o2 wont send copy of contract

[Its WAR]

O2 have cancelled my sons internet contract but charged an early cancellation fee. (my son moved to Oz 6 months before the 18 month term ). They refuse to send a copy of the contract so I cant examine it to check the details. They say they are not governed by the consumer credit act, so dont have to send one.

 

They say that they will continue to record late payments to my sons credit file.

 

What can I do for him?

[Mattyg2004]

I have been told by a dealer recently that its them (the dealer) who keeps the contract.

 

But they only have to keep it for 6 months.

 

So i would be telling O2 that the contract was for 12 months and their to prove otherwise.

[locutus]

They are correct, phone service is not credit and is not governed by the consumer credit act. Is your son living in Oz permanently?

[buzby]

Further, an Internet Contract is just that - virtual. Hel'll be bound by the current terms and conditions of service, which can be viewed on the O2's website. However, as you'll probably be aware, he's agreed to 18 months, and that the minimum he has to pay - so to resolve the issue he (or you) must arrange to have the account restored to good order. If it isn;t all late payments and possibly a default will be registered against him, and this will sit on his file for six yers - possibly storing up a financial storm when he needs to make use of financial services.

[Its WAR]

I have just checked my sons credit file and he has had a default registered for £136.00. My son is still travelling around Oz and will be back in the Spring.

 

The amount oweing was the balance of the home broadband contract price £136.00. There has never been a default notice issued, just correspondence over the past 9 months, which I have been dealing with in my sons absence. I still dispute the account as I have no way of checking the terms or duration of the contract.

 

It seems unfair that a disputed account should be defaulted, particularly as o2 knew my son was unable to deal with the dispute.

 

Also, it seems that Wescot are involved. I have written to them requesting a copy copntract, deed of assignment, statement of account and default notices. Nothing will come of it. Even o2 refused to send any of these.

 

Thanks Buzby, you are right. My son will hate a default notice on his otherwise perfect credit file.

 

Its easy enough to pay off, so whats my next move to clean up the credit file?

 

Unfortunately, I also have o2 braoadband at home and at work. I will certainly not be renewing these.

[locutus]

Firstly, let me say it's not just o2 that do this. Most internet contracts are minimum 18 months, cancel early and they'll charge for the whole contract and log the account activity on your credit file. Plusnet are the only ones I can think of that do a 1 month rolling contract with £30 set up fee.

 

Did your son dispute owing this amount when he moved to Oz?

 

I think your best bet is getting a "Gesture of goodwill" for them to remove the default if you pay up, so write stating why it's unfair, IE they didn't bill him before he moved and it's hard for him to sort the problems out from Oz, or he disputed owing this as he thought the contract was 12 months.

[buzby]

I have just checked my sons credit file and he has had a default registered for £136.00. My son is still travelling around Oz and will be back in the Spring.

 

I'm afraid your terminology is leading to incorrect assumptions with regard to what has happened. There has been no default 'registered'. A credit reference agency has noted on its files that a data subject has failed to keep to the terms of the contract (legally binding) they had taken out. That same person gave permission for their financial dealings to be disclosed to the CRA. There is no civil crime or court action, don't fall into the trap of giving a CRA the impression you believe what it says has any standing amongst anyone that isn't' a client of theirs.

 

This is not a Consumer Finanace issue, so there is no requirement to issue a 'Default Notice'. What they are saying is his account is IN default to the agreed terms. This follows when payments are not made in time, and are automatically applied after a set number of days with no credit to clear the overdue balance. Only by resolving the issue by getting them to realise their mistake (if one had been made) or negotiating the problem to their satisfaction would have resolved the issue.

 

The fact your son is abroad, and you don't have the facts to assist him is not a realistic defence. If we could all say to our creditors - sorry we cannot deal with this now, but will get back to you once it is convenient is taking things to extremes, and I don't know any creditor who would be satisfied with this.

 

Next, Wescott act as O2's debt collector. They require none of the things you asked them for - they do not need any assignation or contract proof. All these items refer to a CCA agreement, and as this is a service contract, you are asking for the wrong things. I agree they should respond saying that they don't have to, but with many taking this tack to get out of legitimately paying monies owed, it is invariably seen as a half-cocked stalling tactic. Additionally, as you are not the account holder/debtor, there is no requirement to deal with you UNLESS your son had given them written permission for you to act on his behalf.

 

With the best will in the world, I cannot see how you can resolve this issue for him - the default will disappear in 6 years, whether he pays it off or not. Even if paid, it remains a factor in the handling of the account and as such, will stay there with an 'owed' or 'settled' flag.

[Its WAR]

Ouch ! So Locutus has the best plan then. I had no idea that a service contract was any different to a credit agreement, in expecting to see a copy of the contract. Had they dealt with that question last spring, the matter could have been taken care of.

 

So, I guess settling asap wont look as bad as leaving an unpaid debt. Should I write to Wescot or o2?

[locutus]

o2... deal with the Organ grinder, not the threat monkey®

[buzby]

o2... deal with the Organ grinder, not the threat monkey®

 

Beat me to it!

 

DO emphasise you are looking after your sons interests whilst he's abroad and would appreviate some slack... it might just do the trick!

[247orbital]

My advice is to wait, let the debt go to a DCA then SAR O2. I think you'll find it will show account closed with a balance of zero. Once you have this in writing scan it and post to the CRA which will then remove the default. O2 will only release this information with a SAR.

[fredbassett]

247orbital - the debt already is with a debt collection agency - its with Westcot. the account wont show as zero unless the debt has been paid. Also the credit reference agencies cannot remove a default unless they are instructed to do so by o2. the advise you have given will only make the situation worse.

[buzby]

Concur with what FredB says, however the DCA canot alter your creidt file - ever.

 

Only O2 (who placed the default) have the ability to remove it, OR the CRA, who have the ability to amend/remove any entry. either on instruction from the ICO, or if the network does not confirm an entry is valid on a consumer complaint..

[vjohn82]

Just dropping by this thread as I noticed it when searching for your thread on the CCA issue...

 

I have attached a document from the ICO which I have used to good effect regarding defaults. Read it properly and see if any of the guidance applies to you.

 

If it does you have reasonable grounds to either have the default removed from the record, if it is in contravention of the ICO guidance, or marked as "settled".

 

Let me know if you spot anything in the guidance which is useful and I can help you draft a letter.

ICO - Filing defaults with CRAs.pdf

[247orbital]

Sorry to say Buzby and Fred Bassett I have already had a default removed from my credit file by using a SAR to O2. I was originaly infomed by a rather stroppy O2 manager that my account balance was zero and the account closed. I asked for this information in writing but he refused to send it hence the SAR request. This information was then sent to me from O2 I then forward it to the CRA who I assume contacted O2 and the information was removed. I now check my credit file monthly and if it appears again I will take them to court and claim compensation.

[Its WAR]

Thanks VJ. I guess the Unresolved Disputes Section 43-44 might get close. It does seem unfair that whilst my son is on Walkabout in Oz and I have been trying to deal with his affairs without being able to contact him regularly, that o2 would still default on such an insignificant amount. We have 3 o2 broadband accounts, 2 of which are clearly 12 month contracts, and o2 wont produce the contract that my son has, yet they claim it to be 18 months. We are only arguing on 6 months payments plus a cancelation fee.

 

I have offered to pay the whole amount off for him. I have also offered to pay my 2 o2 broadband accounts 12 months in advance for the next year (normally £22 a month). My accounts are on 12 month contracts which have now run their term and are now rolling 1 month contracts. I have therefore suggested I pay them something around £600 (to clear the debt in full plus my 2 accounts for a year in advance) . All they have to do is remove the default. If they dont I will cancel my o2 contracts immediatly.

 

We will see if that produces a response in todays market, will they refuse the money? And remember, its a really good deal for them to accept, compared to losing my custom for this year and forever etc. Just think how much they will lose if I would otherwise stay loyal for 10 years. Its over £5000.

 

Recession is self inflicted. Should be o2's slogan.

Edited January 10, 2010 by Its WAR

[buzby]

Sorry to say Buzby and Fred Bassett I have already had a default removed from my credit file by using a SAR to O2. I was originaly infomed by a rather stroppy O2 manager that my account balance was zero and the account closed. I asked for this information in writing but he refused to send it hence the SAR request. This information was then sent to me from O2 I then forward it to the CRA who I assume contacted O2 and the information was removed. I now check my credit file monthly and if it appears again I will take them to court and claim compensation.

 

Why be sorry? I'm glad you got a default removed, but you've not explained the reasns why.If the data they held was incorrect, then it has to go, no question. If it IS correct, and they can stand to defend it, the default stays, because it refers to the historical status f your account, NOT what is currently owing. (This is why do many people are annoyed when making a massive payment to clear the debt, fins the default is there for al to see, the only thing changing is from 'owed' to 'settled/satisfied'/

 

As for ;taking them to court' - fine words, but unfortunately, you gave them permission to do so, and if the date of the default predates the cancellation of your contract, there sin;t a thing you can do about it. Also, you cannot claim compensation unless you can prove loss.

[vjohn82]

I would say it is a reasonable offer. You have to make it clear to them though that any settlement includes the removal of adverse credit information ;-)

[247orbital]

The default was removed as O2 had my account details as closed with a Zero balance. Hower a false debt was passed on to the DCA of £60 for an alledged debt which was then increased by them to £90. Which is unlawfull.

 

You can however claim for damaging your credit file (£1000 is the norm per incorrect entry)

You can also ask as a gestrue of goodwill that the default be removed from your credit file in receipt of payment.

[buzby]

From what you describe, in these circumstances, O2 would have had no option but to remove, especially if your account had been closed. You don't make it clear whether the additional amount was added by the DCA or O2 in error, the latter is allowed if corrected, the former is not allowed, full stop (as you never gave the DCA the authority to modify your credit file).

 

As to your lat paragraph - sorry, this is nonsese. There is no 'norm' payment for an incorrect entry. there is a FINE (by the ICO) if they do not comply to remove an erroneous entry, which is not the same thing.

 

You can always ask for a default to be removed in consideration of full payment, but there is no compulsion for them to do so.

[247orbital]

Wrong again Buzby the compensation of damage to your credit file which is found to be incorrect is £1000.

 

Do you work for a telecoms provider or something? Your comments are always negative and seem to lean heavily to the telecoms companies.

[buzby]

Wrong? Again?

 

Your inexperience is showing.

 

My comments are based on actuality, not fluffy 'wouldn't it be great if....'. Life is hard, and if you do not look out for yourself, you'll be stuffed. Believing that you can 'earn' £1000 per incorrect entry in a CRA's filing sysytem is just too laughable for words.

 

You state this in terms that would lead anyone to believe you can just list the errors, sned a bill and await the payment. Do you work for Consumer Direct or Trading Standards, or did they tell you this? If not, a referral with some measaure of authority (not a blog) to where you can substantiate this nonsense would be appreciated.

 

As for working for a telecomms provider, funnily enough, it is only those who disagree with my views trot out this boring suggestion. The answwer is, no I have never worked for any network or service provider but am an extremely experienced telecommunications consumer.

[247orbital]

Its nothing to do with "earning" anything, nor am so naive to expect the DCA's/CRA's to just pay out. It would of course require court action which normaly ends with the DCA/CRA on the day of the court case settling before you enter the court. This is often the last option as DCA/CRA's often refuse to even accept court judgements (theres a recent case on the forums) when debts are proved to be incorrect etc and incorrect data is recorded. There are plenty of cases if you read through the forums and case studies.

[buzby]

With qualification, I accept what you say, but there remains the big 'IF'. The amount you state is a maximum penalty, only someone misguided would assume at the outset you would get anything like that, not forgetting; (a) You have you raise the action yourself, and this will NOT be a small claim/moneyclaim action, as the pursuer cannot arbitrarily decide on the amount and then attempt to pursue it. (b) Incompetence IS allowed. If an error is shown to have been placed on a file, they are allowed to amend/correct (under the DPA provisions), if they refuse to do so having been previously advised of the error, THEN and only then do you have recourse to the option of damages. This will be at the discretion of the court, and in any case will require the injured party to provide evidence of loss. © You can complain to the ICO (for free) who will pursue the Data Controller and also prosecute (at their expense) if the offending data is not corrected or removed. The onus remains on the data subject to prove a loss, not get an automatic payment of £1000 for an incorrect entry as your posting would lead CAGgers to believe. Finally, © If the CRA provides proof that your complaint is withour merit, in addition to the cost of raising the acton, you'll become liable for their costs (capped) at around £100.

 

I have only had two instances of incorrect entries, the first being fixed by the firm that placed the erroneous marker. In the second, the firm had wither gone out of business but did not reply to my enquiries. A complaint to the CRA resulted in THEM removing it after they could not raise a response from the firm within 21 days they allowed.

 

In neither case did these false entries result in my being finacially better off as you appeared to sugges. Perhaps they worked against me at some point but since I could not prove this or a financial loss, litigation would have been a pointless exercise.

 

There is no scale of costs for CRAs holding and disseminating incorrect personal data, only if they refuse to correct or amend.

[Its WAR]

So, I made the offer to pay the £136 cancellation fee for the old account. Plus 2 years in advance @ £22 month for my existing 2 o2 accounts. They would remove the default and I would not cancel the 2 current contracts.

 

After a week, I sent a chase up letter, but actually included the cheque (nearly £700) and repeated my request to pay my 2 contracts plus the arrears and they would remove the default. If they refused, I would cancel the contracts and they would have to return my cheque.

 

Next day, I get a reply to my first letter. They accept my cancellation of my two contracts as they cannot remove the default.

 

I guess they will also reply to my second letter by returning the cheque, or cashing it, take the arrears and refund the adavnce payments.

 

I dont get it. Surely the money would have made them come to a different conclusion.

 

All along, I have told them my son was away and couldnt deal with this. They refused to confirm the contract details. Had they done so, I would have paid up for him. It is starnge they say his account was 18 months when ours are only 12.

 

Anyway, in a week or so, we will have a firm answer if they send the cheque back. So, the fight will be to get the default removed on the basis that they should have resolved the dispute.

 

I cant be sure that I have seen a proper default notice. Maybe they have tripped up here. But I do need to get this default removed. When my son returns in two months, he will be looking for finance for a house, so its a huge punishment for such a small amount, under the circumstances.