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    • With regard to your question on post 207 if you bring in the points that I made on the validity of the contract they are supposed to have with Peel holdings then mention that there are already doubts about the validity of the contracts that are being used by the PPCs and the OPS is a classic example. Once you are on there you should then try and get your other point in after that.   if it is in connection with the extra charge of £60 remind the Judge that the charge has been defined by many Court across England that the charge is an abuse of process which was covered in PE v Beavis at point 198    " The charge has to be and is set at a level which enables managers to recover the costs of operating the scheme"  IE the £100 charge covers all their expenses so nothing should be added.   as their WS claims an extra £60 that could be judged as perjurious since it is an additional sum that should be known by VCS and the author of the WS as a double recovery. Especially as they have already lost in Court for the same reason.   Another cause to prove that they do not comply with their Code of Conduct. file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/CamScanner%2008-05-2020%2016.34.59.pdf  Byelaws are statutory not arbitrary as their WS said on no .42 .   Best of Luck.   The above URL does not work but this one does http://forums.National Consumer Service.com/index.php?showtopic=133001    [20.1 is where  VCS  lost then 20.2 where they appealed and lost again . But read the whole thread as it may help you in other ways too.
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    • stop doing nolans job for them... there are numerous threads here in the same forum yours is in     no DN info to follow   dx    
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      They are not your friends and you owe them no loyalty or moral duty, that must remain only for yourself and your family.
       
      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
       
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
       
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      Your response is that you should treat it as a hobby.  I have numerous files of correspondence each faithfully organised showing the various letters from different DCA;s , solicitors etc with a mix of threats, inducements and offers.   It is like my stamp collection and I show it to anyone who is interested!
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Advice re CCA requests etc


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Hi, first of all great site, really helpful!

 

I've been reading through some of the stickies and am a bit confused by the jargon and acronyms!

 

Hopefully someone can advise me or point me in the right direction.

 

Basically my situation is that i am unemployed, and have been for a few years since having a bit of a personal crisis... have 4 debts with collection agencies;

 

1. Sainsbury bank loan, managed by "aktiv kapital" - about £5k, been making monthly £2 payments to this.

 

2. egg credit card, about £3k, managed by "credit solutions" - also have been making monthly £2 payments to this.

 

3. Carphone warehouse, about £400, managed by "credit solutions" - was making monthly £2 payments to this until about 6 months ago when they sent a cheque back saying the account has been closed with them, and to contact the client directly. Don't know a contact for carphone warehouse and have heard nothing since from them.

 

4. Sainsbury bank loan, about £600 - was managed by "wescot" - again i received a letter saying the account has been closed with them and to contact the client directly, about 3 months ago. Again, i've heard nothing since.

 

So my questions are:

 

what is a cca, and am i right in thinking that if i request this from 1 and 2 above, if they do not respond in 14 days i can put the account in dispute? What does putting the account in dispute involve? Does it mean a possible end to the debt?

 

Also if i receive a cca back what is my next step?

 

Lastly what should i do about 3 and 4 above? I haven't got a contact for the clients in each case, but i was expecting another debt company to get in touch for them both. As i haven't heard anything is it possible the client has written off the debt with each of those two?

 

I hope someone can help, and my apologies if i'm asking stupid questions that have been asked and answered a million times already! I'm just very confused about it all and need things explained in proper "idiot's guide" style with this stuff. :D

 

Finding this place has given me hope that i can get some control back over these things, or at least some advice on the best course of action. I'm a bit fed up of getting threatening and intimidating letters (especially from credit solutions) and then phoning them just for them to say that the letter was sent in error... yeah right! it'd be great to be able to get them off my back.

 

Thanks in advance for any help! :)

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Hi and welcome to the forums

 

Hi, first of all great site, really helpful!

 

I've been reading through some of the stickies and am a bit confused by the jargon and acronyms! We've all been there! Keep reading, and you'll be spouting acronyms at will soon.

 

Hopefully someone can advise me or point me in the right direction.

 

Basically my situation is that i am unemployed, and have been for a few years since having a bit of a personal crisis... have 4 debts with collection agencies;

 

1. Sainsbury bank loan, managed by "aktiv kapital" - about £5k, been making monthly £2 payments to this.

 

2. egg credit card, about £3k, managed by "credit solutions" - also have been making monthly £2 payments to this.

 

Make a request for a copy of the agreement, don't forget to include the £1, send it at least by recorded delivery. Standard advice is not to sign it, but this has been causing problems recently so I would suggest sign as normal, but then put a line right through the middle of your sig so that any attempt at a copy and paste job will be obvious. Send your request to the current DCA (debt collection agency).

 

3. Carphone warehouse, about £400, managed by "credit solutions" - was making monthly £2 payments to this until about 6 months ago when they sent a cheque back saying the account has been closed with them, and to contact the client directly. Don't know a contact for carphone warehouse and have heard nothing since from them.

 

4. Sainsbury bank loan, about £600 - was managed by "wescot" - again i received a letter saying the account has been closed with them and to contact the client directly, about 3 months ago. Again, i've heard nothing since.

 

Not much you can do until they get in touch, by which time you'll have so much experience you'll know exactly what to do about them.

 

So my questions are:

 

what is a cca, and am i right in thinking that if i request this from 1 and 2 above, if they do not respond in 14 days i can put the account in dispute? What does putting the account in dispute involve? Does it mean a possible end to the debt?

 

Also if i receive a cca back what is my next step?

 

It depends on what, if anything, they supply. They are obliged to respond within 12 days (plus 2 for postage) but the practical effect if they don't is nothing because the powers that be can't seem to even agree on what constitues 'enforcement' let alone do anything about stopping every tom dick and harry from flouting every rule in the book. Once you've made your request, you don't need to do anything until you get a response, unless someone starts hassling you. Once the 14 days has passed, if they haven't responded, it's up to you if you keep paying.

When/if you get a response, scan whatever they send, remove any personal details, account numbers or barcodes, and post it on this thread for further advice.

 

Lastly what should i do about 3 and 4 above? I haven't got a contact for the clients in each case, but i was expecting another debt company to get in touch for them both. As i haven't heard anything is it possible the client has written off the debt with each of those two?

 

It is possible, but without contact details there's nothing you can do at the moment except wait and see.

 

I hope someone can help, and my apologies if i'm asking stupid questions that have been asked and answered a million times already! I'm just very confused about it all and need things explained in proper "idiot's guide" style with this stuff. :D

 

There are no stupid questions. If you don't understand something, ask. Of course it might help if you've already had a search around the forums yourself as mostly you will find the answer, but only if you know where to look. Best advice is find any threads that appear similar to your problems (that's just about every single one in the debt forum) and read, read some more, and then read a few more. It will all start to make sense.

 

Finding this place has given me hope that i can get some control back over these things, or at least some advice on the best course of action. I'm a bit fed up of getting threatening and intimidating letters (especially from credit solutions) and then phoning them just for them to say that the letter was sent in error... yeah right! it'd be great to be able to get them off my back.

 

Stop phoning them immediately. From now on, absolutely everything in writing. Either ignore the phone or refuse to go through security. If you want some more creative ideas, find a thread called something like 'cheekiness to a DCA'. At the very least, it's entertaining. If they hassle you by post and you want some pointers as to what, if anything, to respond, just ask.

 

Thanks in advance for any help! :)

 

You're welcome. I was a newbie once and got lots of help, I'm just passing it along.

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RMW

"If you want my parking space, please take my disability" Common car park sign in France.

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Hi sparky, welcome to the house of fun, just want to say I agree with RMW 100%. I know navigation to the letters can be hard so here is the cca request letter taken from here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

Ask your creditor for a copy of your credit agreement under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

 

1 High Street,

Newtown,

Kent

R21 4RH

 

June 28, 2006

 

 

The Loan Company

Company House,

Church Street,

Newtown,

Kent,

R1 7HG

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:− Account/Reference Number 4563210025897412

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77 will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

We look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

Mr A N Other

 

They have 12 working days plus 2 for postage to reply. Send by recorded delivery. Do NOT sign the letter and send a postal order for the £1 - do not use a cheque - you have to sign that and it gives them you bank details

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Thanks to you both! (this place should have "thanks" buttons!)

 

ok i'll get that letter sent off to the top two ones this weekend. A payment is due on each by the end of the month but am i right in thinking that i do not need to pay anything until i at least get a cca back from them?

 

I'm anticipating getting the usual threatening letter about doorstep collection agents / notice of home visit etc which is what they send as soon as any payment is even a couple of days late!

 

Regarding the bottom two ones which were closed with the dca's i'll just leave them be then. Is it their responsibility to contact me with regards to collecting the debt?

 

If and when i get a response from 1 and 2 i'll post back what i've got (not got a scanner but i'll manually type it in!)

 

regarding bank details, they do know my bank details already as i've been paying them with cheques previously - what are the dangers of them knowing these details?

 

Lastly if i don't get a response from my cca request is there a formal procedure to put the account in dispute (eg a letter or something)? And is it the case then that i don't need to make any payments to them, even if (for example) they produce a cca after say a month?

 

Thanks again for being gentle with a noob! :)

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Thanks to you both! (this place should have "thanks" buttons!)

It does you click the 'scales' on the left for the person you want to thank

ok i'll get that letter sent off to the top two ones this weekend. A payment is due on each by the end of the month but am i right in thinking that i do not need to pay anything until i at least get a cca back from them?

I wouldn't, some would. My view is you now dispute liability so why accept laibility by paying until they provide the paperwork

 

I'm anticipating getting the usual threatening letter about doorstep collection agents / notice of home visit etc which is what they send as soon as any payment is even a couple of days late!

Add in the doorstep threat template to the cca one

 

Regarding the bottom two ones which were closed with the dca's i'll just leave them be then. Is it their responsibility to contact me with regards to collecting the debt?

Let sleeping dogs snore

 

If and when i get a response from 1 and 2 i'll post back what i've got (not got a scanner but i'll manually type it in!)

 

OK, but that could prove tricky for enforceability of an agreement to be assesed

 

regarding bank details, they do know my bank details already as i've been paying them with cheques previously - what are the dangers of them knowing these details?

Are you refering to the theft act or the fraud act?:p

 

Lastly if i don't get a response from my cca request is there a formal procedure to put the account in dispute (eg a letter or something)? And is it the case then that i don't need to make any payments to them, even if (for example) they produce a cca after say a month?

There is a dispute letter to send after the 14 days are up. After that technically they need a court order to enforce but lets see what they comeup with

 

Thanks again for being gentle with a noob! :)

 

Just take it one step at a time and see what they come back with then deal with that

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Thanks again - i'll get those sent off this weekend. I'll also see if i can use someone's scanner to post up any reply i get if that would make it easier for someone to advise me further.

 

I couldn't see a doorstep collection or account in dispute template in the link you provided - am i looking in the wrong place?

 

Re the bottom two in my OP i'll let those sleeping dogs snore away then!:D

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Have a good browse in the letter templates section, if nothing else you'll be amazed at what there are templates for!

 

If you still can't find them, let us know and I'll post a link. I tend not to post links as a) I'm lazy and b) I think it's better for people to find their own way around the forum if they can.

RMW

"If you want my parking space, please take my disability" Common car park sign in France.

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I'm looking in*The Consumer Forums> The Consumer Forums Debt Action Group> General Debt Issues > Creditors and DCAs - Letter Templates & Budget Planner that hungrybear linked to, but can't see a template for "doorstep collection" or for "account in dispute"! :oops:

 

Am i being dumb? (probably - it happens a lot with me!) I'm not sure i'm looking in the right place... I'm not being lazy, just confused! :confused:

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Doorstep letter is here http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/590-letter-used-when-a-dca-threatens-a-doorstep-visit-

 

I can't find 'account in dispute' either. If I happen upon a link to it, I'll post again otherwise I expect one of the more efficient Caggers will find it for you.

RMW

"If you want my parking space, please take my disability" Common car park sign in France.

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Hi I'm a newbie too. :)

 

I found this... I believe it to be the letter you send once they don't send a vaild cca.

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOURSELVES OR ANY COMPANY YOU MAY REPRESENT & THE ACCOUNT IS DISPUTE..!!

 

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me, the contents of which are noted. I appreciate your quick response to my original letter. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

 

My request remains outstanding. The items you sent in your reply, does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. It neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.

 

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

You had until XX/XX/2008 to provide me with the true copy I requested. You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

 

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

 

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office

 

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies.

 

Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

 

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Hope this helps..!!!

 

 

xXx Good Luck xXx

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I'm looking in*The Consumer Forums> The Consumer Forums Debt Action Group> General Debt Issues > Creditors and DCAs - Letter Templates & Budget Planner that hungrybear linked to, but can't see a template for "doorstep collection" or for "account in dispute"! :oops:

 

Am i being dumb? (probably - it happens a lot with me!) I'm not sure i'm looking in the right place... I'm not being lazy, just confused! :confused:

 

 

yes, I still find it difficult to navigate to the various template directories, it's not a newbie thing.

 

Helen's letter is the right one for the dispute

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Ah, thanks again to you all (rep given too!) - just going to cut / paste and get those letters done now. I'll report back if and when i hear back from them (or if I hear nothing too). Really appreciate the help! :)

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Ah, thanks again to you all (rep given too!) - just going to cut / paste and get those letters done now. I'll report back if and when i hear back from them (or if I hear nothing too). Really appreciate the help! :)

 

In the spirit of forewarned is forearmed:

 

Often a normal initial response is to try and play on your self esteem and try to create doubt. Here is an extract from an e-mail I received about a year ago from a Bryan White at Mackenzie Hall. I should point out that 3 weeks later I got a 'sorry there is no cca letter and I havent heard from them since about February!):

 

In fact what the hell, here's the whole e-mail:

 

The fact that you have already paid £750 through Standing Order payments from your bank account signify that you are well aware what you are paying towards.

It is unfortunate that you have lost the original credit agreement Lloyds TSB provided when you opened the account with them. At the end of the day the safekeeping of such documentation is your responsibility.

Obviously printing a letter that you found on a website on the internet, shows that you are aware that you are in debt, and are looking for loopholes in order to avoid making further payments. I can appreciate that you may be looking for advice from the internet if you are in financial disarray, but I would hope that you fully understood the nature of the claims you were making.

I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company or any company you claim to represent’

The above statement is untrue considering you have made payments towards the debt through your bank account directly into Mackenzie Hall’s bank account after you sent a completed Standing Order mandate back to our office on the 13/12/05 with your signature on it …..AGAIN AN ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF THE DEBT! Add this to the fact that over the years of Mackenzie Hall’s involvement in this matter you have spoken to many operators and offered varying reasons for non-payment and various offers of re-payment!

Please contact myself directly on 01563 554 799 to discuss the account and the reason behind your payments of £25 per month coming to a halt in October 2008.

 

- can you guess the reason the payments stopped? And they never have and never will get another penny

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Thanks for the warning - i'll bear that in mind. I fully expect something similar as my last payment to both of them (no.s 1 and 2 in my OP) was a month ago.

 

Did you do anything after receiving that email, or just ignore them as you had a cca request pending?

 

Just wondering what i should do if i get into a similar situation!

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In the spirit of forewarned is forearmed:

Often a normal initial response is to try and play on your self esteem and try to create doubt. Here is an extract from an e-mail I received about a year ago from a Bryan White at Mackenzie Hall. I should point out that 3 weeks later I got a 'sorry there is no cca letter and I havent heard from them since about February!):

In fact what the hell, here's the whole e-mail:

The fact that you have already paid £750 through Standing Order payments from your bank account signify that you are well aware what you are paying towards.

It is unfortunate that you have lost the original credit agreement Lloyds TSB provided when you opened the account with them. At the end of the day the safekeeping of such documentation is your responsibility.

Obviously printing a letter that you found on a website on the internet, shows that you are aware that you are in debt, and are looking for loopholes in order to avoid making further payments. I can appreciate that you may be looking for advice from the internet if you are in financial disarray, but I would hope that you fully understood the nature of the claims you were making.

I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company or any company you claim to represent’

The above statement is untrue considering you have made payments towards the debt through your bank account directly into Mackenzie Hall’s bank account after you sent a completed Standing Order mandate back to our office on the 13/12/05 with your signature on it …..AGAIN AN ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF THE DEBT! Add this to the fact that over the years of Mackenzie Hall’s involvement in this matter you have spoken to many operators and offered varying reasons for non-payment and various offers of re-payment!

Please contact myself directly on 01563 554 799 to discuss the account and the reason behind your payments of £25 per month coming to a halt in October 2008.

- can you guess the reason the payments stopped? And they never have and never will get another penny

 

That is definitely one for the OFT to read, it almost makes you want to cry.....with laughter:lol:

 

Who the hell do they really think they are....

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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It is interesting that they consider the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 a "loophole". Presumably that is why they are so willing to break other laws, regulations and guidelines - they must all be "loopholes" too :mad:

 

Good spot! That will interest the OFT:D

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi again!

 

Ok I've received replies from the two DAC's.

 

I got one from Aktiv Kapital saying the account is on hold and they're going back to Sainsbury Bank to get the paperwork. So I can sit tight and wait that one out. :)

 

(Incidentally it's been nearly the 12+2 days now so what happens if they send the credit agreement after the allotted time?)

 

The one that has me a bit confused is the response from Credit Solutions. They've returned my letter and postal order and attached a slip saying "please contact our client directly at the below address with your request" - and given an address for the "data collection team" at Egg. :-|

 

How should I proceed with this second one? From what I've read elsewhere it seems that they are responsible for getting the documentation from Egg. Should I be writing back to them to say this (and resending the postal order)? Or should I forward my request to Egg at thhe address they gave me?

 

Any advice would be much appreciated!

 

Thanks again, sparky

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I don't know why they persist in playing these silly games :rolleyes: After the 12+2 days are up, you send each DCA an "in dispute" letter. It is their responsibility to supply the agreement under the law, whatever they say. If they want to play silly games, that's their problem, not yours. The debt will still be disputed and they are not allowed to take any enforcement action while it is.

 

If they do eventually send an agreement, post it here with your details removed.The chances of AK having an enforceable agreement are slim.

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Yeah, the Aktiv one I guess I can just chill on, and wait to see what they come back with (if anything).

 

The Credit Solutions one has me a in a bit of a kerfuffle though - as they've returned my letter and £1 postal order... should I write back to them and explain that they are responsible for contacting the client (and resend the £1 postal order) or should I just disregard their reply as they have not complied with my CCA request?

 

Bit confused what I should do next... :-|

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Remind Credit solution of their legal obligations to provide you with this information, and tell them you want a copy of their complaints procedure by return of post/

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.
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Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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The only thing you should write back and tell them is that they have not complied with your lawful CCA request, and the alleged debt is therefore in dispute. You do not need to explain what the law is, they hold a credit licence, and are supposed to know what their obligations are. If they persist in their stupidity, then you have grounds for a complaint to the OFT.

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Yeah, the Aktiv one I guess I can just chill on, and wait to see what they come back with (if anything).

 

The Credit Solutions one has me a in a bit of a kerfuffle though - as they've returned my letter and £1 postal order... should I write back to them and explain that they are responsible for contacting the client (and resend the £1 postal order) or should I just disregard their reply as they have not complied with my CCA request?

 

Bit confused what I should do next... :-|

 

 

simplez, wait until their time is up and then send the dispute letter. If they can ask for the money then they have a Statutory duty to pass the CCA request to their client, get the reply and send it to you.

 

If they want to play muppets visit fraggle rock then let them carry one

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I'm thinking of sending them back the letter and postal order (that they sent back to me) with that paragraph highlighted - and on their cover slip writing "please see highlighted paragraph" - just so that way the ball is firmly back in their court.

 

Just would feel a bit better then i think, as you all say it's clear in the letter (and the law) that they are responsible for getting the documentation, whether they are the creditor or acting on behalf of the creditor...

 

However if they have sent back the £1 fee then maybe they'd use that as an excuse for not complying with the cca request, as i technically haven't paid the fee?

 

I suppose it can't do any harm... But if for some reason it's a bad idea, please let me know, after all you are all much more experienced than me in these things, it's all a bit confusing to me!

 

The 12+2 days is up next week, I'll be sending my account in dispute letter to both Aktiv and Credit Solutions then if I hear nothing more, I assume that's correct?

 

Thanks again for the help and advice too - this is a great site, i've already spread the word a bit, more people should stand up to these bullies.

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