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Logbook Loans And Your Insurance- Beware

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Evening all.....

 

my name is bullyuk and believe me i thought i knew alot about logbook loans and the goings on but something new has come to light that i think everyone who has a loan with them needs to be aware of.

 

i am currently in a legal battle with an ex franchisee of logbook loaqns that i got my loan with. he was with them when i got the lpoan then sacked few days later......this was last may and from then it has been a constant battle to get to the pont we are in now.....we head to court next thursday 10th december to fight it out.....there are many problems to sort out so if anyone wants to know what has been happening or how i have dealt please mail me and we can discuss

BUT

the following happened 2 weeks ago and has really worried me....

i was in a car accident on the m25 and someone ran into the back of me. totally wrote there car off and dented back of mine.....he apologised and we exchanged details.

i contacted my insurance company immediately and started the ball rolling.

they booked me into garage and this i did......his insurance accepted full liability and i was told i had nothin to pay so happy days.....then 4 days into my car beng at the garage i received a letter from my insurance company stating my insrance was invalid and was now void.

i called them immediately and was passed to legal side who then proceeded to inform me that the moment i signed the loan agreement the car no longer belonged to me and so the legal documentation i agreed to with the insurance is now void as i am no longer the legal owner.

this is a breach of the agreement and so the policy was invalid.

 

now i have sorted my car...his insurance company had paid for it to be sorted so that side is sorted but what i think people need to know is that if it was the other way around and i had smashed into his car i would be liable for ALL repairs AND according to the police i would have been prosecuted for driving with no insurance.

 

I have had a solicitor check into this is and it is all above board. Insurance companies insure you and your car. not someone elses car.

 

from all the guys on here who have helped in the past i am trying to find out what legal implications this holds for logbook loans.......on there paperwork they state you MUST keep up all insurance payments and keep the csar insured BUT nowhere does it state thet the insurance is invalid by actually having a loan with them in the first place.

 

I got off lightly but if someone else crashes and its their fault the story will not be so lucky.....

 

i am trying to delay the court hearing next week to get some more details and the legal complications it has or can have.

 

i look forward to hearing views and comments.

 

cheers

bullyuk

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Im not sure but unless they had registered the V5 in there name, please correct me if Im wrong but if the BOS and CA are not actionable then the title of the car is still yours. And this would make you the legal registered owner keeper. So there for the insurance is valid.

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Im not sure but unless they had registered the V5 in there name, please correct me if Im wrong but if the BOS and CA are not actionable then the title of the car is still yours. And this would make you the legal registered owner keeper. So there for the insurance is valid.

 

 

V5 is not proof of owner anyway, just current "keeper" :(

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evening.....yes there is an argument that because the bill of sale as far as i am concerned was illegally warranted and the Credit agreement void due to incorect wording then yes the car still legally mine....but this is not what i am trying to resolve.....i have no problems going to court next week but I was shocked to find that accordin to my insurance company (swiftcover) the loan agreement makes the car there property until paid in full. this makes the insurance invalid.

for me it was no problem as the other insurance company paid for repairs but what if it was other way round and i crashed into someone else and my insurance was invalid.

Thats what I think needs to be addressed.

Cheers anyway....

All the best

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yes v5 in not proof of ownership but registered loan against the car is makes the car legally theres until loan paid for in full and bos removed.

 

basically the insurance company state that any change in ownership needs to be informed to them

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Hi well thats simple everyone needs to be aware of this and the day the loan is taken out then a call to your insurance company telling them of this, then you are covered.

The other point if LBL dont make reference advising their customers of the amendment needed to keep the drivers safe and insured ,then they must be in breach of fair trading regulations. And surly the data protection act principle 4.

Can any site guys help here.

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hi again nicky. many thanks for your mail and ys that is exactly what i was thinking. i am going to go through the fair trading regulations this evening to see what breaches they have made.

hopefully the guys on here can advise and push in right direction...

i have received so much help on here over last year concerning logbok loans......cheers all...

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Hi guys

 

Bulldog has a point, so the car would be uninsured yes? so if you was driving it what's to stop them stating that the car was TWOC? You have to have their permission to drive it, yes? Bulldog I would not put it passed them, we all know that insurance companys will use any way off not paying out.

 

So if the car belongs to a finance company what of HP, the car still owned by the finance company....

 

trooper68


Trooper68:)

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I agree Trooper the only time that they can enforce their legal ownership is when you default on payment and they then take legal ownership under the BOS CA. Not untill then.

If there was a question is the car on finance by the insurance company then this would then have to be given.

Then if this information isnt forwarded to the Insurance comapny then you would in a breach of your terms and conditions and CA with them.

I have alot of dealings with insurance companies and they will not payout if they can avoid it at any cost.

They get away with so many claims legaly placed because the policy holder just takes their word for it and goes away.

 

I SAY CHALLENGE THEM. ASKING WHAT IN THEIR EYES MAKES THE LBL COMPANY THE LEGAL OWNERS OF THE CAR.

Then come back and tell the outcome

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Evening Nicky.

Yes insurance companies are always trying to get out of paying but not in this case. There was nothing for them to pay. The other insurance company took full liability. Even after they cancelled my insurance and I called them they told me the other insurance company had to cary out the repairs and gave me the contact details and reference numbers to sort the matter out. The repairs have been carried out and the vehicle is ready tomorrow to pick up with no charge as all covered.

The insurance company told me that new legislation has meant that loans secured against a car with necessary paperwork makes legal ownership of the vehicle questionable and so they will not insure and the insurance becomes invalid.

My company were good enough to repay the last years payments I had made to them.

Up until this moment I have not reinsured the car with the loan as after explaining to other companies the loan situation no one would insure me for it at least until my court case is sorted against logbook loans.

 

I look forward to hearing what areas of fair trading regulations and data protection acts they may be effected by this problem.

 

many thanks all

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I find this story amazing....This could have massive implications, especially so in a really bad accident. If it was me I would be talking to the press/motoring press and my MP. I have also made the site team aware of this too.


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evening 42man

yes the more i think about it the more it concerns me.

my situation was very fortunate that the accident was not my fault but god ony knows the mess if someone who has a loan causes a crash and a serious one at that. there will be no cover whatsoever and things could get very complicated.....

on the other side if what the insurance companies are saying is true then taking a loan out with logbok loans or any other company for that matter then means getting insurance is impossible.

do you have any advice as to who i should contact to move this forward...i am going into court tomorrow to adjourn my court case with logbook loans next thursday as i want to look into this matter for legal complications.

cheers

bullyuk

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I wonder if LBL could be prosecuted for allowing you to drive a car without valid insurance. Perhaps you could ask the police about that. What happens when you want to tax it? I think this is something else the OFT need to be made aware of.


 

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Hi,

What I had to do to TAX my car was call LBL and they give you the numbers needed to do the application on line.

I think that gives us all a better leave rage and another point to fight them with.

Because of the requirement by law all cars have to have insurance,

then either LBL will have to have their own insurance for every car they have put under the CA or they have to change their method of security.

And because LBL are a secured loan company only, this could be another way to push them off the market place.

Insurance companies would have the upper hand in the market, just because of how many there is.

I can see only one way forward and that is to challenge legislation allowing this kind of trading because of the legal implications on the driver of the car.

They are deceiving their clients again, but this time the effect is not just the way they enforce debts but causing the potential of a primal record for driving uninsured or lie to gain insurance.

NOONE shal be put in this kind in a situation that would force a person to break the law because of a loan.

IT is wrong wrong wrong.

I feel this goes above the OFT but straight to Parliament.

This is the tool that will stop this kind of trading for good.

This should definitely give us more power to fight them in a court room.

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I wonder if LBL could be prosecuted for allowing you to drive a car without valid insurance. Perhaps you could ask the police about that. What happens when you want to tax it? I think this is something else the OFT need to be made aware of.

 

 

I wondering along that point, If they own the car, you will need to have their permission to drive it, from what I have see on there paperwork their is nothing regarding this. This courld back fire, imagine if everyone turned up and asked for permission to drive the cars all at the same time, they will need to put it in writing, or everyone dumping there cars in there hands. What about parking tickets...they own the car don't they, Yeah imaging everyone getting a parking ticket...happy days

 

trooper68


Trooper68:)

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Very Very interesting... with regards to the parking tickets, i think they are down to the driver not the owner.. But everyone ringing up every time they want to drive their cars and asking for permission in writing would be tremendous fun dont you think?

 

oooh i see it now :-)

 

UKD

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LOL like it, sounds as if we could have some fun with these guys after all.

It looks alot as if they have neglected alot of issues that legal owners need to address like having to MOT the cars to and maybe a maintenance plan as well. Lets face it if we are not the legal owner of the car then why should we care if its looked after or not.they put what ever price they want when selling it.

If they had to insure it watch them lose their no claims bonus.

They make good reference to looking after the car, what about duty of care to their clients

Or protecting their interest in their security, by advising about the insurance issue.

I feel that this company not only put us at risk of an illegal repossession but if uninsured can jeopardise everything we own in case of an accident.

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Very Very interesting... with regards to the parking tickets, i think they are down to the driver not the owner.. But everyone ringing up every time they want to drive their cars and asking for permission in writing would be tremendous fun dont you think?

 

oooh i see it now :-)

 

UKD

 

Imagine you getting a parking ticket, how can they prove you where driving it? No sir not me, I don't own the car, LbL own it. No, sir, where, speeding on the a406, no sir, summons to LBL...now do it 1000 fold.

Very Happy Days...

 

trooper68


Trooper68:)

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Imagine you getting a parking ticket, how can they prove you where driving it? No sir not me, I don't own the car, LbL own it. No, sir, where, speeding on the a406, no sir, summons to LBL...now do it 1000 fold.

Very Happy Days...

 

trooper68

 

aaah see where you re coming from.... yes yes yes very nice idea.

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If we cannt insure the cars why bother with MOT and TAX. So maybe we have a claim for payments of insurance and MOT refunds as well as Tax refunds that we have paid ilegaly. Its food for thought.

Infact we might as well cut the car up and make a coffe table out of it. At least it will have some use

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aaah see where you re coming from.... yes yes yes very nice idea.

 

Now, if you did get a parking ticket would they pay it-no, they will send it to you, if you ask why "cos you own the car or keeper" eer no, not according to you I don't- you do. Can you put that in writing please LBL? can you prove I was driving it? I can't cos my insurance is invalid, cos i cannot-my insurance states I cannot insure for someone else. Would you mind if I give the police your details cos you have an unisured car on the road....

 

(evil wicked smirk)

 

trooper68


Trooper68:)

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If we cannt insure the cars why bother with MOT and TAX. So maybe we have a claim for payments of insurance and MOT refunds as well as Tax refunds that we have paid ilegaly. Its food for thought.

Infact we might as well cut the car up and make a coffe table out of it. At least it will have some use

 

 

You can't nicky, they OWN the car- so you leave it, let the local council collect it and bill them....to remove it-summons...

 

trooper68


Trooper68:)

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Now, if you did get a parking ticket would they pay it-no, they will send it to you, if you ask why "cos you own the car or keeper" eer no, not according to you I don't- you do. Can you put that in writing please LBL? can you prove I was driving it? I can't cos my insurance is invalid, cos i cannot-my insurance states I cannot insure for someone else. Would you mind if I give the police your details cos you have an unisured car on the road....

 

(evil wicked smirk)

 

trooper68

 

me likes!!!

 

only thing... would they not have some kind of fleet insurance that would cover them in this instance?

 

UKD

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can anyone on site team advice us if we can sue LBL for putting our driving licenses in jeopardy for not advising of the insurance not being valid. There must be a case to be had for this alone

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me likes!!!

 

only thing... would they not have some kind of fleet insurance that would cover them in this instance?

 

UKD

 

only trade plates, but they are not dealers are they..

 

trooper68


Trooper68:)

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style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 2655 days.

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