British Gas and CRAs

[royboy68]

Sorry Dave, I was going to post the scan but decided to copy and paste the relevant part, there was a lot of other crap on there that wasnt relevant.

[what_todo]

What_Todo, I certainly wasn't informed of CRA reporting when I first signed up with British Gas. My details were taken to do a credit check in relation to a security deposit. No data was reported by BG on my accounts until *after* I was sent a final bill ( I moved house & changed suppliers )

quote]

 

the same to me, my details olny want to do a credit check and in relation to a security deposit

 

i did mine via the fone beginning/end 08/09 and i am sure nothing was said about a CRA.

[nottslad]

I would start the complaints process, however I am not a BG customer so it has no relevance to me. Perhaps all of you affected by this issue could get together in order to sort something out in terms of making a group complaint.

 

Speak to your friends regarding this - the more examples of this malpractive the more successful any complaint will be. BG are clearly in the wrong if they have not re-issued Ts and Cs to customers advising of the data sharing..

 

A way to tell if they have re-issued their Ts and Cs to you would be to ask for a Subject Access Request. After speaking with a knowledgable friend, they have advised that BG should have maybe sent a letter enclosing their new Ts and Cs and if you are not happy what you can do to prevent this ie changing to a different supplier who does not share data in the same way.

[what_todo]

just seen the below taken from Terms and Conditions - British Gas

 

(note, the below is there web Site Terms and Conditions)

 

 

Changes to terms and records of agreements

 

We have the right to change these terms and conditions at any time by putting the changes on the website. It is your responsibility to read the website terms and conditions regularly to make sure you are aware of any changes. If you use this website after we have made a change, we will take this to mean you have accepted the revised terms and conditions. We recommend that, from time to time, you print off and keep a copy of these terms and conditions, and a copy of any terms and conditions relating to any product or service you apply for online, together with any related application form which you have filled in. We or, if appropriate, the company you have a contract with must agree, in writing, any change to the terms and conditions.

 

 

 

i never agree to anything in writing. did anyone else? i did all mine over the phone.

Edited January 10, 2010 by what_todo

[nottslad]

And what about for all the customers who do not have internet access

[what_todo]

the below is taken from

 

Standard Dual Fuel - Terms and Conditions-British Gas

 

Using personal information

 

10.1 We or our agents may use information about you to:

 

(a) identify you when you contact us so that we know exactly who we are speaking to;

 

(b) offer you accounts, services and products from time to time (we may do this using an automatic scoring system, which also uses information about you from other agencies, including credit-reference agencies);

 

© help run, and contact you about improving the way we run, any accounts, services and products we have provided before, provide now or may provide in the future (we may also contact you by e-mail or text message if you have given us these contact details);

 

(d) create statistics, test computer systems, analyse customer information and create marketing opportunities (including using information about what you buy from us and how you pay for it, for example the amount of gas or electricity you use and any discounts we have offered you);

 

(e) help to prevent and detect fraud or loss; and

 

(f) contact you in any way (including by post, e-mail, phone, text or multimedia messages or visiting you) about products and services we and our partners offer.

 

10.2 We may allow other people and organisations to use information we hold about you:

 

(a) to provide services you have asked for;

 

(b) as part of selling one or more of our businesses;

 

© to help to prevent and detect debt, fraud, or loss (for example by giving this information to a credit-reference agency). If you do not pay your debt, we may transfer your debt to another organisation and give them details about you and that debt;

 

(d) if we have been asked (for example by Ofgem or a lawyer) to provide information for legal or regulatory purposes;

 

(e) as part of current or future legal action;

 

(f) as part of government data-sharing initiatives; or

 

(g) if you hold an insurance policy with us, to pass information to an insurer to manage your insurance policy (including underwriting and claims, to help develop new services and to assess financial and insurance risk).

From time to time, these other people and organisations may be outside the European Economic Area (EEA) in countries that do not have the same standards of protection for personal information as the UK.

 

10.3 We may also let companies in our group (including British Gas, Scottish Gas and Dyno Group) use your information to do any of the things mentioned in clauses 10.1 and 10.2.

 

10.4 We may use your information to help train our staff. We may also monitor and record any communications we have with you (including phone conversations and e-mails) to make sure that we are providing a good service and to make sure we are meeting our legal and regulatory duties.

 

10.5 You agree that we can ask your previous supplier for information that will allow us to take over your supply, such as information about meter readings and equipment or charges you owe your previous supplier. You agree that we can provide information we hold about you (such as information about meter readings, equipment or money you owe us) to your new supplier so they can begin supplying your gas and electricity.

 

10.6 If we believe that you (or a member of your household) need extra care (for example, because of your age, health, disability or financial circumstances), we may record this in the information we hold about you. We will use this information so that we do not stop your supply. We may share your information with:

 

(a) social services, charities and other support organisations if we believe at any time that you cannot look after yourself or the other members of your household by making sure there is a gas or electricity supply to your home;

 

(b) other energy suppliers if we believe you are considering changing supplier (we assess which customers need extra care and record and share this information in line with the Energy Retail Association 'safety net procedures'); and

 

© the relevant gas transporter or network operator.

 

10.7 We will check your details with one or more credit-reference and fraud-prevention agencies to help us make decisions about your ability to make payments and the goods and services we can offer you. Below, we have given a brief guide to how we, the credit-reference and fraud-prevention agencies will use your information. If you would like more information about this, you can find the full version at Cheap Gas and Electricity, Boilers - Login Here - British Gas. Or, phone us on 0800 048 0202 and we will send you a leaflet.

 

Please download the leaflet here

 

(a) We will search at credit-reference and fraud-prevention agencies for information about you and all the people you are applying with. If you are providing information about other people on a joint application, you must make sure they agree that we can use their information to do this. If you give us false or inaccurate information and fraud is identified, we will pass your details to credit-reference and fraud-prevention agencies. Law-enforcement agencies (such as the police and HM Revenue & Customs) may receive and use this information.

 

 

(b) We and other organisations may also access and use information about you that credit-reference and fraud-prevention agencies give us to, for example:

• check details on applications you make for credit and credit-related services;
  
• check your identity;
  
• prevent and detect fraud and money laundering;
  
• manage credit and credit-related accounts or services;
  
• recover debt;
  
• check details on proposals and claims for all types of insurance; and
  
• check details of employees and people applying for jobs with us.
  

© When credit-reference agencies receive a search from us, they will record this on your credit file whether your application is successful or not.

 

 

(d) We and other organisations may access and use, from other countries, information recorded by fraud-prevention agencies.

 

(e) If you want to see what information credit-reference and fraud-prevention agencies hold about you, you can contact the following agencies currently working in the UK. The information they hold may not be the same, so it is worth contacting them all. They will charge you a small fee.

 

CallCredit

Consumer Services Team

PO Box 491

Leeds

LS3 1WZ

Phone: 0870 0601414

 

Equifax plc

Credit File Advice Centre

PO Box 1140

Bradford,

BD1 5US

Phone: 0870 010 0583

 

Website:www.myequifax.co.uk

 

Experian

Consumer Help Service

PO Box 8000

Nottingham NG80 7WF

Phone: 0870 241 6212

 

Website:www.experian.co.uk.

 

10.8 If you give us information on behalf of someone else, you confirm you have given them the information set out in this document, and that they have given permission for us to use their personal information in the way we have described in clause 10. If you give us sensitive information about yourself or other people (such as health details or details of any criminal convictions of members of your household), you agree (and confirm that the person the information is about has agreed) that we can use this information in the way set out in this document.

 

 

 

 

 

after reading that nowhere does it say that you c.file gets marked it olny time is does is when you become a b.gas customer.

[DaveMurphy]

It does in 10.2 © but, no matter, they still need to inform you of a change like that in writing.

 

There's another post at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/credit-reference-agencies/232235-dca-reporting-cra-where.html#post2573960 which mentions default notices being placed on credit files by DCAs acting for BG.

 

Best thing to do is probably take Nottslad's advice & issue a Subject Access Request. There's a template for that at

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/48-bank-templates/110--data-protection-act-1998-subject-access-request

 

I'm considering a CCA request too.

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/581-cca-request-letter

 

S10 notice may be in order as well.

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/586-legal-notice-issued-under-section-10-of-the-data-protection-act-1980

 

These seem mostly designed for banks and/or credit companies, could someone maybe take a look & see what should be done for a utility company?

Edited January 10, 2010 by DaveMurphy
add question

[pelham9]

Terms and Conditions - British Gas

 

DaveMurphy

 

Thanks for the link. However these Ts & Cs are for online accounts only and really only deals with online aspects. I want a copy of the Ts & Cs for a standard 'deemed' account which is not run on-line.

 

Two days ago I used the BG gas online message facility to ask yet again for a copy. A young man answered the next day ( wow!). He however could not help as 'we do not have a copy of these contract here'. He referred me to the online Ts & Cs which do not even say that gas has to be paid for (!) but promised to contact head office to further my request.

[nottslad]

And don't BG use brilliant grammar in their replies lol

 

A copy of standard terms and conditions shouldn't be that hard for them to get to you

[MARTIN3030]

10 Using personal information

 

10.1 We or our agents may use information about you to:

(a) identify you when you contact us so that we know exactly who we are speaking to;

(b) offer you accounts, services and products from time to time (we may do this using an automatic scoring system, which also uses information about you from other agencies, including credit-reference agencies);

© help run, and contact you about improving the way we run, any accounts, services and products we have provided before, provide now or may provide in the future (we may also contact you by e-mail or text message if you have given us these contact details);

(d) create statistics, test computer systems, analyse customer information and create marketing opportunities (including using information about what you buy from us and how you pay for it, for example the amount of gas or electricity you use and any discounts we have offered you);

(e) help to prevent and detect fraud or loss; and

(f) contact you in any way (including by post, e-mail, phone, text or multimedia messages or visiting you) about products and services we and our partners offer.

10.2 We may allow other people and organisations to use information we hold about you:

(a) to provide services you have asked for;

(b) as part of selling one or more of our businesses;

© to help to prevent and detect debt, fraud, or loss (for example by giving this information to a credit-reference agency). If you do not pay your debt, we may transfer your debt to another organisation and give them details about you and that debt;

(d) if we have been asked (for example by Ofgem or a lawyer) to provide information for legal or regulatory purposes;

(e) as part of current or future legal action;

(f) as part of government data-sharing initiatives; or

(g) if you hold an insurance policy with us, to pass information to an insurer to manage your insurance policy (including underwriting and claims, to help develop new services and to assess financial and insurance risk).

From time to time, these other people and organisations may be outside the European Economic Area (EEA) in countries that do not have the same standards of protection for personal information as the UK.

10.3 We may also let companies in our group (including British Gas, Scottish Gas and Dyno Group) use your information to do any of the things mentioned in clauses 10.1 and 10.2.

10.4 We may use your information to help train our staff. We may also monitor and record any communications we have with you (including phone conversations and e-mails) to make sure that we are providing a good service and to make sure we are meeting our legal and regulatory duties.

10.5 You agree that we can ask your previous supplier for information that will allow us to take over your supply, such as information about meter readings and equipment or charges you owe your previous supplier. You agree that we can provide information we hold about you (such as information about meter readings, equipment or money you owe us) to your new supplier so they can begin supplying your gas and electricity.

10.6 If we believe that you (or a member of your household) need extra care (for example, because of your age, health, disability or financial circumstances), we may record this in the information we hold about you. We will use this information so that we do not stop your supply. We may share your information with:

(a) social services, charities and other support organisations if we believe at any time that you cannot look after yourself or the other members of your household by making sure there is a gas or electricity supply to your home;

(b) other energy suppliers if we believe you are considering changing supplier (we assess which customers need extra care and record and share this information in line with the Energy Retail Association 'safety net procedures'); and

© the relevant gas transporter or network operator.

10.7 We will check your details with one or more credit-reference and fraud-prevention agencies to help us make decisions about your ability to make payments and the goods and services we can offer you. Below, we have given a brief guide to how we, the credit-reference and fraud-prevention agencies will use your information. If you would like more information about this, you can find the full version at Cheap Gas and Electricity, Boilers - Login Here - British Gas. Or, phone us on 0800 048 0202 and we will send you a leaflet.

Please download the leaflet here

(a) We will search at credit-reference and fraud-prevention agencies for information about you and all the people you are applying with. If you are providing information about other people on a joint application, you must make sure they agree that we can use their information to do this. If you give us false or inaccurate information and fraud is identified, we will pass your details to credit-reference and fraud-prevention agencies. Law-enforcement agencies (such as the police and HM Revenue & Customs) may receive and use this information.

(b) We and other organisations may also access and use information about you that credit-reference and fraud-prevention agencies give us to, for example:

 

• check details on applications you make for credit and credit-related services;
  
• check your identity;
  
• prevent and detect fraud and money laundering;
  
• manage credit and credit-related accounts or services;
  
• recover debt;
  
• check details on proposals and claims for all types of insurance; and
  
• check details of employees and people applying for jobs with us.
  

© When credit-reference agencies receive a search from us, they will record this on your credit file whether your application is successful or not.

(d) We and other organisations may access and use, from other countries, information recorded by fraud-prevention agencies.

(e) If you want to see what information credit-reference and fraud-prevention agencies hold about you, you can contact the following agencies currently working in the UK. The information they hold may not be the same, so it is worth contacting them all. They will charge you a small fee.

CallCredit

Consumer Services Team

PO Box 491

Leeds

LS3 1WZ

Phone: 0870 0601414

 

Equifax plc

Credit File Advice Centre

PO Box 1140

Bradford,

BD1 5US

Phone: 0870 010 0583

Website:www.myequifax.co.uk

Experian

Consumer Help Service

PO Box 8000

Nottingham NG80 7WF

Phone: 0870 241 6212

Website:www.experian.co.uk.

[MARTIN3030]

Standard Dual Fuel - Terms and Conditions-British Gas

 

 

 

These also apply to single supply Gas/Electricity.

[Duffers Mum]

Have now had a response to the email I sent them before Christmas (adverse weather to blame apparently for lack of response!)

 

I am sorry to learn that you are unhappy with my previous response. In answer to your enquiry as to whether we are allowed to send your account data to Credit Reference Agencies the answer is yes. Data sharing clauses have been in our Terms and Conditions since 1998 and therefore we have permission to share data on all accounts opened since then.

The data sharing clauses are contained within section 10 ‘using personal information’ and specifically within section 10.7 I confirm that I have sent you a leaflet which contains a full description on the ways in which we use customer data is also available online.

All customers who have an open gas and/or electricity account at the time that we move to full CAIS will be included within reporting.

The record will start reporting the payment status/history from the first month that we submit a report, not from when the account opened. No historical data will be submitted.

I confirm that we report the status of all gas and /or electricity accounts to Credit Reference Agencies whether you pay by monthly Direct Debit or by quarterly cash/cheque.

I hope you find my explanation of your enquiry to be satisfactory. If you have any further concerns regarding this matter then please do not hesitate to let me know.

Now my next question is when is an account opened? I originally opened my british gas account in 1996, and have been a customer ever since, however I suspect they may well say that everytime you move house, you have a new account, in which case, why haven't I ever been given anything to sign,or does my account just go with me from house to house?

I wonder who will be reporting on my credit file next, the Local Authority for council tax...the water people....the people in the chip shop.....the list could go on and on.

I still think this is well out of order and they still haven't given me details of their consumer credit licence!

[DaveMurphy]

Which begs the question of why they were informing some customers in the change to their relationship with credit reference agencies last september.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/utilities-gas-electricity-water/222306-changes-british-gas-credit.html

[nottslad]

Dave I would imagine it has been a massive change internally for BG and therefore phased through their customer base incase anything went wrong.

 

Duffers Mum, with regards to your point with regards to when an account is opened, there's a few different answers! When you approach a new supplier, an 'account' as in a customer record is opened then. If you move house, the account can either incorporate the new address or a totally new customer record can be created at that address - thats the way it works with EON anyway, not sure if BG behave in the same way.

 

Nevertheless, I still feel that BG should have advised their customers about their change to their Ts and Cs and how it may affect them and what they can do if they dont wish the information to change.

 

I would presume from a credit management point of view that CAIS reporting has been introduced so that the pay propensity of customers is increased - I've spoken to customers who have prioritised credit debts over gas/elec as they have no effect on credit status, which is really the wrong attitude to take...

[Duffers Mum]

I still think its wrong....I guess the only way to overcome this is to have a pre pay meter, as they seem to imply they record on every customer's credit file regardless of whether they pay by monthly dd or quarterly by cash or cheque. Yes I agree it might well help somebody's credit rating....in another way it just looks like another account.

 

I am with EDF for electricity but they don't do this...perhaps i'll change my gas over to them...might teach British Gas a lesson if they lost customers because of this!

[nottslad]

I'd probably change supplier too if I was in your situation and feel as annoyed as you obviously do... you'll probably get a better deal such as a dual fuel discount from EDF anyway, and in my experience they tend to be quite reasonable

[what_todo]

just want to bump up

[what_todo]

is there any more info about this?

[DaveMurphy]

Everything I can find on the subject says that the Data Protection Act requires explicit and informed consent for information sharing. I asked the Information Commissioner's Office for some clarification on this but I'm still waiting on a reply.

 

There's a good explanation of the DPA at Data Protection

 

In my opinion British Gas are in violation of :-

 

• The first principle - personal data must be processed fairly and legally. Very few customers have been made explicitly aware of the use of their data for CAIS.
  
• The second principle - personal data must only be processed for limited purposes and in an appropriate way. Again, explicit and informed consent is required for this to be true.
  
• The third principle - personal data must be relevant and not excessive for the purpose. They are collecting and storing telephone numbers and email addresses which are quite obviously not a requirement to manage an energy account.
  
• The fourth principle - personal data must be accurate and up to date. Given that credit reference agencies report monthly and British Gas bill quarterly I fail to see how they can adhere to this one.
  
• The sixth principle - personal data must be processed in accordance with the rights of the individual. Again this comes back to explicit and informed consent as well as the implication that such consent may not be withheld.
  

EU Law does not recognise implied consent, it *must* be explicit and informed. This was stated quite strongly in relation to ISPs sharing data with Phorm last year - http://nodpi.org/2009/05/28/meeting-at-the-eu-commission-in-brussels-27th-may-2009/

 

Unfortunately I'm not a lawyer so my opinion may not hold much weight but, having said that, I'm confident that we have good grounds for a major complaint. See Complaints about data protection policy - ICO

[what_todo]

hello all,

 

any update to this please?

 

i have phoned creditexpert up a few times about what there putting on my report.

 

i have told creditexpert to get proof that b.gas can mark my file and i am getting the run round.

 

b.gas are saying that there entry is right and must stay on my file. as post the post befor says "personal data must be processed fairly and legally"

 

i did mine over the phone and as far as my mind goes i can never rember i was told that "we send info to CRAs"

[Duffers Mum]

I'm just resigned to the fact that its there and I don't appear to be able to do anything about it

[what_todo]

after phoneing experian many time about this i have a small update to my c.file as below

 

 

Company name: BRITISH GAS TRADINGAccount type: ElectricitySpecial Instruction Indicator: Account Query

 

 

i will let you all know what happens next

[chockydardo]

Hi and sorry to dig up this thread, but i have just looked at my credit report from CreditExpert and to my amazement have found a "Default" entry from BG.

 

Started: 17/01/2007

Default Balance: £62

Current Balance: £50

Defaulted On: 17/08/2007

 

I know Duffers Mum was asking if anyone paid by any other methods, and yes i do. I have been on a card pre-pay meter for about 8 years, so to find i have an outstanding payment was a bit of a suprise (to say the least)

So with this being Saturday, i have to wait untill Monday to speak to somebody about it from BG (Wish me luck)

[what_todo]

Does everybody who has contributed to this thread pay by monthly direct debit? If not, can somebody who gets regular access to their credit file and pays their account quarterly by say cash or cheque, confirm whether British Gas have placed anything on their credit files?

 

 

hello,

 

yes i pay via quarterly cash and yes BG do mark my credit files

[what_todo]

after phoneing experian many time about this i have a small update to my c.file as below

 

 

Company name: BRITISH GAS TRADINGAccount type: ElectricitySpecial Instruction Indicator: Account Query

 

 

i will let you all know what happens next

 

 

notting happened, after 1 month my file was being remarked