Template to request CCA for Overdraft.

[jon888999]

Hi,

I might be being stupid here as it might already be on here,

but a friend of mine has a current account, with overdraft,

which has been in dispute due to over £2000 of charges.

 

Now to avoid the bank using the Supreme Courts ruling and start trying to collect,

we intend sending a cca request,

which we know doesn't exist,

as we've had full disclosure from a Sars request got over 5000 bits of paper! That really pleased TNT!

 

As it's an ovverdraft we know they will say a cca is required,

so is there a request that explains why it is required?

Thanks in advance.

Jon

[Seminole]

Overdrafts aren't regulated by the CCA and so a CCA request won't yield anything unfortunately.

[jon888999]

Overdrafts aren't regulated by the CCA and so a CCA request won't yield anything unfortunately.

I understand from this site that bank accounts aren't but an overdraft requires some kind of CCA. Perhaps i'm wrong i'll have look fo`r the thread I saw before>

[jon888999]

I understand from this site that bank accounts aren't but an overdraft requires some kind of CCA. Perhaps i'm wrong i'll have look fo`r the thread I saw before>

This is one of the posts i've seen. With full disclosure there is no sign of the required letter, default notice etc.

#27 (permalink) hungrybear

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Re: My First Solictor's Letter

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeftyHippo

I know if they don't produce a CCA, they cannot pursue the credit card, so a CCA request is being sent, and that will reveal the enforceability or otherwise of the credit account, but the overdraft is not covered by the CCA and could still result in legal action.

 

.

 

WooooooooooW up a bit here.

 

An overdraft is a debtor creditor agreement as defined under section 8 and 13 of the CCA and is running account credit as defined in section 10. This has high court case law - coutts vs sebastyn.

 

When they say it is not CCA, what they mean is that there is part v exemption from the CCA but,

-they still need to show the contractual arrangement set up with 30 days of the o/d

-they still need a valid default notice

-they still need a termination notice.

 

A current account is covered by the banking code (FSA) and does not offer credit facilities. An overdraft is a credit agreement and as such CCA.

 

This is my specialist area I've seen off HSBC and LTSB on this. They will try to tell you that CCA does not apply to an o/d this utter nonsense. What tehy mean is that they have the part v exemption. So a Subject Access Request requesting specifically the default and termination notices plus the letter they sent you within 30 days of setting up the o/d (which must include interest rate and conditions such a limit) will tell you if they can enforce it. But I would still start with a CCA for the o/d it is for them to prove part v exemption.

[UnmoderatetheNet]

This has been debated and concluded several times.

 

Overdrafts are backed by case law but I understand the conclusion is CCA's a not covered for OD.

 

Thank you for your letter dated the 13th ..... the contents of which have been noted.

 

Your letter states that overdrafts are not subject to the Section 77 of the Consumer Credit Act, as you will be no doubt be aware the case Coutts & Co v Sebestyen[2005] EWCA Civ 473 clearly states the opposite.

 

I require that you send me a true copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement exists then I require written confirmation of this.

 

etc etc

 

WHAT IS BADLY NEEDED IS A LETTER TO COVER THE CHANGES TO BANK CHARGES RULE.

 

DCA's are gonna have a field day. All those OD charges on hold are now suddenly gonna be hounded by pond life and this is so unfair as £35.00 bank charge is still taking the p*ss, I don't care what the court says.

[Benni Bronx]

subbing and Jon888999...I sent off long ago to LTSB for my girlfriends overdraft CCA. I will have to dig the letter out as it was a while ago but was wondering if you could help me out and guide me through this process as you seem to have had success with them in particular??? Although the debt is now with Moorcroft DCA's

[disgruntled2007]

At risk of hijacking this thread, I have a nasty letter from SCM regarding recovery of my LTSB overdraft. Any help out there?

[UnmoderatetheNet]

subbing and Jon888999...I sent off long ago to LTSB for my girlfriends overdraft CCA. I will have to dig the letter out as it was a while ago but was wondering if you could help me out and guide me through this process as you seem to have had success with them in particular??? Although the debt is now with Moorcroft DCA's

 

I don't have the answers yet.

 

Best thing to do is to post on bank charges forum and keep checking back.

 

There WILL be a letter produced and I think initially it will center around the interest on OD charges being claimed back which essentially puts the account in dispute until thhat aspect is returned.

 

I would not be too worried by the scare monkeys Moorcock and in my experience there pre-school (pre-court) division are one trick ponys with very little taste for the court although I don't know if this would change when CCA are debated by the courts.

[UnmoderatetheNet]

At risk of hijacking this thread, I have a nasty letter from SCM regarding recovery of my LTSB overdraft. Any help out there?

 

see below, there are lot of caggers as we speak working on a draft letter, sit tight.

 

£35 charge I still don't get the part where this is fair. I would accept £5 as a charge for me not able to manage my money correctly, but £35 is just blantant profit.

 

Someone will sort the banks out and it won't be the OFT or the GOVERNMENT it will be CONSUMERS cos we've had enough of this p*sstaking

[disgruntled2007]

see below, there are lot of caggers as we speak working on a draft letter, sit tight.

 

£35 charge I still don't get the part where this is fair. I would accept £5 as a charge for me not able to manage my money correctly, but £35 is just blantant profit.

 

Someone will sort the banks out and it won't be the OFT or the GOVERNMENT it will be CONSUMERS cos we've had enough of this p*sstaking

 

many thanks!

 

(there was nothing to see below though, sadly!)

[hungrybear]

At risk of hijacking this thread, I have a nasty letter from SCM regarding recovery of my LTSB overdraft. Any help out there?

define nasty?

 

 

 

 

And to answer the original question, just send the standard cca request letter and see what reply you get.. The objective is to find out what they think covers an overdraft more than anything

[disgruntled2007]

define nasty?

 

 

 

 

And to answer the original question, just send the standard cca request letter and see what reply you get.. The objective is to find out what they think covers an overdraft more than anything

 

Letter opens: "We have been instructed by LTSB who advise us that despite several reminders your account remains out of order. etc...."

 

Final para: "EREMEMBER THIS IS A FORMAL DEMAND PRIOR TO THE COMMENCEMENT OF LEGAL PROCEEEDINGS AND YOU ARE STRONGLY URGED TO MAKE IMMEDIATE PAYMENT TO AVOID THE ABOVE ACTION"

 

It's clearly a template as it begins dear sir/madam and ends "faithfully" scm solicitors. (the signature is a scrawly scm funnily enough!)

[hungrybear]

Letter opens: "We have been instructed by LTSB who advise us that despite several reminders your account remains out of order. etc...."

 

Final para: "EREMEMBER THIS IS A FORMAL DEMAND PRIOR TO THE COMMENCEMENT OF LEGAL PROCEEEDINGS AND YOU ARE STRONGLY URGED TO MAKE IMMEDIATE PAYMENT TO AVOID THE ABOVE ACTION"

 

It's clearly a template as it begins dear sir/madam and ends "faithfully" scm solicitors. (the signature is a scrawly scm funnily enough!)

 

 

Depends where you are up to on the merry-go-round. HAve they had a prove it and/or cca request? If not start there

[disgruntled2007]

Depends where you are up to on the merry-go-round. HAve they had a prove it and/or cca request? If not start there

this is the beginning of the merry-go-round! I have been in financial difficulty for sometime (haven't we all?) and went into a temporary extended OD with them. In a nutshell, the OD went back to original figure and i've been unable to maintain it within the agreed figure despite all outgoings now being cancelled. Since their letter I have received a polite template letter from LTSB adding a further 250 quid in charges..... this is now the vicious circle from which i cannot escape. (When I phoned the bank I was told (recorded) that the account is in the hands of SCM and I should wait for them to contact me in afew days.)

 

So, to get this in my head right, are you suggesting I send them a CCA letter? To what end?

[disgruntled2007]

(I am being a complete turkey and am totally unable to find a CCA request in the templates or in any threads... Help!) Found it!

 

Now just gotta work out whether it is s77 or 78 or 79. I think it's 78?

Edited December 10, 2009 by disgruntled2007
found template

[sequenci]

This has been debated and concluded several times.

 

Overdrafts are backed by case law but I understand the conclusion is CCA's a not covered for OD.

 

Thank you for your letter dated the 13th ..... the contents of which have been noted.

 

Your letter states that overdrafts are not subject to the Section 77 of the Consumer Credit Act, as you will be no doubt be aware the case Coutts & Co v Sebestyen[2005] EWCA Civ 473 clearly states the opposite.

 

I require that you send me a true copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement exists then I require written confirmation of this.

 

etc etc

 

WHAT IS BADLY NEEDED IS A LETTER TO COVER THE CHANGES TO BANK CHARGES RULE.

 

DCA's are gonna have a field day. All those OD charges on hold are now suddenly gonna be hounded by pond life and this is so unfair as £35.00 bank charge is still taking the p*ss, I don't care what the court says.

 

I was under the impression that overdrafts ARE CCA regulated but are exempt from Part V of the act (The form and content of agreements) ?

[hungrybear]

I was under the impression that overdrafts ARE CCA regulated but are exempt from Part V of the act (The form and content of agreements) ?

 

yes that is correct. Although technically they are only exempt if the bank has registered with the oft.

 

What I advise normally, esp with a dca and an od that shall we say lapsed a couple of years ago, is to send a cca initially. Their reply will give you an insight into the tack they will take. Some will say od's are not cca at all n which case you can simply ask them what laws cover them - that makes their heads spin:D. Others will state the exemption and you can then attack them on that.

 

What is often missed is that the determination does not get rid of the need for an agreement, item 2 of the determination gives the timescale under which they must send a letter detailing the apr, terms, and contractual arrangement.

 

The main thing to watch out for is the common practice 'con' of saying that current accounts are not covered by the cca - this is true because a current account under the banking code cannot offer any credit facilities, an overdraft is a separate arrangement and is section 10 running account credit.

 

(I'm sure you know this sequenci, but it's worth stating for the benefit of the OP)

[disgruntled2007]

well, CCA request drafted and ready to post this evening..... Went with s78....

[hungrybear]

DG2007, have you had a default notice?

Is this the first letter you have had from SCM? - who you should know are pet, tame and internal to the bank, ie the desk next to the one that send you the bank letters.

 

If you do send a cca - and there's no harm in it - then I would not mention coutts at all, let them educate themselves, and it would be section 78 in theory.

[disgruntled2007]

DG2007, have you had a default notice?

Is this the first letter you have had from SCM? - who you should know are pet, tame and internal to the bank, ie the desk next to the one that send you the bank letters.

 

If you do send a cca - and there's no harm in it - then I would not mention coutts at all, let them educate themselves, and it would be section 78 in theory.

 

Hi HB, thanks for your interest and assistance. No default yet, this is the first letter from SCM. (I have had past dealings with them on DPA non-compliance and my charges claim so not totally unaware of their petness and ineptitude!)

 

I haven't elaborated on the basic CCA template and have used s78 as that applies to rolling credit........ regarding Coutts, I never put food on their plate so only share my "knowledge" when necessary... Just need to refresh my memory on the reply time limits now and sit back and relax for a fortnight!

[hungrybear]

Hi HB, thanks for your interest and assistance. No default yet, this is the first letter from SCM. (I have had past dealings with them on DPA non-compliance and my charges claim so not totally unaware of their petness and ineptitude!)

 

I haven't elaborated on the basic CCA template and have used s78 as that applies to rolling credit........ regarding Coutts, I never put food on their plate so only share my "knowledge" when necessary... Just need to refresh my memory on the reply time limits now and sit back and relax for a fortnight!

 

Will be interesting to see what approach their reply takes.

 

Technically you should have got a DN prior to going to scm (sections 87/88 are not in part v)

[disgruntled2007]

Will be interesting to see what approach their reply takes.

 

Technically you should have got a DN prior to going to scm (sections 87/88 are not in part v)

 

 

Thats interesting. Should I mention the DN? Ask for it?

 

Their first letter does mention a default in passing, but not one that specifically relates to me. They simply mention that if I settle the debt within the prescribed period it will be recorded (on my credit file) but will not lead to the original default being removed.....

[hungrybear]

Thats interesting. Should I mention the DN? Ask for it?

 

Their first letter does mention a default in passing, but not one that specifically relates to me. They simply mention that if I settle the debt within the prescribed period it will be recorded (on my credit file) but will not lead to the original default being removed.....

 

 

NO NO NO

 

you want them to terminate without a DN and/or take you to court without a DN. This would constitute unlawful rescission and is the best easiest defence for an od.

 

 

the default they refer to is the cra default which is nothing to do with the actual cca default.

[disgruntled2007]

NO NO NO

 

you want them to terminate without a DN and/or take you to court without a DN. This would constitute unlawful rescission and is the best easiest defence for an od.

 

 

the default they refer to is the cra default which is nothing to do with the actual cca default.

 

gotcha! cheers! So, letter will be posted first thing..........

[Benni Bronx]

Many thanks for your reply unmoderate...I will report back later this evening on what the actual letter detailed from the original CCA request. Maybe somebody can advise me from there on what course of action to take???