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    • Sorry I'm not sure what you mean - I haven't suggested any of that - I'm just letting you know what letters come next from who. I'm aware what they're doing and that only an eventual LoC matters
    • Hi all   Firstly, thanks for all the helpful threads on here. Whilst there's a lot to read and get through, it's both helpful and reassuring to see so much great advice and support to others in similar situations.   I've received a letter and a Claim Form from Moriarty for an ADCB CC debt. I'm presently in a DMP for existing UK debts and (probably like many others) I truly don't know the best way forward, as time is clearly of the essence - but I don't feel I've 'up to speed' yet on all the other threads, advice, lingo etc. to respond accordingly.   I'm looking at drafting the PAP and getting it of tomorrow, but just want to get into the other threads to see if it's the right thing (and get more info on similar cases).   Please feel free to comment with any advice - all gratefully received of course. Thanks again for anyone that's posted in other threads and great to see so many kind and generous respondents helping others.   PS. Haven't posted/scanned details onto the thread yet as still to read up on the rules/tips, but Claim Form filed in Northampton on 20 Nov.
    • nothing you can do can product against the very rare judge lottery syndrome.
    • not sure why you added the blue line I've highlighted? that's no in the we gave you.   as for your question... PRAC's roboclaim computer knows when the account was taken out, after all it raised the claim and checked everything carefully first before issuing the request via northants bulk courts equally inept roboclaim computer... 
    • I've been researching in preparation of compiling my particularised defence/WS.    I'm none too happy that some judges still seem to be siding with DCAs and seemingly brushing aside anything that we have assumed to be "necessary" for DCAs to have a winning case.    Reading a recent "summary" from another poster (another thread with case similar to mine - very old, illegible application form, no default notice, reliance on their own software to prove it was ever sent) and the judgment made in favour of the DCA and even suggesting that there was no "agreement with the DCA, they simply owned the debt, not the agreement"  Makes me very nervous.    Especially if cases like this will be judged on "probability" - the probability that if I signed the original application form, then I must have taken out the credit card and racked up the alleged debt as shown in statements enclosed in their WS (and dated some ten years later).   Is it ok to post some "evidence" I've found from elsewhere?    This is in line with my fears that regardless of how hard one tries to rebut the "lack of evidence" produced by DCAs for chasing these very old "alleged" debts, it does appear to come down to the luck of what judge you get on the day and how much they can be swayed by the DCA solicitor.    A quick Google search produced the following - from one case - this related to a credit agreement - which resulted in someone being made bankrupt - that person appealed the bankruptcy order on the grounds of defective credit agreement and default notice and this was the appeal judge's decision:   The necessary formalities for the entry into the regulated consumer credit agreement (which related to the debt in issue) were not complied with; The default notice served in respect of that credit agreement was defective.   The First Ground The Appellant argued that she did not receive the terms and conditions when she entered into the credit agreement and, accordingly, section 61 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (“CCA”) had not been complied with and the agreement could not be enforced. The agreement had been entered in 1995 and, whilst it had provided a microfiche copy of the front page of the application, the Respondent had been unable to provide a copy of the terms.   Despite the terms not being produced, the District Judge had found that, in the circumstances, it was very likely that such terms existed and would have been provided to the Appellant when she entered into the Agreement. Mr Justice Mann held that this was a finding that the District Judge was entitled to make.   Further, Mr Justice Mann found that it was implicit from the District Judge’s findings that she considered that the terms and conditions not only existed but had been subscribed to by the Appellant’s signature and, consequently, the requirements of section 61 CCA were fulfilled. Mr Justice Mann held that this was also a justifiable finding which should not be interfered with on appeal.   The Second Ground The Appellant also argued that the default notice upon which the Respondent relied did not comply with the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notice) Regulations 1989 because it stated the full balance of the account rather than the total of the missed payments. The Respondent argued that, as a result of the missed payments, it was contractually entitled to the entire balance subject to the service of the appropriate notice, a requirement which was fulfilled by the default notice itself and, consequently, the sum required to remedy the breach was the entire amount.   Mr Justice Mann agreed with the Respondent and the District Judge, holding that: “If by the time the default notice is served circumstances have arisen which entitle the lender to recover not merely sums which might be regarded as arrears, by which I assume is meant accumulated minimum payments, but also the whole of the sum, then they are entitled to claim that sum, and the sum to require to remedy the breach for non-payment of that sum is the payment of the whole sum due. The bank is not confined, at that stage, to claiming merely the amount of arrears if it has an accrued contractual right to have the whole of the sum.”   Do judgments like these not mean that a lot of what you guys do on here (and for which I and many others are VERY grateful) somewhat redundant. What is happening to judges just accepting "well, the terms must have been there if you signed it" -    Feeling quite nervous now.
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gleamcat22

Using found Freedom Pass

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Hi,

 

I found this forum after being inspected during a bus ride earlier this morning - here are the notes I've put down to change to letter form to send to the prosecutions team at TFL.

 

Does anyone have any insight on how they think this will go, and any handy contacts for this letter, or anyone I could call? Just want to get this matter out of the way asap, and especially avoid a criminal record, as I'm very worried about having one.

 

 

- Several years ago a friend and I found an old-age Hillingdon Borough Freedom Pass. I intended to return this, and put it in my bag, but forgot to do so.

- Sorting through old bags recently (14th Nov), I pulled this card out, having forgotten it even existed. I put it in my wallet again, intending to return/destroy it, which I know should have done immediately. It could be that I swiped it on a bus that weekend to see whether it was still valid, but as this was something that would be covered by my own Annual Z1-2 travelcard, I thought nothing of it. I had no idea that it would even be in operation, due to the time that elapsed since I found it.

- The card was in my wallet for the time between 14th-29th November, and as I have been using my Barclaycard Visa Oystercard to make Christmas purchases, they have been in and out of my wallet, and in different parts of the wallet.

- On Sunday my valid oyster card happened to not be in my wallet, but was in my wife’s handbag. When the ticket inspectors came, my wife accidentally swiped my card, although she had a valid PAYG Oystercard in her bag. When I went to swipe my wallet, the card in there didn’t register – the revenue inspector asked to see the card, and on asking I realised that I had the freedom pass noted above in my wallet. Unfortunately, I became very panicked as I realised that using that for a paid journey I would be committing a serious offence by accident, and didn’t realise that between us we had two valid oyster cards, which makes this situation even more distressing.

- I am extremely sorry, the offenses I have committed have been accidental, and haven’t given me any financial benefit. I understand that this is an extremely serious offence, and I hope that the circumstances noted above will be taken into account.

 

 

This is very distressing to us, my wife and I are at the point where we are thinking jail time is a certainty, as is a criminal record - if anyone has any insights and experience they could use to shed light on this, we'd be very grateful.

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I doubt you would be sent to jail for it.

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do some reading in this forum.

sadly this will be classed as fraud.

 

you have had ample time to get rid off it & pers i dont believe your story but thats no matter, they will not take that into account anyhow.

 

write to them, as other threads suggest pleading guily and wanting to sort the matter without going to court,

you should be ok.

 

dx


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I am planning to plead guilty with mitigating circumstances. Sadly, as stupid as this story sounds, it is true. The only real mistake that was made is that the PAYG Oystercard hadn't been topped up. If I had even remembered the stupid thing was in my wallet, I would of just told the inspector I didn't have any credit. I would much rather have had that fine instead of being in all of this trouble for nothing.

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ok fair enough

you should be ok going by other threads

 

dx


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Lets hope that the freedom pass wasnt obtained through robbery/burglary as you could become the prime suspect or be charged with hangling stolen goods.

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Hadn't thought of that - hopefully plenty of people will vouch for my character and whereabouts, as I've had that pass for a long, long time without even realising I still had it.

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Trying to get through to the prosecutions team, but not having a whole lot of luck - does anyone have the number for the bus prosecutions team?

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I doubt you would be sent to jail for it.
I would like to know the outcome of this problem as I've been told in the past that using someone else's freedom pass is classed as 'benefit cheating' and does cover a massive fine or jail time.

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On buses I believe its classed as fraud.


All I ask is to be treated fairly and lawfully.

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I would like to know the outcome of this problem as I've been told in the past that using someone else's freedom pass is classed as 'benefit cheating' and does cover a massive fine or jail time.

In these circumstances it would probably be classed as fraud, although I can see why some Magistrates may class it diferently. Bearing in mind if you go to Court for somthing like this, it's almost always a Train Company or TFL or something, and they would more than likely prosecute using the Regulations of Railways Act, or railway Byelaws, and benefit offences wouldn't come in to the question, as that's not why they were taken to court.

 

If however the Police were to prosecute for such an offence (unlikely, but it does happen on occassion!), I guess it could be different, as they're not prosecuting in order to get compensation of travel costs etc, namely BTP, as local forces probably wouldn't know how to report for such an offence.

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