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    • I'm afraid that standing on principles almost always involves a bit of risk. I hadn't noticed the case that you have referred to – and our site team member @Andyorch has already commented on it that there is a lottery in so far as judges are concerned. I haven't seen the claim form and I don't know precisely how it was argued in court. I feel very strongly that the decision is wrong because it effectively allows contractual terms to overcome statutory rights – and this has to be in error. Whatever the case, it is most likely that Hermes will simply put their hands up and pay you out and if you had claimed 5 pounds more they would have done the same. Even if they had gone to court, your chances of winning on a claim for the £25 would be better than 95% and the worst you might have expected would have been for the court to refuse to award you the extra 4 pounds and simply to give you the £25. I think that Hermes and the other courier companies rely on the fact that their customers don't have sufficient confidence to refuse to pay for the extra insurance. Clearly this is something which needs to be tested at a reasonably within the court structure but of course this is most unlikely to happen given the value of claims. I was sorry to see that your original reason for not claiming the full value was that   I asked you to post up your claim form. I think it will be helpful if you did that.
    • I've inserted their poc re:your.. 1 ..they did send 2 paploc's  3. neither the agreement nor default is mentioned in their 2.        
    • Hi Guys, i read a fair few threads and saw a lot of similar templates being used. i liked this one below and although i could elaborate on certain things (they ignored my CCA and sent 2 PAPs etc etc) , am i right in that at this stage keep it short? If thats the case i cant see what i need to add/change about this one   1)   the defendant entered into a consumer credit act 1974 regulated agreements vanquis under account reference xxxxxxx 2)   The defendant failed to maintain the required payment, arrears began to accrue 3)   The agreement was later assigned to the claimant on 29 September 2017 and notice given to the defendant 4)   Despite repeated requests for payment, the sum of 2247.91 remains due outstanding And the claimant claims a)The said sum of £2247.91 b)The interest pursuant to S 69 county courts act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum from the date of issue, accruing at a daily rate of £xxxx, but limited to one year,  being £xxxx c)Costs   Defence:   The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim vague and are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.   1. The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC ( Pre Action Protocol) Failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017.It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.   2. The Claimant claims £2247.91 is owed under a regulated consumer credit account under reference xxxxxxx. I do not recall the precise details or agreement and have sought verification from the claimant and the claimants solicitor by way of a CPR 31.14 and section 78 request who are yet to fully comply.   3. Paragraph 2 is denied. I am unable to recall the precise details of the alleged agreement or any default notice served in breach of any defaulted payments. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied.The Defendant contends that no notice of assignment pursuant to s.136 of the Law of Property Act & s.82 A of the CCA1974 has ever been served by the Claimant as alleged or at all.   5. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of assignment/balance/breach requested by CPR 31. 14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:   (a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and (b) show and evidence any cause of action and service of a Default Notice or termination notice; and © show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;   6. After receiving this claim I requested by way of a CPR 31.14 request and a section 78 request for copies of any documents referred to within the Claimants' particulars to establish what the claim is for. To date they have failed to comply to my CPR 31.14 request and also my section 78 request and remain in default with regards to this request.   7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.   8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.   9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.  
    • i understand. Just be aware I am prepared to take some risks 😉
    • Thanks Tnook,   Bear with us while we discuss this behind the scenes - we want you to win just as much as you do but we want to find the right balance between maximising your claim without risking too much in court fees, and in possible court costs awarded to the defendant bank.
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Crap Quest

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Hi

 

i have an account that has been in dispute with MBNA (Virgin Credit Card) since July when i asked them for a copy of the agreement and thay haven't sent me one.

 

they have now sold the debt to Crap Quest who have provided me with a joke of a copy of the the agreement with no signatures, just a tick box that says "ticking this box agrees to all terms and conditions" (or words to that effect).

 

i have challenged their attempt at an agreement and they claim a true copy does not need to have a signature (which i know is rubbish). they also say as it's a CC account the current t's and c's will do (which i also know is rubbish)

 

MBNA have never told me that they have sold the debt, Cap Quest just tell me that they have bought it. i've told them twice that i don't acknowledge them as MBNA have never told me about the sale, but they just ignore me.

 

my questions are as follows:

 

1) can they sell the account while it is in dispute ? and if not what do i do about it ?

2) can anybody tell me what the legal position is relatign to signatures on agreements, and what i should be telling them?

3) what should my next move be ?

4) can i ignore them as MBNA are still the alledged creditor as they haven't told me about crap quest

 

all advice greatly received and appreciated !

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They are right in that the copy of the agreement doesn't need to have a signature but the original bearing your signature would have to be produced in court. MBNA doesn't do agreements and as you say they are not supposed to sell it whilst it is in dispute. Do you have it in writing that Capquest have definitely bought the debt? Did you receive a Default Notice from MBNA? If you didn't or if any DN is invalid, then Capquest are up the creek without a paddle. Selling a debt without prior issue of a DN causes rescission ie puts you back in the position you were in before the agreement was taken out. Don't do anything until you have checked all the documentation.

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if it was a tick box did you apply on line?


PGH7447

 

 

Getting There Slowly

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Advice is given freely but is in no way meant to be taken as Gospel:-)

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not sure if the account has been defaulted, but i think it has.

 

yes CrapQuest told me in their latest letter that they have bought it. but MBNA just ignore my letters.

 

so what do i do about CrapQuest ?

 

but if they are oblidged to provide me with a true copy then surely this must be signed ? otherwise what's to stop me sending anybody a copy of an agreement with their name on it with no signature ? surely under Data protection laws i am entitled to see documents they hold about me ?

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if it was a tick box did you apply on line?

 

i may have done, it was a few years ago !

 

does this make much of a difference ??

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You might want to read this about signatures:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

 

Personally, I would write to crap and tell them that the matter is in cca section 78(6) dispute with the OC and that you do not recognise their legal title or right to pursue in this matter until the dispute is resolved.

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because by applying on line and ticking the T&C's you have ineffect agreed to the agreement, without the need for a signature


PGH7447

 

 

Getting There Slowly

---------

 

Advice is given freely but is in no way meant to be taken as Gospel:-)

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because by applying on line and ticking the T&C's you have ineffect agreed to the agreement, without the need for a signature

 

sorry for being dense, but i'm not up on legal side of things, but how can they prove it was me that took the account if i haven't signed to agree to it ?

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You might want to read this about signatures:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

 

Personally, I would write to crap and tell them that the matter is in cca section 78(6) dispute with the OC and that you do not recognise their legal title or right to pursue in this matter until the dispute is resolved.

 

does that fact that i made a request under this section of the agreement hinder me asking under a different reason ?

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I am just stating that online applications are covered differently to paper ones


PGH7447

 

 

Getting There Slowly

---------

 

Advice is given freely but is in no way meant to be taken as Gospel:-)

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You are not sure if it was defaulted? Well it is in your interests to know if it was defaulted legally with a Default Notice or not because if it wasn't there is nothing for Capquest to collect - the alleged account would be rescinded at the point of sale.

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You are not sure if it was defaulted? Well it is in your interests to know if it was defaulted legally with a Default Notice or not because if it wasn't there is nothing for Capquest to collect - the alleged account would be rescinded at the point of sale.

 

 

Good point well put pinky

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How old is the alleged application? Because as far as I know, before 2006 or so they still required a signature, whether applied for online or not.

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You are not sure if it was defaulted? Well it is in your interests to know if it was defaulted legally with a Default Notice or not because if it wasn't there is nothing for Capquest to collect - the alleged account would be rescinded at the point of sale.

 

sorry for not being clear, yes it was defaulted a while back, but in those days (before i knew about CAG) i didn't know it made a difference ?

 

what i meant was i don't know if the DN was valid or not.

 

i guess what i'm asking for is what should / can i do now ?

 

 

Thanks

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How old is the alleged application? Because as far as I know, before 2006 or so they still required a signature, whether applied for online or not.

 

if my memory serves me right i think the date of the alleged application was late 2005

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How old is the alleged application? Because as far as I know, before 2006 or so they still required a signature, whether applied for online or not.

 

 

Yes, before then you applied on line, they sent you all the paperwork to fill in/sign and post back.

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Do you still have a copy of the Default Notice?

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Do you still have a copy of the Default Notice?

 

unfortunatley no ! i've moved house and not been able to find it !

 

what options do i have now ?

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unfortunatley no ! i've moved house and not been able to find it !

 

what options do i have now ?

 

 

Have they actually asked you for / 'threatened' anything or have they just said 'we have complied with your request under section 78 of the CCA?

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Have they actually asked you for / 'threatened' anything or have they just said 'we have complied with your request under section 78 of the CCA?

 

yes they are chasing me for £6k, they are claiming to have bought it (even though MBNA have never told me - and as the account is in dispute with MBNA i'm not sure they can buy it)

 

they claim they have complied with the request, but as i said ealier apart from the name and address on the agreement it could be anybodies agreement as it has nothing personal on it

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