Natwest Loan and CCA

[Dot1]

Hi all?

 

I am still new to the forum and need help. I have quite a few debt problems but I will start with NATWEST LOAN.

Can any one help? I took a loan with Natwest some years back but because I ran into some financial difficulties, I could not keep up with repayment. This resulted into Natwest closing my current account but from what I know now, the loan account is still open. About a moth ago I received the loan statement but with a very huge amount outstanding. According to the "statement", the amount of credit available under the agreement was 16,100, outstanding amount now is 36,112, date of First Movement was 29.09.05. Duration or terms of the loan 120 months.

As I am facing a lot of problems with debts from banks, credit cards companies and DCA, On receiving this, I decided to respond by requesting for CCA however, I decided not to sign the letter. My letter went out on 19.11.09 and I received a reply dated 22.11.9 today content as below:

 

"We return your letter attached, which we are unable to action at present.

Unfortunately we do not hold your signature on record, please take your passport or driving license into a Natwest Branch for them to forward to us at Credit Management Services.

Thank you for your assistance in this matter.

We look forward to hearing from you."

Yours sincerely, (pp) Recovery Manager.

 

The original of my letter was sent back together with the postal order.

 

Can any one please advice??? I am not sure about sending my signature. Will this matter.

Thanks for your help.

DOT1

Edited November 28, 2009 by Dot1

[maroondevo52]

Hello and Welcome, Dot1.

 

I'll move this thread to the appropriate Forum.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[Dot1]

Thanks Scott.

 

Dot1

[Delta-Charlie-76]

Don't send them a thing, they're not entitled to it, only the court can order this not some low-life DCA.

 

Your CCA request has your name & address on it, thats enough, they've been corresponding with you at your address. Also whatever you do don't phone them, they will lie to you & try to bully you into paying, if they phone refuse to go through security and insist 'everything in writing' and put the phone down.

 

Someone with more experience will be along later to offer more advise. Hope this helps.

[Dot1]

Thanks a lot Delta-Charlie-76

[Delta-Charlie-76]

You're welcome. Don't ever be intimidated by these organisations, they threaten alsorts, a year ago I was terrified...now I just laugh at them. If you click on DCA in blue with what looks like a link next to it on the left this will take you through to the Debt Collection Library then look up letter 19 Debt Letter - When a company refuse CCA due to no signature.

 

*****************************************************

Dear Sirs

 

RE: Account NO: XXXXX

 

Thank you for your letter dated xx/xx2009 in which you say that you will not comply with my request dated xxx under Section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 unless I provide you with a signature.

 

There is no requirement within the act that requires a s.78(1) request to be accompanied by a signature.

 

Further, I note that you have sent statements and correspondence containing sensitive private information to me at same address as that detailed in my s.78(1) request. If you are concerned that you are corresponding with the correct person I wonder why you have not verified the information before.

 

As you are aware, disclosing data without adequate checks of identity is contary to 7th principle of data protection, listed in schedule 1 of the Data Protection Act 1998. The time to confirm my identity was before you sent your first threat letter.

 

My request for a true copy of my credit agreement under section 78(1) was made on xxxx and the 12 working days for your compliance expire on xxxx. I note that there is no provision that removes the requirements of the act to provide this information on time, even if you are unsure of my indentity.

 

Please now comply with your legal obligation without further delay.

 

 

PRINT NAME DO NOT SIGN

 

********************************************************

 

Send this recorded delivery.

 

Their 12+2 working days runout I estimate around the 8th or 9th of December, I'm sure someone will correct me if thats wrong.

[Dot1]

You're welcome. Don't ever be intimidated by these organisations, they threaten alsorts, a year ago I was terrified...now I just laugh at them. If you click on DCA in blue with what looks like a link next to it on the left this will take you through to the Debt Collection Library then look up letter 19 Debt Letter - When a company refuse CCA due to no signature.

 

*****************************************************

Dear Sirs

 

RE: Account NO: XXXXX

 

Thank you for your letter dated xx/xx2009 in which you say that you will not comply with my request dated xxx under Section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 unless I provide you with a signature.

 

There is no requirement within the act that requires a s.78(1) request to be accompanied by a signature.

 

Further, I note that you have sent statements and correspondence containing sensitive private information to me at same address as that detailed in my s.78(1) request. If you are concerned that you are corresponding with the correct person I wonder why you have not verified the information before.

 

As you are aware, disclosing data without adequate checks of identity is contary to 7th principle of data protection, listed in schedule 1 of the Data Protection Act 1998. The time to confirm my identity was before you sent your first threat letter.

 

My request for a true copy of my credit agreement under section 78(1) was made on xxxx and the 12 working days for your compliance expire on xxxx. I note that there is no provision that removes the requirements of the act to provide this information on time, even if you are unsure of my indentity.

 

Please now comply with your legal obligation without further delay.

 

 

PRINT NAME DO NOT SIGN

 

********************************************************

 

Send this recorded delivery.

 

Their 12+2 working days runout I estimate around the 8th or 9th of December, I'm sure someone will correct me if thats wrong.

 

Thanks once again Delta, I will do that 1st thing Monday .

By the way Delta - Charlie -76, does the supreme court ruling affect the CREDIT CLAIM as well or can one still make a claim?

Edited November 28, 2009 by Dot1

[Dot1]

Hi All,

 

Does anyone know if the Supreme Court Ruling has affected the Credit card

Claims. Where does it leave one? Can we continue with the process or is it on hold too?

 

Thanks for any advice.

[maroondevo52]

Hi,

 

No, the court case had nothing to do with Credit Cards.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[Dot1]

Hi,

 

No, the court case had nothing to do with Credit Cards.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

 

Thanks Scott. That is very helpful. I will progress my claims and keep you guys posted.

[Delta-Charlie-76]

Any updates?

[Dot1]

Any updates?

 

Hi Delta,

 

Nothing new yet. They have gone quiet. I am still waiting to hear from them regarding my "Account in Dispute" letter. Will update you guys as soon as there is one.

Thanks for Checking.

[Dot1]

Hi Everyone,

 

There has not been much to update as all I have tried so far has been fruitless. Natwest refused to provide me with a copy of the agreement because I did not provide a signature.

Apart from that, my other debts of which 3 had default judgement entered against me. I have applied for the judgement to be set aside and the hearing is next month. 5 debts have been purchased and owned by DCA.One has a charge order attached to my property and the other two have Interim Charging Order. I learnt about CAG late after these judgments were made already and I did not get the chance to ask for a copy of CCA before that.Now I have requested Cabot repeatedly for a copy of CCA but in one of their letters they said since there is a judgement in place, the matter is now subject to the judgement but not Consumer act. In another letter they said they will have to get it from the original creditor. I know they are just buying time until the hearing.

Could someone please advice if CCA can be requested after judgement.

Can a dispute letter help at this stage especially when there is judgement already?

If the CCA is received , can it still help in any way.

If it is unenforceable can I appeal against the previous judgement?

Must the creditor still provide it within 12 days? What next if they fail to provide it within the time.[/i]

Any suggestion/idea is very much appreciated.

 

Thanks for your help.

[Dot1]

Anybody out there listening?? Help please.

[Dot1]

Hullo everyone,

As I stated in my previous post, I have got quite a few debts and before I knew CAG, some of them had secured judgement already.They are now heading for charging order.This one in particular has an interim order and the final hearing is listed for next week. I have made request twice for CCA, their 1st response was that the matter is now subject to Judgement then when I sent another letter, below is what their response was.Before that I had requested CCA from the original Creditor but to date they have not responded.I am sorry that it is rather long, unfortunately I can not access scanner now.

 

"We note that you requested a copy of CCA and statement of Account under section 77 & 78 of CCA74. You also requested for a Dead of Assignment which purports to be under S77 &S78 CCA74.

 

You State that “Creditors” are not entitled to enforce a Credit Agreement if they are in default of a request.

 

We wish to point out that your interpretation of the law is inaccurate.

 

The Claimant in not bound to provide you with copy of the DEED of Assignment under Section 77 or 78 CCA74 or at all. The Claimant is not willing to provide you with a copy of the Deed of Assignment as it is a commercially sensitive document and the disclosure of it is disproportionate and unnecessary to the proceedings. You have been given Notice of Assignment as required by Section 136 of the Law of property Act 1925, but there is no requirement to provide a copy of the Deed. On that basis, your request is refused.

 

The claimant is not a Creditor for the purpose of the CCA74. The CCA74 states that the Creditor is “the person providing credit under a consumer credit agreement or the person to whom his rights and duties under the agreement have passed by assignment or operation of law, and in relation to a prospective consumer credit agreement, includes the prospective creditor” The Claimant in this case is the assignee of the Credit contractual benefits of the Credit Agreement. The contractual liabilities and the burdens of the Credit Agreement have not been assigned. The Claimant submits that it is the Assignee of the contractual benefit of the agreement that existed between the Assignor and the Defendant. The Claimant’s position is that as a matter of contractual law, an assignment transfers the right or benefits but does not relieve the assignor of duties to liabilities to the other contracting party on entitle that party to enforce such duties or burden of liabilities against the assignee of the debt. In the House of Lords case of Linden Gardens Trust Limited –v- Lenesta Sludge Disposal Limited (1994) 1 AC 85, Lord Browne-Wilkinson stated that “It is trite law that it is, in any event, impossible to assign “the contract” as a whole , i.e. including both burden and benefit. The burden of a contract can never be assigned without the consent of the other party to the contract….”

Therefore, it is submitted that the Claimant is an assignee and has not been assigned the burden or liability of Credit Agreement. Therefore, the Claimant in not bound by Section 77 or 78 CCA74 request.

 

Notwithstanding the Claimant’s position as an assignee of benefits of the Agreement, the Claimant is willing to provide a copy of Credit Agreement when a copy is provided by the Assignor. The Assignor has not date provided the Claimant with a copy of the Credit Agreement as they retain copies of such documents.

We enclose herewith a copy of Cabot Statement of Account which complies with Section 77 &78 CCA74.

 

On the basis of our position as Assignee, we enclose herewith your Postal Order. As we are not bound by requests, we cannot accept a payment on that basis."

Could someone please help me as I am not sure of what to do apart from just giving up.

Anybody familiar with this??

 

Many Thanks

Edited March 11, 2010 by Dot1

[Delta-Charlie-76]

Sounds like the usual long winded guff you'd expect from Cabot, as for not being bound by requests...well....no CCA = No payment, simple.

 

If Cabot are chasing you they should have a copy of your CCA or failing that they should then send your request onto the Original Creditor. I would now make a formal complaint to the OFT via Consumer Direct.

 

If Cabot send you more letters demanding money put it on here so we can take a look at and advise you accordingly, get copies of all your correspondence between you & Cabot & vis versa & keep them safe.

 

Please down let these cretins get you down, stay strong.

[Dot1]

Thanks a lot Delta-Chalie-76 for your quick response, advise and encouragement. I will keep you guys posted as and when there is one. In the meantime, I will make the complain to the OFT.

Just one more question, since they have a hearing listed on Monday for the Final Charging Order, do you think I can defend myself along the line of none compliance in an attempt to prevent them getting the Final Order?

I wrote to them in the past requesting that we agree on some TOKEN Payment arrangement but they refused and replied that they want to secure the debt by way of Charging Order first. Therefore, I think that is what they want most. They might not now contact me as the hearing is next MONDAY (15.03.09).

[Delta-Charlie-76]

I'm not an expert with court proceedings, so I couldn't comment on that, I'm sure tjhat an expert will be able to advise you on that one.

 

So that you get the answers you're looking for, the court hearings is this for the Cabot case or something else?

[Delta-Charlie-76]

Sorry I seem to have Cabot on the brain at the moment...my mistake, I have just read through this thread again, you mention about other debts that have been through the courts or are in the process of, if its for a different problem other than this debt on this thread about the NatWest loan you would need to start different threads for each debt so that the questions you ask don't get missed and that you get the correct advice for each. I hope this is making sense, having a stinker of a cold & sore eyes doesn't help!!

[Dot1]

Yes Delta, It is for Cabot. It is true I need to sort them out under different threads as at the moment it is confusing. But as for the Monday hearing, it is for Cabot regarding Final Charging Order.

With the Cold, if pos. then try and have some good rest and take a lot of fluid. Lemon and Honey might also help.

.

Edited March 10, 2010 by Dot1

[Delta-Charlie-76]

Lol....I don't know what is wrong with my eyes apart from them being sore & streaming & the fact that I had two calls off of Cabot today myself plus one of their delightful letters. Like I said earlier don't let these a***holes beat you. In my experience of them they do send out rather long winded letters in many cases mis quoting the law etc, their letters I've had thus far are fit for one of two purposes a: In the toilet or b: Petie & Twizzles litter trays.