Help required please....

[Baggio]

Hi, i am a regular over on the Debt Action Group and not very up to date with Council Tax (CT) issues/law and how they effect the consumer.

 

Trying to help a family member with outstanding CT arrears, and as nasty bailiffs are now involved was just wanting to know the legals of how they actually can operate...

 

so here is the statu quo

 

£550 arrears, liabilty order issued, gone to baillifs, no goods ever levied, but yesterday they turned up very early in the morning and parked a van outside their house and done nothing but then post a letter saying they had atteneded and now the outstanding is £854, the letter also states they will be back in a few days time to removed goods which can be done in their absence???

 

1) where has the £300 odd extra come from, is this legal? how can we check or are there any templates to use?

 

2) can they actually remove in their absences? surely that would be breaking and entering??

 

Many thanks in advance for all the advice given.

[Baggio]

anybody help?

[Baggio]

anybody?

[Conniff]

Sorry about the slow response Baggio. They cannot charge for the van which is not required until they have entered the house and done the list of all they will take, so their letter wont be getting suntan where they can put that.

 

After a couple of attempts to enter and on continual refusal, they will hand it back to the council.

 

There are strict rules on bailiffs and council tax arrears collection.

[Baggio]

Sorry about the slow response Baggio. They cannot charge for the van which is not required until they have entered the house and done the list of all they will take, so their letter wont be getting suntan where they can put that.

 

After a couple of attempts to enter and on continual refusal, they will hand it back to the council.

 

There are strict rules on bailiffs and council tax arrears collection.

 

Wonderful, thanks so much for the response Conniff.

 

Is there any precise rhetoric i can pass on to my sister-in-law to use when speaking to the bailiffs?

 

Like asking for certain breakdowns of costs or licenses... lol i suppose i am trying to tie this in with all the CCA stuff in the debt group and looking for a kind of template of how to proceed.

[Conniff]

Everything you always wanted to know but were afraid to ask:

 

Certificated bailiff,uncertificated bailiff,bailiff fees,bailiff charges,illegal distress,Subject Access Request,Detailed Assessment,irregular distress,How to complain about a bailiff

[Woozel]

I've just tried clicking that link, but it's gone to the Cbeebies website!

[Rooster-UK]

I've just tried clicking that link, but it's gone to the Cbeebies website!

That is because it is an unauthorised link.

 

I'll move this thread into the Bailiffs Forum.

Hopefully, Tomtubby will be able to help and advise you. She is an expert on dealing with bailiffs.

 

Regards, Rooster.

[Nintendo Pü]

 

1) where has the £300 odd extra come from, is this legal? how can we check or are there any templates to use?

 

2) can they actually remove in their absences? surely that would be breaking and entering??

 

1. Its what bailiffs call reasonable costs. the law doesnt obligate you to pay them if a bailiffs cannot show its reasonable. If no goods have been transported in a van then a bailiff cannot charge you anything. Otherwise the statutority bailifffs fee is £24.50.

 

2. No, the law doesnt provide for bailiffs to commit breaking & entering. You must never let them in your home.

[ploddertom]

Hi, i am a regular over on the Debt Action Group and not very up to date with Council Tax (CT) issues/law and how they effect the consumer.

 

Trying to help a family member with outstanding CT arrears, and as nasty bailiffs are now involved was just wanting to know the legals of how they actually can operate...

 

so here is the statu quo

 

£550 arrears, liabilty order issued, gone to baillifs, no goods ever levied, but yesterday they turned up very early in the morning and parked a van outside their house and done nothing but then post a letter saying they had atteneded and now the outstanding is £854, the letter also states they will be back in a few days time to removed goods which can be done in their absence???

 

1) where has the £300 odd extra come from, is this legal? how can we check or are there any templates to use?

 

2) can they actually remove in their absences? surely that would be breaking and entering??

 

Many thanks in advance for all the advice given.

 

Welcome to the dungeons where us be fighting with dragons.

 

Seriously though family need to find out from Council how much Liability Order is for, how much is still outstanding and when it was given to the Bailiffs.

 

The Bailiff can only charge for 2 visits no matter how many times he calls,£24-50 first visit & £18 second visit. This is providing he has not gained entry or otherwise been able to make a levy. There no letter charges, enforcement fees etc.

 

They can try and ask the Council to take the debt back but if they are not on Benefits or classed as vulnerable then the chances are the request will be refused.

 

Payments - personally I would never pay the Bailiff 1p, instead try and pay the Council a regular payment they can afford online, by automated phone or Billpay if the Council are registered.

 

At any cost prevent the Bailiff entering the home, he is allowed peaceful entry only through an unlocked door or window. Clear the garden/yard of any loose items and if you have outbuildings secure them. If there is a car then park it well away.

 

The Bailiff cannot have you arrested, break in or bring a locksmith unless he has been in previously, he may threaten to call the Police but they are only there to prevent a Breach of the Peace.

 

Once he realises that he has no control over you then he will go and molest some other poor unfortunate.

 

There is plenty of help available here so shout loud if you need a hand.

 

PT

[Conniff]

no longer relevent

Edited November 27, 2009 by Conniff

[Conniff]

That is because it is an unauthorised link.

 

I'll move this thread into the Bailiffs Forum.

Hopefully, Tomtubby will be able to help and advise you. She is an expert on dealing with bailiffs.

 

Regards, Rooster.

 

I know it's a commercial site, but has some good info there.

[tomtubby]

I know it's a commercial site, but has some good info there.

 

This is our website but as it is a commercial site we have to abide by the CAG rules, There is plenty of info BUT if we were allowed to have a link on here that would be unfair to all the other posters who may have business sites.

 

As the link is not allowed, I do try to ensure that I visit each post to see whether I can assist...BUT then again we have some very knowledgeable regulars on here offering excellent advice as well.

[Conniff]

We all know 'whose the daddy' when it comes to bailiffs (sorry can't see a feminine equivelent for that)

 

Thanks Tt

[Nintendo Pü]

I googled the expression -Certificated bailiff,uncertificated bailiff,bailiff fees,bailiff charges,illegal distress,Subject Access Request,Detailed Assessment,irregular distress,How to complain about a bailiff

 

it points to a site called BAO, if that is yours then ditch the credit card forms and 0906 premium rate stuff and register as a charity. Its no longer a commercial site and would comply with forum rules as they stand as of todays date.

 

edit: just had a read.thru that website. You might want to have a lawyer check the facts, it has a number of technical inaccuracies and out of date information. Some of them is on a downloads page, and appears to charge a fee by way of premium rate line to access that information.

Edited November 27, 2009 by Nintendo Pü

[tomtubby]

1. Its what bailiffs call reasonable costs. the law doesnt obligate you to pay them if a bailiffs cannot show its reasonable. If no goods have been transported in a van then a bailiff cannot charge you anything. Otherwise the statutority bailifffs fee is £24.50.

 

2. No, the law doesnt provide for bailiffs to commit breaking & entering. You must never let them in your home.

 

The fee of £300 is clearly described as an "enforcement fee" which is really an "attending to remove fee"

 

However there is appeal court case law (Evans v South Ribble District Council) that confirms that a bailiff CANNOT apply such a fee UNLESS he has PREVIOUSLY levied upon goods.

 

In any event if this fee could be applied at this stage (which is doubtful) the statutory regulations provide that the fee can only be "reasonable".

 

£300 CANNOT in any way be seen as "reasonable" and in any event can be challenged on the basis of a recent court ruling (Culligan v Marston Group)

 

 

 

Which bailiff company is this?

[Baggio]

this is fantastic stuff, thank you very much folks.

 

bailiffs are equita

 

and now on to my final question

 

levy on goods... apparently the bailiff has made a levy on a hoover, because he saw it through a letter box, he believes he can levy a good if he can simply view it by looking through a letterbox

 

is this fact? or more fiction?

[Nintendo Pü]

Fiction, a levy on goods is by way of a walking possessions agreement. If you havnt agreed to your goods being levied, or the bailiff did not give you reasonable opprtunity to pay before stuffing it trhrough your door then the levy fee can be disregarded.

[Baggio]

ok so its complete rollox for him to suggest he can levy any good by simply looking through a letterbox and viewing it sitting in the hallway?

[Nintendo Pü]

Yes. the bailiff is trying to swindle you with his fees pretending he has a valid levy. Thats why he just stuck it in your door, bailiffs call this hit & run. Its a [problem].

 

A bailiff who dishonestly charges for work that has not been done will be committing an arrestable offence under the Fraud Act 2006. Section 2 of the Act specifically describes a person dishonestly makes a false representation and intends, by making the representation, to make a gain for himself or another, or cause a loss to another, or expose another to a risk of loss.

[Baggio]

Yes. the bailiff is trying to swindle you with his fees pretending he has a valid levy. Thats why he just stuck it in your door, bailiffs call this hit & run. Its a [problem].

 

A bailiff who dishonestly charges for work that has not been done will be committing an arrestable offence under the Fraud Act 2006. Section 2 of the Act specifically describes a person dishonestly makes a false representation and intends, by making the representation, to make a gain for himself or another, or cause a loss to another, or expose another to a risk of loss.

 

Nintendo that is just the perfect post, thank you so much for taking out the time to help.

[hallowitch]

ok so its complete rollox for him to suggest he can levy any good by simply looking through a letterbox and viewing it sitting in the hallway?

 

 

this will also help you regarding the levy

 

EVANS v SOUTH RIBBLE BOROUGH COUNCIL (1991)

 

 

 

Background:

This case was an Appeal by a Community Charge payer against the decision of the Magistrates Court that had dismissed her complaint against the bailiffs that had levied on goods on behalf of her local authority: South Ribble Borough Council.

 

The bailiff had attended at Mrs Evans property for £341 of arrears. Mrs Evans was not at home when the bailiff visited, the bailiff then posted an envelope through her letter box containing a notice of Distress, a draft Walking Possession agreement signed by the bailiff and requiring Mrs Evan’s signature and return plus various other documents that explained the methods of payment, and the amount of the debt.

 

Mrs Evans did not return the Walking Possession; instead she sought legal advice about this method of seizure.

 

 

In his Judgment Mr Justice Simon Brown, reviewed the law and he concluded the following:

• “Once entry is made, very little in the way of seizure and impounding is required…...but there must in the first instance be an entry (into the property), thus: "it is my clear conclusion that external inspection and posting through the letterbox is a course of action insufficient to bring about the legal consequences of Distress”
  

And that: the process of distress consists ofthree stages;

· the entryinto the premises,

· the seizureof the goods

· the subsequent securing of the goods (generally called impounding)

[leeroy2009]

this will also help you regarding the levy

 

EVANS v SOUTH RIBBLE BOROUGH COUNCIL (1991)

 

 

 

Background:

This case was an Appeal by a Community Charge payer against the decision of the Magistrates Court that had dismissed her complaint against the bailiffs that had levied on goods on behalf of her local authority: South Ribble Borough Council.

 

The bailiff had attended at Mrs Evans property for £341 of arrears. Mrs Evans was not at home when the bailiff visited, the bailiff then posted an envelope through her letter box containing a notice of Distress, a draft Walking Possession agreement signed by the bailiff and requiring Mrs Evan’s signature and return plus various other documents that explained the methods of payment, and the amount of the debt.

 

Mrs Evans did not return the Walking Possession; instead she sought legal advice about this method of seizure.

 

 

 

 

In his Judgment Mr Justice Simon Brown, reviewed the law and he concluded the following:

• “Once entry is made, very little in the way of seizure and impounding is required…...but there must in the first instance be an entry (into the property), thus: "it is my clear conclusion that external inspection and posting through the letterbox is a course of action insufficient to bring about the legal consequences of Distress”
  

And that: the process of distress consists ofthree stages;

· the entryinto the premises,

· the seizureof the goods

· the subsequent securing of the goods (generally called impounding)

 

does this apply to distress warrants? ie the three stages have not been attempted in my case, yet they still charge me visit fees, and as such philips have incured no costs in executing the distress warrant, because it has not been executed.

 

cheers

[hallowitch]

sorry I really don't know

however i have been watching your thread and if thats anything to go by you wont be long in finding out

 

i wish you good luck

[leeroy2009]

sorry I really don't know

however i have been watching your thread and if thats anything to go by you wont be long in finding out

 

i wish you good luck

 

 

thanks anyway witch x , its still a point i can submit to the ombudsmun and my solicitor

 

may i copy this post to my thread please? (the three stages just so i have a record)