HELP - facing gross misconduct for internet use?

[mariefab]

Yes, in my opinion.

I agree with the earlier poster that you should SAR your employer to get the complete logs because it may show that the overall percentage was lower than 20%. If that one day of 40% was exceptional then selecting (randomly? you only have their word for that) just 4 other days to go with it is not enough to bring down the average. If they were considering a penalty as harsh as dismissal they should have used the complete log for accuracy's sake.

If you don't already have it also ask for all documentation relating to internet usage policies.

[K3NNY]

1 appeal is that all

Normally there are 2 appeal stages......

 

If you have a further appeal stage get the appeal in on the grounds that you had not fully researched the times and dates and barely had time to look over them. OR YOU HAD NO CONFIDENCE IN THE REPRESENTATION YOU WERE GIVEN.

 

Sack your union rep he seems a waste of space ask the union for a more senior member.........

 

Advise them you have sent a Sar request and to hold the appeal until both you and the senior Union Rep have had chance to go through the evidence.

if when the time for the new appeal arrives and you are not prepared ask for a further postponement.

 

Offer to the chair of the hearing that he replace the dismissal with unpaid suspension this normally does the trick.

CHECK THE BELOW PROCEDURE HAPPENED

 

The disciplinary

meeting

Tell the employee in writing:

- what they are alleged to have

done wrong

- the time and place for a meeting

- they have the right to be

accompanied

CHECK:

• carry out a thorough

investigation before

any meeting

• give the employee copies of

any information to be used

• arrange another meeting

within five days if the

employee or accompanying

person cannot attend

• consider fresh evidence

if necessary

 

At the meeting:

- state the evidence

- let the employee put their case

- let the accompanying

person ask questions

Adjourn to consider any action

(if necessary) and think about:

- previous sanctions

- employee’s record

- any special circumstances

Make your decision:

- inform the employee of the decision

and the right to appeal

 

IF IT HASNT YOU HAVE THE LOOP HOLE

[K3NNY]

Out Of Interest What Were Your Grounds For Appeal

[K3NNY]

GROSS MISCONDUCT

MISUSE OF COMPANY PROPERTY (ALBEIT YOU ARE A TAX PAYER AND PAY COUNCIL TAX)

THEFT OF COMPANY TIME

 

to sit on both sides of the fence for a minute

 

WHY THE HELL DO COUNCIL EMPLOYEES HAVE INTERNET ACCESS????????????

 

When was the last time you were made aware of the internet policy??????

did you sign a register acknowledging you understood it

If it was more than a year ago then you should be in the clear and the dismissal will be unsafe............

AS IT WILL THEN BE DEEMED COMMON PRACTICE

[mariefab]

To expand on my post #51.....

 

Check the internet policies to see when you are permitted personal internet use, lunchtime/breaks etc.

When you receive the complete set of logs; go through them and deduct any applicable time periods. Then recalculate the percentage.

 

I think you can be hopeful, at least for now. But unless the re-calculation considerably lowers the percentage you may not have a very strong case.

[yourbank]

Only thing to add to this one is about benefit payments.

I was sacked for gross misconduct almost a year ago so I know you can get JSA and if you may be eligible for Local Housing Allowance or housing benefit.

The one question, I haven't seen you answer is related to Internet policy and how often you were reminded about it(even if that means signing to say you have read a monthly information bit)?

Were you told how internet use is logged?

What is an adequate amount of time you can use the internet?

Last question, is when you were first pulled into the office did you look into their internet policy and reduce the amount of time you had the internet open for?

[adam246]

the only logs available are the 5 randon days which i was given copies of but tbh didnt check thru them and took their word it amounted to 20%... my union rep has that file with allevidence.

 

a senior rep should have accompanied me to the appeal meeting but was told he was ill and couldnt come!

 

the key points for my appeal my rep gave were:

1) Decision was inconsistent with other cases of this kind;

2) Offer to repay the time I used was not properly considered;

3) Previous good conduct was not taken into account;

4) A statement made in the chairs summary referred to continued use of the internet, which was originally thrown out, but clearly had a bearing on the decision when it shouldn’t have been referred to in the first place.

 

 

i offered to give my holiday which was over 20 days... still werent havin it!!

 

policy says u can use internet whenever really as long as u show it as a break on time sheet.

 

i think i was given the policy when i first started but cant remebre tbh and they reminded us at a team meeting was about familiarising oursleves wuith the policy.

 

also when u log in to ur pc u some times get a msg saying net use is monitored.

 

when i was told about the net use i tried to get hold of the policy via the intranet and could i get it... not a chance!

i had to email HR to get hold of a copy... so accessibility to the polict is an issue but my rep never reaklly pushed on this!

 

i am not ware of 2 appeal stages, my rep said next step is tribunal?

[K3NNY]

What does the last letter say ? i presume it is the letter upholding the decision say about further appeals???

It should say you have no further appeals on the letter......

Or it may say you have a further right of appeal.

 

When did you find out the senior rep couldnt make it?

 

and what options were made available to you with regard representation? as your rep was ill......

 

Had you had meetings with the senior rep was he preparing a case for you or is this all the "handy work" of the junior rep?

 

Who is your union is it Unison? check out the next post off their website

 

If so contact their head office and explain your plight.........

There could have been a precedent set at another council im sure there will have been where someone of your status in the company or even higher got a slap on the wrist they will know about it.

Edited January 24, 2010 by K3NNY

[K3NNY]

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UNISON DOCUMENT The Right To Be Accompanied

 

Information and guidance on the right to be accompanied.

• an employer fails to allow a worker to be accompanied at a disciplinary or grievance hearing; or
  

 

• fails to re-arrange a hearing to a reasonable date proposed by the worker when a companion cannot attend on the date originally proposed.
  

Complaints must be presented within three months of failure. If the tribunal finds in favour of the worker, the employer may be liable to pay up to two weeks pay.

Both the worker seeking to be accompanied and the worker chosen to accompany them are protected from detriment and dismissal. As noted above, the companion is protected from retribution by their own employer, even if they accompany someone working for another employer.

It is automatically unfair to dismiss someone for trying to exercise the right to be accompanied. There is no qualifying period for this protection, and it extends to all workers, not just employees. Furthermore, there is no age cut off where the protection ends, unlike most unfair dismissal rights which end when the employee reaches retirement age.

If an employer tries to dismiss a worker under these provisions there is a right to ‘interim relief’, providing re-instatement or full pay until an employment tribunal hears the full claim.

In addition, an unreasonable refusal to allow an employee to be accompanied to a disciplinary hearing may be used as evidence in any subsequent unfair dismissal proceedings. Tribunals are likely to regard the employer’s refusal to allow the worker to be accompanied as resulting in a procedurally unfair dismissal

[adam246]

not got my letter yet as only had appeal hearing a few days ago.

 

my rep from work told me on the day of the appeal that senior rep couldnt come.

 

my work union rep had attended all meeting with me and prepared any notes / actions for the meeting.

[blazer666_uk]

How did it go

[adam246]

How did it go

 

not very well as they decide to uphold their decision to sack!!

 

been advised by union not to pursue it any further!

[blazer666_uk]

Oh dear I am sorry to hear that and surprised about the decision by the union. I would appeal at every stage, this is very unfair and my thoughts are with you.

 

Good luck and all the best

[adam246]

well some good news...

 

i been approached a by a firm who want to take my case on after reading my thread so im gona see how that goes!

[honeybee13]

That's good news Adam, hope they can help. Please keep us posted, HB.

[blazer666_uk]

Yes good luck and keep us updated.

 

All the best

[steven4064]

How much do they want up front?

[adam246]

How much do they want up front?

nothin yet its a no win no fee type agreement with an agreed fixed amount they would take of any compensation.