement enforceable, as it seems what they have sent through is the approved application form?

 

I haven't reclaimed any charges yet, is there a sticky post detailing what can be claimed back?

 

What about the delay in replying etc. I'm not trying to get out of this, just want to make sure I do the right thing

 

Thanks

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For a start it is totally illegible and copies of documents must be easily read.

The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983

Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible.

 

They are not going to court with this as it is impossible to tell what the prescribed terms are supposed to be even if a judge accepted that the bottom Terms and Conditions were part of the application form. The ball is now in your court. You can offer them £1 a month or tell them to sling their hook until such times as they produce a legible copy of an agreement.

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The delay in replying is irrelevant once they have sent you the copy. You can hardly claim back charges if you are going to put the acount in dispute on the grounds there is no agreement for this alleged debt. You can only do so if you accept the debt. I personally would tell them this is not an enforceable agreement and until such times as they produce one you will have no further correspondence on the matter but I said that is your decision.

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For a start it is totally illegible and copies of documents must be easily read.

 

 

 

Are we looking at the same document? The one posted up by Mr Deeds, 3 pages long of which one is a covering letter the other 2pages an alleged credit agreement/app form are all perfectly legible to me?


I reside in Dawlish Warren but am not a rabbit.

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looks ok to me.

 

as for the charges

well you'd need all the statements to total them up and sar will be needed if you dont have them.

 

as for reclaiming on an uneforceable agreement,

there is far too much put on this issue of is it or isnt it.

even if it is not, it does not make the debt go away , its not some magic bullet that get debts written off & it doesn't stop them from demanding money, just they cant go to court with an unenforceble agreement.

 

likewise the reverse applies, they charged you unlawfully get it back.

 

i've got admit that a debt of this age is normally sold off

 

we have no history or figures, what are we actually looking at ?

some history please

 

dx


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

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WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

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Thanks Pinky, you're right that the terms are illegible in places (page 2 bottom right hand boxes) and I appreciate your other coments.

 

I should have also posted up a copy of an undated letter, on plain paper which to me proves nothing and I wonder whythey sent it?

 

RBS Agreement 1.pdf

 

With regard to who to deal with in terms of claiming it is illegible and unenforceable, should I respond to RBS, or Triton who they say are acting on their behalf and should I just quote the extract you have or is there a 'standard' letter?

 

Also as you will see from my original post I am alos dealing with AIC, and I have not received anything back from them or Lloyds TSB other than what I posted. Should I now issue an 'In dispute letter'?

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Thanks dx.

 

the debt is around £9500. I had a IVA of £100 per month with them and hit some hard times and missed a couple of payments. I am now in a position to fulfill the IVA but they would not accept this arrangement and Triton demanded full payment, or £950 per month.

 

I'm not particularly worried about trying to claim back other charges, just want to get this resolved. I don't however want to give in to their bullying. Their best chance of getting their money back is to work with me.

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other doc is password protected

 

ignore triton

OC has not sold the debt [which is a shame]

original credit limit was £2k?

 

how come it s £9.5k? now?

 

you say charges are not important?

i bet you have heeps?

you'll get all those back + int 8%

if it were me. i'd tell the oc what you are going to do as above then do it.

they cant argue if you do it by internet banking, but, you must do something and stick to it.

 

my post 10 holds some links

do some reading and have a think.

 

nuff said

 

dx


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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By no stretch of the imagination are these documents legible and there is nothing wrong with my vision. In addition to the illegibility of the Terms and Conditions, part of the application form is totally obliterated - they are supposed to be "easily read."

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By no stretch of the imagination are these documents legible and there is nothing wrong with my vision. In addition to the illegibility of the Terms and Conditions, part of the application form is totally obliterated - they are supposed to be "easily read."

 

I can read the terms and conditions almost word for word and if you highlight that part and right mouse click it makes it go a shade of blue which gives even better readability, if the legibility of the document was

brought up in court as a point to argue it is my opinion that the argument would fail.

 

Under the stamped box with the principal card holders signature is as in the Credit Agreemnt regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 and under say section 4 and right under the 02 May 1997 part it states

In calculating the ANNUAL PERCENTAGE RATE no account has been taken of any variation in the rate of interest as a result of changes to the base rate or any other item entering into the calculation which may be varied from time to time by notice to the Principal Cardholder

 

It gos on to say 'Where requested I hereby authorise you to issue in accordance with the Conditions of Use as set out overleaf and as may be amended from time to time an addtional RBS Advant Card to the ...etc etc....

 

It goes on to state . I confirm that my personal information may be used as described in the Data Protection box above. I understand that

 

an then moves into bos for YOUR RIGHT TO CANCEL and even though the outline of the approval stamp cuts through some of it it is still largely legible 'Once you have signed the agreement you will have for a short time a right to cancel the ------ and when you do this will be sent to you by post by RBS Advant

 

I'm looking (at least I think I am) at the same document as you and I can see what is a scanned document where the legibility of the document may diminish by virtue of the scanner and of course I don't have the document in my hand but essentially I can read it and if can I'm sure others can and could.

 

[EDIT]

Edited by Rooster-UK
Sarcastic remark removed.

I reside in Dawlish Warren but am not a rabbit.

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I gave my opinion - it is up to the poster to make his own decisions. You are free to disagree. [EDIT]

Edited by Rooster-UK
Personal remarks

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I gave my opinion - it is up to the poster to make his own decisions. You are free to disagree [EDIT].

 

 

You're right re the opinion but you also told them it was 'totally illegible' and that there was 'nothing wrong with your vision' which given that I could read the document in question and with relative ease leads me to think that perhap you do need 'specsavers' that isn't cheek but simply an observation coupled with my opinion. Don't be so serious and in any case if you're not minded to visit Specsavers then try Vision Expess :D

Edited by Rooster-UK
Personal remark removed from quote.

I reside in Dawlish Warren but am not a rabbit.

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[EDIT].

 

Strange as it may seem I'm here because of debt and being in it plenty, a thirst for information and for me to pass on what knowledge I gain from the site and from fighting my own debts. [EDIT] There is a simple choice, offer an alternative opinion to mine or say nothing and move along. [EDIT]

Edited by Rooster-UK
Personal comments removed.

I reside in Dawlish Warren but am not a rabbit.

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:D

 

dx


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and as such, I expect everyone to respect that view.

 

Please do not lower yourselves to posting personal insults.

 

Now can we please get back on topic and help the OP.

 

Thank you.


 

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other doc is password protected

 

ignore triton

OC has not sold the debt [which is a shame]

original credit limit was £2k?

 

how come it s £9.5k? now?

 

you say charges are not important?

i bet you have heeps?

you'll get all those back + int 8%

if it were me. i'd tell the oc what you are going to do as above then do it.

they cant argue if you do it by internet banking, but, you must do something and stick to it.

 

my post 10 holds some links

do some reading and have a think.

 

nuff said

 

dx

 

Apologies, this files isn't password protected

 

RBS Agreement 1.pdf

 

Debt is £9.5k because I've had the card over 12 years, and the original amount I transferred onto the card was £2k

 

I'll carry on reading but any other advice, without the petty sniping, would be be very much appreciated particulalry in relation to AIC and Lloyds

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All personal remarks have been removed.

 

While we welcome differences of opinion and healthy debate, these forums are not the place for personal remarks and sniping.

It creates bad feeling and does not help the Original Poster, whose thread this is.

 

Rooster-UK.


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Right I wrote back to Mint claiming it was illegible and they had failed to provide me the required documentation.

 

They replied on 28th as attached.

 

On 29th I received a letter from RMA chasing payment, despite Mint saying they have passed it to AIC.

 

On 5th I received a call from RMA being abusive, and ringing back a further two times when I told them where to go and put the phone down.

 

Obviouly I am getting rather anxious now. I have started the repayment to Mint of £50 per month as per my letter but really need some more advice please?

 

All the letters are in the attachment

MINT RMA 280110.pdf

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Don't speak to them on the phone again. Just send the £50 if that is what you want to pay and I would send it to the original creditor. Don't worry about their letters- there is nothing in them to bother you.

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Thanks Pinky

 

Should I write to Mint and tell them what I am doing? i.e. that I am going to pay them the £50 per month and that I will not correspond with any of their DCA's?

 

Should I also write to RMA and refer them back to Mint and state that I will not correspond with them?

 

It doesn't feel right just leaving it as it is right now, and I half expect more phone calls if I don't act.

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