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    • I've inserted their poc re:your.. 1 ..they did send 2 paploc's  3. neither the agreement nor default is mentioned in their 2.        
    • Hi Guys, i read a fair few threads and saw a lot of similar templates being used. i liked this one below and although i could elaborate on certain things (they ignored my CCA and sent 2 PAPs etc etc) , am i right in that at this stage keep it short? If thats the case i cant see what i need to add/change about this one   1)   the defendant entered into a consumer credit act 1974 regulated agreements vanquis under account reference xxxxxxx 2)   The defendant failed to maintain the required payment, arrears began to accrue 3)   The agreement was later assigned to the claimant on 29 September 2017 and notice given to the defendant 4)   Despite repeated requests for payment, the sum of 2247.91 remains due outstanding And the claimant claims a)The said sum of £2247.91 b)The interest pursuant to S 69 county courts act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum from the date of issue, accruing at a daily rate of £xxxx, but limited to one year,  being £xxxx c)Costs   Defence:   The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim vague and are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.   1. The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC ( Pre Action Protocol) Failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017.It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.   2. The Claimant claims £2247.91 is owed under a regulated consumer credit account under reference xxxxxxx. I do not recall the precise details or agreement and have sought verification from the claimant and the claimants solicitor by way of a CPR 31.14 and section 78 request who are yet to fully comply.   3. Paragraph 2 is denied. I am unable to recall the precise details of the alleged agreement or any default notice served in breach of any defaulted payments. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied.The Defendant contends that no notice of assignment pursuant to s.136 of the Law of Property Act & s.82 A of the CCA1974 has ever been served by the Claimant as alleged or at all.   5. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of assignment/balance/breach requested by CPR 31. 14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:   (a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and (b) show and evidence any cause of action and service of a Default Notice or termination notice; and © show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;   6. After receiving this claim I requested by way of a CPR 31.14 request and a section 78 request for copies of any documents referred to within the Claimants' particulars to establish what the claim is for. To date they have failed to comply to my CPR 31.14 request and also my section 78 request and remain in default with regards to this request.   7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.   8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.   9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.  
    • i understand. Just be aware I am prepared to take some risks 😉
    • Thanks Tnook,   Bear with us while we discuss this behind the scenes - we want you to win just as much as you do but we want to find the right balance between maximising your claim without risking too much in court fees, and in possible court costs awarded to the defendant bank.
    • Tell your son and think on this. He can pay the £160  and have no further worries from them. If he read POFA  Scedule 4 he would find out that if he went to Court and lost which is unlikely on two counts at least [1] they don't do Court and 2] they know they would lose in Court] the most he would be liable to pay them is £100 or whatever the amount on the sign says. He is not liable for the admin charges as that only applies to the driver-perhaps.If he kept his nerve, he would find out that he does not owe them a penny and that applies to the driver as well. But we do need to see the signage at the entrance to the car park and around the car park as well as any T&Cs on the payment meter if there is one. He alone has to work out whether it is worth taking a few photographs to help avoid paying a single penny to these crooks as well as receiving letters threatening him with Court , bailiffs  etc trying to scare him into paying money he does not owe. They know they cannot take him to Court. They know he does not owe them a penny. But they are hoping he does not know so he pays them. If he does decide to pay, tell him to wait as eventually as a last throw of the dice they play Mister Nice Guy and offer a reduction. Great. Whatever he pays them it will be far more than he owes as their original PCN is worthless. Read other threads where our members have been ticketed for not having a permit. [We know so little about the situation that we do not know if he has a permit and forgot to display it. ]
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Hi,

 

This weekend I travelled with a friend from the north of London to Greenwich, only to be hit with a pair of penalty notices.

 

At every point I touched in and out, it wasn't busy, so I wasn't pushed through the barriers, no 'seek assistance' notices were shown and everything went smoothly until I was pulled aside by a ticket inspector after trying to read my card.

 

I have no idea why, but having looked at my travel history on the oyster topup points all the times of travel are correct, all the destinations are correct but the origin station is always the place I started travelling in the morning. So far as I understand if I hadn't touched in and out then the times wouldn't be right and I wouldn't have been physically able to pass the gates.

 

Furthermore to this I have only lived in London for a short time and recently started renting here. The inspector was threatening, agressive, reduced my friend to tears and threatened to detain me for not carrying photographic ID (something which I'm not legally obliged to do and as a non-driver I don't have a licence) and whoever they contact over the phone didn't have my details at that address. He also shouted at me 'You are obviously trying to decieve me and aren't telling the truth' and when I asked why he was accusing me of lying he threatened me with 'serious consequences' if I accused him of calling me a liar. The phrase 'or else' was used quite often too.

 

I know for a fact I complied with their rules, I have a photo of the screen on the oyster topup terminal with their incorrect travel history on it. If I touch in and out and no warnings are given that there is a problem I don't think that realistically a fine is deserved for what looks like a technical glitch.

 

What is the best way to tackle this? It's not fair to have to pay a fine under these circumstances and equally I don't think for a minute that the inspector should be allowed to get away with being abusive and threatening.

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Hi,

 

This weekend I travelled with a friend from the north of London to Greenwich, only to be hit with a pair of penalty notices.

 

At every point I touched in and out, it wasn't busy, so I wasn't pushed through the barriers, no 'seek assistance' notices were shown and everything went smoothly until I was pulled aside by a ticket inspector after trying to read my card.

 

I have no idea why, but having looked at my travel history on the oyster topup points all the times of travel are correct, all the destinations are correct but the origin station is always the place I started travelling in the morning. So far as I understand if I hadn't touched in and out then the times wouldn't be right and I wouldn't have been physically able to pass the gates.

 

Furthermore to this I have only lived in London for a short time and recently started renting here. The inspector was threatening, agressive, reduced my friend to tears and threatened to detain me for not carrying photographic ID (something which I'm not legally obliged to do and as a non-driver I don't have a licence) and whoever they contact over the phone didn't have my details at that address. He also shouted at me 'You are obviously trying to decieve me and aren't telling the truth' and when I asked why he was accusing me of lying he threatened me with 'serious consequences' if I accused him of calling me a liar. The phrase 'or else' was used quite often too.

 

I know for a fact I complied with their rules, I have a photo of the screen on the oyster topup terminal with their incorrect travel history on it. If I touch in and out and no warnings are given that there is a problem I don't think that realistically a fine is deserved for what looks like a technical glitch.

 

What is the best way to tackle this? It's not fair to have to pay a fine under these circumstances and equally I don't think for a minute that the inspector should be allowed to get away with being abusive and threatening.

 

Firstly, I would say that the place to make any complaint or accusation of aggressive & threatening behaviour by the inspector is in writing to the Customer Relations Department at DLR and not on this public forum.

 

If you were issued a Penalty Fare Notice then you should write to

 

The Penalty Fares Administrator

(K. Thienel)

Serco-Docklands

Poplar Depot

Castor Lane

London

E1 0DS

 

Telephone: 0207 363 9500

 

You can obtain a full print-out of your Oyster transactions over the last 8 weeks free of charge by applying to the Oyster Records Help-line and should do so as soon as possible. You can then send a copy with your letter to the PF Administrator, but remember, you only have 21 days to lodge your appeal.

 

I would forget about all the third party opinion ( that you are bound to get ) of an incident that none of us were present at for the time being and get your appeal made as soon as possible

Edited by Old-CodJA

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Thanks - that is exactly the information I was after. The ticket doesn't give any phone contact details and the ticket inspector wouldn't say anything more than 'if you don't like it talk to Boris Johnson'.

 

I sent the letter yesterday (to dispute the fine, I'll tackle the issue with the ticket inspector afterwards) and have a proof of postage slip detailing when the letter was sent.

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I finally got an answer - it looks like they realise a mistake has been made but aren't actually willing to admit it. The letter says that the penalty fare has been dropped from £25 each to just £4, raising to £50 with my details being passed to an enforement company and a summons if I don't pay in 10 days (not easy with christmas post, and it'd cost me more as much as the fine to go an pay it in person and I'd have to use their service to do it). It also says that 'no correspondence will be entered into'.

 

This gives me a little problem - I'm sure the £4 they want is a standard penalty fare, but this was paid from the oyster card due to the ticket inspector not allowing us to touch out so I don't think it's fair to be made to pay twice for a (really terrible) service.

 

But principles aside it's not enough to take time off work to fight about because I'd end up losing more than that.

 

Is there any way that I can just this and then take it up with someone further down the line? I'd also like to know who to talk to with respect to the ticket inspectors behaviour.

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No, the £4 charge is NOT a penalty fare

 

The £4 is the single fare due for travelling within Zone 1 without having previously paid the fare.

 

You can pay the fares due within the time period allowed by their letter, thereby making it impossible for them to issue a Summons alleging non-payment and then write outlining your complaint to:

 

Mr Peter Hendy,

Commissioner, (Surface Transport)

Transport for London,

Empress State Building

Empress Approach

London

SW6 1TR

 

I suppose it goes without saying, you should stick to the facts of what occurred when writing, but it may be helpful to recognise that all too often complaints are received wherein the 'facts' are embellished with accusations that are either, irrelevant or, a distortion of what actually happened.

 

DLR is one of the most highly monitored transport systems in the country.

 

Stick to commenting on the apparent error that you believe is evident in relation to your Oyster and what was actually said by the Inspector, otherwise, as is so often the case when travellers claim to have been abused or mistreated when no such activity occurred, the whole complaint is likely to be doubted.

Edited by Old-CodJA

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thanks,

 

It's just hard to make a good judgement from the letter they send out because it contains no facts whatsoever regarding the decision they made. Had they given me that information I'd have been a lot happier about just putting a cheque in the post without even thinking about it. This information should come from them and not a volunteer on a forum.

 

Maybe a little communication is all that's needed here...

 

I'll just pay the thing if it balances everything out fairly

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I posted them a cheque as per their letter on the 23rd December and got a proof of postage certificate at the time.

 

Thing is looking at my bank account I've not seen the cheque cashed and the 10 days has obviously long gone.

 

How likely are they to press for the £100 full penalty (50 per person)? What is the best thing to do to cover myself at this point?

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I believe you should be ok.

 

My knowledge isn't too great on the matter, but I'm fairly certain that as long as the cheque was posted within reasonable time then you're covered by the "postal rule" where you've done what is reasonably expected of you but it's genuinely held up in the post.

 

Unless of course they couldn't be bothered to cash it

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I posted them a cheque as per their letter on the 23rd December and got a proof of postage certificate at the time.

 

Thing is looking at my bank account I've not seen the cheque cashed and the 10 days has obviously long gone.

 

How likely are they to press for the £100 full penalty (50 per person)? What is the best thing to do to cover myself at this point?

 

 

How did you get on? Has the original cheque now been cashed?

 

The only problem that you have is in that you only got proof of posting. That doesn't record that they received any letter and neither can it confirm what was in any envelope.

 

It's easy to be wise after the event I know, but 'recorded delivery' or 'signed for' post is always the best bet in these cases.

 

If it hasn't been paid and the time allowed has lapsed, they could press for the orginal penalty, which is as you rightly say £50 per person.

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