More DLR problems

[tiredTraveller]

Hi,

 

This weekend I travelled with a friend from the north of London to Greenwich, only to be hit with a pair of penalty notices.

 

At every point I touched in and out, it wasn't busy, so I wasn't pushed through the barriers, no 'seek assistance' notices were shown and everything went smoothly until I was pulled aside by a ticket inspector after trying to read my card.

 

I have no idea why, but having looked at my travel history on the oyster topup points all the times of travel are correct, all the destinations are correct but the origin station is always the place I started travelling in the morning. So far as I understand if I hadn't touched in and out then the times wouldn't be right and I wouldn't have been physically able to pass the gates.

 

Furthermore to this I have only lived in London for a short time and recently started renting here. The inspector was threatening, agressive, reduced my friend to tears and threatened to detain me for not carrying photographic ID (something which I'm not legally obliged to do and as a non-driver I don't have a licence) and whoever they contact over the phone didn't have my details at that address. He also shouted at me 'You are obviously trying to decieve me and aren't telling the truth' and when I asked why he was accusing me of lying he threatened me with 'serious consequences' if I accused him of calling me a liar. The phrase 'or else' was used quite often too.

 

I know for a fact I complied with their rules, I have a photo of the screen on the oyster topup terminal with their incorrect travel history on it. If I touch in and out and no warnings are given that there is a problem I don't think that realistically a fine is deserved for what looks like a technical glitch.

 

What is the best way to tackle this? It's not fair to have to pay a fine under these circumstances and equally I don't think for a minute that the inspector should be allowed to get away with being abusive and threatening.

[Old-CodJA]

Hi,

 

This weekend I travelled with a friend from the north of London to Greenwich, only to be hit with a pair of penalty notices.

 

At every point I touched in and out, it wasn't busy, so I wasn't pushed through the barriers, no 'seek assistance' notices were shown and everything went smoothly until I was pulled aside by a ticket inspector after trying to read my card.

 

I have no idea why, but having looked at my travel history on the oyster topup points all the times of travel are correct, all the destinations are correct but the origin station is always the place I started travelling in the morning. So far as I understand if I hadn't touched in and out then the times wouldn't be right and I wouldn't have been physically able to pass the gates.

 

Furthermore to this I have only lived in London for a short time and recently started renting here. The inspector was threatening, agressive, reduced my friend to tears and threatened to detain me for not carrying photographic ID (something which I'm not legally obliged to do and as a non-driver I don't have a licence) and whoever they contact over the phone didn't have my details at that address. He also shouted at me 'You are obviously trying to decieve me and aren't telling the truth' and when I asked why he was accusing me of lying he threatened me with 'serious consequences' if I accused him of calling me a liar. The phrase 'or else' was used quite often too.

 

I know for a fact I complied with their rules, I have a photo of the screen on the oyster topup terminal with their incorrect travel history on it. If I touch in and out and no warnings are given that there is a problem I don't think that realistically a fine is deserved for what looks like a technical glitch.

 

What is the best way to tackle this? It's not fair to have to pay a fine under these circumstances and equally I don't think for a minute that the inspector should be allowed to get away with being abusive and threatening.

 

Firstly, I would say that the place to make any complaint or accusation of aggressive & threatening behaviour by the inspector is in writing to the Customer Relations Department at DLR and not on this public forum.

 

If you were issued a Penalty Fare Notice then you should write to

 

The Penalty Fares Administrator

(K. Thienel)

Serco-Docklands

Poplar Depot

Castor Lane

London

E1 0DS

 

Telephone: 0207 363 9500

 

You can obtain a full print-out of your Oyster transactions over the last 8 weeks free of charge by applying to the Oyster Records Help-line and should do so as soon as possible. You can then send a copy with your letter to the PF Administrator, but remember, you only have 21 days to lodge your appeal.

 

I would forget about all the third party opinion ( that you are bound to get ) of an incident that none of us were present at for the time being and get your appeal made as soon as possible

Edited December 2, 2009 by Old-CodJA

[tiredTraveller]

Thanks - that is exactly the information I was after. The ticket doesn't give any phone contact details and the ticket inspector wouldn't say anything more than 'if you don't like it talk to Boris Johnson'.

 

I sent the letter yesterday (to dispute the fine, I'll tackle the issue with the ticket inspector afterwards) and have a proof of postage slip detailing when the letter was sent.

[tiredTraveller]

I finally got an answer - it looks like they realise a mistake has been made but aren't actually willing to admit it. The letter says that the penalty fare has been dropped from £25 each to just £4, raising to £50 with my details being passed to an enforement company and a summons if I don't pay in 10 days (not easy with christmas post, and it'd cost me more as much as the fine to go an pay it in person and I'd have to use their service to do it). It also says that 'no correspondence will be entered into'.

 

This gives me a little problem - I'm sure the £4 they want is a standard penalty fare, but this was paid from the oyster card due to the ticket inspector not allowing us to touch out so I don't think it's fair to be made to pay twice for a (really terrible) service.

 

But principles aside it's not enough to take time off work to fight about because I'd end up losing more than that.

 

Is there any way that I can just this and then take it up with someone further down the line? I'd also like to know who to talk to with respect to the ticket inspectors behaviour.

[Old-CodJA]

No, the £4 charge is NOT a penalty fare

 

The £4 is the single fare due for travelling within Zone 1 without having previously paid the fare.

 

You can pay the fares due within the time period allowed by their letter, thereby making it impossible for them to issue a Summons alleging non-payment and then write outlining your complaint to:

 

Mr Peter Hendy,

Commissioner, (Surface Transport)

Transport for London,

Empress State Building

Empress Approach

London

SW6 1TR

 

I suppose it goes without saying, you should stick to the facts of what occurred when writing, but it may be helpful to recognise that all too often complaints are received wherein the 'facts' are embellished with accusations that are either, irrelevant or, a distortion of what actually happened.

 

DLR is one of the most highly monitored transport systems in the country.

 

Stick to commenting on the apparent error that you believe is evident in relation to your Oyster and what was actually said by the Inspector, otherwise, as is so often the case when travellers claim to have been abused or mistreated when no such activity occurred, the whole complaint is likely to be doubted.

Edited December 22, 2009 by Old-CodJA

[tiredTraveller]

thanks,

 

It's just hard to make a good judgement from the letter they send out because it contains no facts whatsoever regarding the decision they made. Had they given me that information I'd have been a lot happier about just putting a cheque in the post without even thinking about it. This information should come from them and not a volunteer on a forum.

 

Maybe a little communication is all that's needed here...

 

I'll just pay the thing if it balances everything out fairly

[tiredTraveller]

I posted them a cheque as per their letter on the 23rd December and got a proof of postage certificate at the time.

 

Thing is looking at my bank account I've not seen the cheque cashed and the 10 days has obviously long gone.

 

How likely are they to press for the £100 full penalty (50 per person)? What is the best thing to do to cover myself at this point?

[sneaksms]

I believe you should be ok.

 

My knowledge isn't too great on the matter, but I'm fairly certain that as long as the cheque was posted within reasonable time then you're covered by the "postal rule" where you've done what is reasonably expected of you but it's genuinely held up in the post.

 

Unless of course they couldn't be bothered to cash it

[Old-CodJA]

I posted them a cheque as per their letter on the 23rd December and got a proof of postage certificate at the time.

 

Thing is looking at my bank account I've not seen the cheque cashed and the 10 days has obviously long gone.

 

How likely are they to press for the £100 full penalty (50 per person)? What is the best thing to do to cover myself at this point?

 

 

How did you get on? Has the original cheque now been cashed?

 

The only problem that you have is in that you only got proof of posting. That doesn't record that they received any letter and neither can it confirm what was in any envelope.

 

It's easy to be wise after the event I know, but 'recorded delivery' or 'signed for' post is always the best bet in these cases.

 

If it hasn't been paid and the time allowed has lapsed, they could press for the orginal penalty, which is as you rightly say £50 per person.