LTSB Overdraft Help Needed

[minivanman]

I was made redundant last year and have since started self employment. Money has been and still is very tight however and I can not pay for my credit card, loan and overdraft all of which are with LTSB I have sent for a CCA for the loans and credit card, none forthcoming as yet, and I have also sent for SAR for all info of all accounts from them. In the mean time I have had the usual letters and phone calls(unanswered) but I have now received the letter at this link re- the bank account/overdraft.

 

http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx259/fordvanman/scan0007.jpg

 

 

I understand that a CCA doesn't cover a bank account or overdraft and that I will have to repay but in view of the court ruling last week am I now not able to claim for the excess charges against the account or will I have to pay them what they say is due in full.

 

Also can I pay them what I can afford rather than what they demand without having to supply them with all my income and expenditure details. I note on other posts that it has been stated that only a court has the right to be given these details. If that is so can I just tell them what I can afford and send it to them?

 

Any help would be appreciated.

[silverfox1961]

Hi,

The charges reclaims is not over. over the next week or so, more information will be coming on how to approach the situation.

 

Regarding I&E forms. While the banks have no lawful right to this information, it is sometimes better to give it to them to show that you are not avoiding the debt and that you are in financial difficultiy. A lot of people will say don't give it to them but I feel it's a personal decision and you need to wiegh up the pros and cons of not doing so. If it will help them to come to a decision, then I would send it.

 

If they demand more than you can afford, send them what you can. If you haven't seen these letters yet, they can be useful:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

[minivanman]

Thanks Silverfox,

 

I will send them my details and offer what I can afford however I fear that they will not accept this as it will only be a nominal amount and they will still be adding interest etc. Does the interest stop if it gets passed to a DCA?

[hungrybear]

 

I understand that a CCA doesn't cover a bank account or overdraft and that I will have to repay but in view of the court ruling last week am I now not able to claim for the excess charges against the account or will I have to pay them what they say is due in full.

 

 

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

ACTUALLY:

 

Current account = banking code

overdraft = section 10 of the CCA

 

they are two different things:

this is an extract from a Court case (Coutts v Sebastyen) and is part of the summing up by the Judge in relation to effect on overdrafts and the function of the CCA in such circumstances;

 

“The Defendant provided an overdraft on the account;

a. The agreement was a regulated debtor-creditor agreement within the meaning of s.8 and s.13© of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, providing for 'running-account credit' within the meaning of s.10(1)(a) of the Act (in effect, a revolving credit within an agreed credit limit); and

b. That, as such, it was subject to the requirements of Part V of the Act (including the requirements as to documentation set out in sections 57 to 63 of the Act) save and in so far as it was excluded or exempted from such requirements.

 

Section 65 in Part V of the Act provides that an "improperly executed" regulated agreement is unenforceable by the creditor without a court order. It is common ground that a regulated agreement is "improperly executed" for this purpose if the requirements of sections 57 to 63 have not been complied with.

 

Section 74 of the Act provides for the exclusion of certain agreements from Part V. It provides as follows (so far as material):

"74. – (1) This part …. does not apply to –

(b) a debtor-creditor agreement enabling the debtor to overdraw on a current account, …

(3) Subsection 1(b) … applies only where the OFT so determines, and such a determination –

(a) may be made subject to such conditions as the OFT thinks fit …

(3A) …. in relation to a debtor-creditor agreement under which the creditor is …. a bank …. the OFT shall make a determination that subsection 1(b) above applies unless it considers that it would be against the public interest to do so.

 

THE DETERMINATION:

 

The Determination (which is signed by the Director of Fair Trading) is made under section 74(3) of the Act. I set it out in full:

"1. Under the powers conferred upon me by s.74(3) and (3A) and s.133 of the Consumer Credit 1974, I, the Director General, being satisfied that it would not be against the public interest to do so, hereby revoke with effect from 1st February 1990 the Determination made by me in respect of Section 74(1)(b) and dated 3 November 1983 and now determine that with effect from 1st February 1990 Section 74(1)(b) shall apply to every debtor-creditor agreement enabling the debtor to overdraw on a current account, under which the creditor is a bank.

2. This Determination is made subject to the following conditions:-

(a) that the creditor shall have informed my Office in writing of his general intention to enter into agreements to which the Determination will apply;

(b) that where there is an agreement between a creditor and a debtor for the granting of credit in the form of an advance on a current account, the debtor shall be informed at the time or before the agreement is concluded:

- of the credit limit, if any,

- of the annual rate of interest and the charges applicable from the time the agreement is concluded and the conditions under which these may be amended,

- of the procedure for terminating the agreement;

and this information shall be confirmed in writing.

© that where a debtor overdraws his current account with the tacit agreement of the creditor and that account remains overdrawn for more than 3 months, the creditor must inform the debtor in writing not later than 7 days after the end of that 3 month period of the annual rate of interest and charges applicable.

3. In this Determination the terms 'creditor' and 'debtor' shall have the meanings assigned to them respectively by Section 189 of [the Act]. The term 'bank' includes the Bank of England and banks within the meaning of the Bankers' Books Evidence Act 1879 as amended."

[minivanman]

hungrybear, does this mean that I should have received a letter detailing the overdraft prior to it being given to me? I am at present waiting for a SAR reply from LTSB would such a letter be in that when it arrives and if not would that be grounds for putting the account into dispute? I don't remember getting any such letter but I will see what the SAR turns up.

[hungrybear]

hungrybear, does this mean that I should have received a letter detailing the overdraft prior to it being given to me? I am at present waiting for a SAR reply from LTSB would such a letter be in that when it arrives and if not would that be grounds for putting the account into dispute? I don't remember getting any such letter but I will see what the SAR turns up.

 

 

It has been argued - successfully - that non compliance with the directive constitutes a 78(6) dispute. Read item 2 of the directive that tells you exactly what the letter should be.

 

Often Creditors will attempt to say that a current account is not covered by the cca - and actually that is correct BUT an overdraft is NOT a current account it is a separate agreement.

 

I dont suppose they have sent you a 87(1) default notice for the overdraft have they?

[minivanman]

hungrybear, no they haven't.In fact I don't remember getting any default notice for the bank account which is one reason why I have sent for a SAR to see exactly what I am dealing with.

[Bazooka Boo]

BLS are Lloyds TSB' in-house collection agency.

I like their veiled threats "due to your lack of contact we can only 'assume' that you have no intention of paying this debt on a voluntary basis"

 

You should write back and inform them that making 'assumption' is not recommended as it will only make an ASS-out of-U-and-ME;)

[hungrybear]

hungrybear, no they haven't.In fact I don't remember getting any default notice for the bank account which is one reason why I have sent for a SAR to see exactly what I am dealing with.

 

 

Hopefully the SAR will come back with a comms log to confirm that no DN was ever issued.

 

At that point I would sit back keep my mouth shut and wait for them to terminate the agreement perhaps by court action.

 

The ONLY part of the CCA that does not apply to overdrafts is part V - form and content. That is the ONLY part. All the rest do apply esp. 87 88 76/98 when it comes to default and termination.

 

let me know what they come back with.