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    • Hi all   Firstly, thanks for all the helpful threads on here. Whilst there's a lot to read and get through, it's both helpful and reassuring to see so much great advice and support to others in similar situations.   I've received a letter and a Claim Form from Moriarty for an ADCB CC debt. I'm presently in a DMP for existing UK debts and (probably like many others) I truly don't know the best way forward, as time is clearly of the essence - but I don't feel I've 'up to speed' yet on all the other threads, advice, lingo etc. to respond accordingly.   I'm looking at drafting the PAP and getting it of tomorrow, but just want to get into the other threads to see if it's the right thing (and get more info on similar cases).   Please feel free to comment with any advice - all gratefully received of course. Thanks again for anyone that's posted in other threads and great to see so many kind and generous respondents helping others.   PS. Haven't posted/scanned details onto the thread yet as still to read up on the rules/tips, but Claim Form filed in Northampton on 20 Nov.
    • nothing you can do can product against the very rare judge lottery syndrome.
    • not sure why you added the blue line I've highlighted? that's no in the we gave you.   as for your question... PRAC's roboclaim computer knows when the account was taken out, after all it raised the claim and checked everything carefully first before issuing the request via northants bulk courts equally inept roboclaim computer... 
    • I've been researching in preparation of compiling my particularised defence/WS.    I'm none too happy that some judges still seem to be siding with DCAs and seemingly brushing aside anything that we have assumed to be "necessary" for DCAs to have a winning case.    Reading a recent "summary" from another poster (another thread with case similar to mine - very old, illegible application form, no default notice, reliance on their own software to prove it was ever sent) and the judgment made in favour of the DCA and even suggesting that there was no "agreement with the DCA, they simply owned the debt, not the agreement"  Makes me very nervous.    Especially if cases like this will be judged on "probability" - the probability that if I signed the original application form, then I must have taken out the credit card and racked up the alleged debt as shown in statements enclosed in their WS (and dated some ten years later).   Is it ok to post some "evidence" I've found from elsewhere?    This is in line with my fears that regardless of how hard one tries to rebut the "lack of evidence" produced by DCAs for chasing these very old "alleged" debts, it does appear to come down to the luck of what judge you get on the day and how much they can be swayed by the DCA solicitor.    A quick Google search produced the following - from one case - this related to a credit agreement - which resulted in someone being made bankrupt - that person appealed the bankruptcy order on the grounds of defective credit agreement and default notice and this was the appeal judge's decision:   The necessary formalities for the entry into the regulated consumer credit agreement (which related to the debt in issue) were not complied with; The default notice served in respect of that credit agreement was defective.   The First Ground The Appellant argued that she did not receive the terms and conditions when she entered into the credit agreement and, accordingly, section 61 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (“CCA”) had not been complied with and the agreement could not be enforced. The agreement had been entered in 1995 and, whilst it had provided a microfiche copy of the front page of the application, the Respondent had been unable to provide a copy of the terms.   Despite the terms not being produced, the District Judge had found that, in the circumstances, it was very likely that such terms existed and would have been provided to the Appellant when she entered into the Agreement. Mr Justice Mann held that this was a finding that the District Judge was entitled to make.   Further, Mr Justice Mann found that it was implicit from the District Judge’s findings that she considered that the terms and conditions not only existed but had been subscribed to by the Appellant’s signature and, consequently, the requirements of section 61 CCA were fulfilled. Mr Justice Mann held that this was also a justifiable finding which should not be interfered with on appeal.   The Second Ground The Appellant also argued that the default notice upon which the Respondent relied did not comply with the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notice) Regulations 1989 because it stated the full balance of the account rather than the total of the missed payments. The Respondent argued that, as a result of the missed payments, it was contractually entitled to the entire balance subject to the service of the appropriate notice, a requirement which was fulfilled by the default notice itself and, consequently, the sum required to remedy the breach was the entire amount.   Mr Justice Mann agreed with the Respondent and the District Judge, holding that: “If by the time the default notice is served circumstances have arisen which entitle the lender to recover not merely sums which might be regarded as arrears, by which I assume is meant accumulated minimum payments, but also the whole of the sum, then they are entitled to claim that sum, and the sum to require to remedy the breach for non-payment of that sum is the payment of the whole sum due. The bank is not confined, at that stage, to claiming merely the amount of arrears if it has an accrued contractual right to have the whole of the sum.”   Do judgments like these not mean that a lot of what you guys do on here (and for which I and many others are VERY grateful) somewhat redundant. What is happening to judges just accepting "well, the terms must have been there if you signed it" -    Feeling quite nervous now.
    • we know it wasn't done to avoid enforcement we understand completely. but that doesn't take from away the fact that it happened   you can't appeal the pcn's on the basis that 'it was not his vehicle to levy upon'. the law clearly states otherwise.          
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intree

Dn Abbey National

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I have received a default notice dated 20 November 2009, giving me 14 days from the date above to repay arrears or further action to be taken, it was received today which is the 27 November 2009, so will now wait for termination and detail their recission of contract.

 

I beleive this is the procedure, please correct me if I am wrong.

 

Thanks

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It's defective, they haven't allowed for postal service. Also they haven't stipulated a remedy date.

so will now wait for termination and detail their recission of contract.
yes.;)

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thanks cerberusalert - Advice taken:D

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Oh perfect intree. Please update when you get the next letter and have told them.

 

BTW - you do know to 'keep thas gob shut' until they terminate dont you.

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Thank you hungrybear, of course I will not say a word, until they terminate:D

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please can I have some advice, today I received a letter to confirm that I have not stuck to the agreement and that I owe the full amount, together with a FSA Notice, and a further letter indicating that they will now register the defaults - but no termination letter - so can they reissue a DN and should I stop paying them and just consider the account terminated?

 

Thanks

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I am in the same boat and a couple of days ago received termination notice. The default notice was also defective for same reason as yours. In my case though I had not paid for months after they refused token payment as enough and kept getting nasty so I stopped paying. It took a while after the dn for the termination notice to come but it did about a month later. Now complaining to fos that whilst ongoing complaint with them that it was terminated also.

 

Hopefully in both out cases they will have shot themselves in the foot. Why they dont deal with us more fairly is what I cant get, they would at least receive what we could afford.

 

Good luck.

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Thanks loopinlouie, I had done everything I could to make arrangements and they just ignored my attempts and told me that they would not accept token payments, so I stopped paying them 1 month ago and will not do so again.

 

Its a help to see that we are both in the same boat as may be many others, so please keep me informed I will do the same too.

 

Hoping they terminate me very soon:rolleyes:

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Oh perfect intree. Please update when you get the next letter and have told them.

 

BTW - you do know to 'keep thas gob shut' until they terminate dont you.

 

thas is past tense

 

thee is the correct word sithee

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I am in the same boat and a couple of days ago received termination notice. The default notice was also defective for same reason as yours. In my case though I had not paid for months after they refused token payment as enough and kept getting nasty so I stopped paying. It took a while after the dn for the termination notice to come but it did about a month later. Now complaining to fos that whilst ongoing complaint with them that it was terminated also.

 

Hopefully in both out cases they will have shot themselves in the foot. Why they dont deal with us more fairly is what I cant get, they would at least receive what we could afford.

 

Good luck.

 

have you written and accepted their unlawful rescission?

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thas is past tense

 

thee is the correct word sithee

 

It was in quotes because it was colloquial northern speak!:p and anyway with an apostrophe (tha's) it would be present possessive, assuming of course that it was ever a real word!

 

And as dicky says loop you must now accept their unlawful rescission.

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diddydicky. I havnt written anything, didnt know I should.

 

I did ring them to ask why terminated when I had already told them the default notice was not correct, I know but I had made complaint about manner treat and sold loan from start. Any how they told me dn was automated and out of their control.

 

Waited to hear reply regarding complaint reg with fos and termination notice appeared. Told they plan to sell the account.

 

Should I do anymore. I can show a court I told them they were acting unfairly and they still terminated.

 

I do think the abbey are stinkers in their complaints dept, they apparantly filed my complaint from fos away, without giving me chance to reply. Told dealt with.

 

I did however record the conversations with me informing them they were treating me incorrectly and unfairly and their answer basically was nowt we can do.

 

Do I need to write to them and send copy in ongoing complaint to fos.

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loop, you do need to write and accept the unlawful recsission. For two reasons one it will focus their minds, such that they have, and two it will let them know that you know that relevant laws.

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Once you have accepted the unlawful recision they can send any number of correct DNs, it won't make a bit of difference ;)


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These probably are very stupid questions but:

 

a) can a bank terminate an agreement whilst there is an ongoing dispute?

 

b) on its own does that make their action unlawful or only if combined

with other factors such as invalid DN's?

 

c) is there legislation to help the consumer in this respect?

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These probably are very stupid questions but:

 

a) can a bank terminate an agreement whilst there is an ongoing dispute? As far as I know 78(6) does not prevent termination. I am pretty sure that the Rankine case could be used to argue that termination as a necessary part of legal action would be allowed

 

b) on its own does that make their action unlawful or only if combined

with other factors such as invalid DN's? only a non compliant/no DN can lead to unlawful rescission on termination.

 

c) is there legislation to help the consumer in this respect?

hope that helps

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Certainly does ;)

 

Thank you.

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Certainly does ;)

 

Thank you.

 

In a good way I hope, despite that damn badge on your avatar!

 

I assume you were pre-empting a we could not terminate because it was in dispute arguement therefore we can reissue the DN. The first part of the Rankine ruling is all about legal action whilst in 78(6) dispute. The court ruled that 78(6) dispute does not prevent court action PLUS there is not mention in 76 or 98 of contingency on any part of 78.

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It was to cover me!

 

Bank terminated loan a/c Nov 09 after invalid DN whilst complaint with FOS re PPI mis-selling. I however, have not yet posted letter to accept their termination & since then they have sent a further invalid DN so think I'd better find that acceptance letter to send (with the original date of Nov on) ;)

 

PS - leave my avatar alone :lol:

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Thanks for info, will get onto sending letter asap.

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It was in quotes because it was colloquial northern speak!:p and anyway with an apostrophe (tha's) it would be present possessive, assuming of course that it was ever a real word!

 

And as dicky says loop you must now accept their unlawful rescission.

 

eyupp, tha knows thee stuff

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i sent Cahhot a SAR in February - just received a load of screen dumps from 2000 onwards including the application process - which is again a screen shot, they have failed to send me any agreement or any reference to a DN or even a made up agreement - does this mean that this account is now in dispute again?

 

why on earth do they send all the screen dumps yet no agreement, especially as all the screen dumps show my new address, when I had opened this credit card acc, back in 2000 at another address in another county.

 

All advice greatly appreciated

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bump for advice

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bump for advice

 

You're better to start a new thread of your own for help. This one hasn't been posted on since before christmas 2009, so you're unlikely to get many people seeing your post and giving advice. :)


These are video links to show how I deal with Debt Collectors.

 

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http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zPtzK8FqE6k&feature=related

 

Frederickson International don't accept my card type

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eiZBULlWW6Q&feature=related

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