Abbey and the Data Protection Act

[elizabeth1]

Jan,

 

I had to wait for my statements& SAR data off Abbey too - they did take a long time to send it etc.. and did all the usual microfiche arguments etc.. with me while I was waiting etc..

 

The lady who deals with the Subject Access Request data is Sheena Small her telephone number is 01908 344061 - I recommend you phone her explaining you are waiting etc.. and she will try ring around the relevant depts and see where your stuff is etc.. and chase it for you etc.. - she is OK to talk to (not at all intimidating) she will tell you how much longer your stuff will be etc.. and she will chase it hard for you - cause she realises they do have to supply the data to you etc.. - might be worth a phone call to her? At least that way you'll have an idea how much longer you'll be waiting?

[simonjohn]

Well it looks like the abbey are using new tactics.

 

Sent my DSAR request about a month ago, with enclosed cheque and Two utility bills (originals and not copies) at my new address as proof of ID, sent by first class signed for, which they received on the 21/10/06.

 

Received this letter today from Pam Speed:

 

 

Dear Mr xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Thanks for your recent request for copy statments.

 

I note that the address on your letter differs from that registered on your account.

 

As your account is closed and we are unable to change your details on our computer systems we require proof of identity in order to supply any transactional information in relation to the above account.

 

Therefore please find enclosed your £10 fee as we were unable to process your request.

 

Ok, so

 

1) what the hell were the councill tax bill and the water bill enclosed , if not proof of ID. "By the way I have a wittness that these 2 items were enclosed before the envelope was sealed up"

 

2) Why Have they not contacted me earlier requesting these documents if they were not, present with the letter.

 

I think the next step is a letter of complaint to the Information commisioner.

[Sutcliff2005]

My court date against abbey for their inability to comply with the data protection act is next week, i recieved a letter from abbey today admitting that the ico have ruled agianst them and claiming that i have everything they have to send me under the data protection act, but they have still not sent a complete set of microfiche records! sounds like they are digging their own grave again!

[simonjohn]

What concerns me is, "what have they done with my two forms of ID. Both the council tax bill and water bill" as they were the originals.

 

I posted the originals so they could not come back with the excuse that they would not accept copies!!!

[tamadus]

Well it looks like the abbey are using new tactics.

 

Sent my DSAR request about a month ago, with enclosed cheque and Two utility bills (originals and not copies) at my new address as proof of ID, sent by first class signed for, which they received on the 21/10/06.

 

Received this letter today from Pam Speed:

 

 

Dear Mr xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Thanks for your recent request for copy statments.

 

I note that the address on your letter differs from that registered on your account.

 

As your account is closed and we are unable to change your details on our computer systems we require proof of identity in order to supply any transactional information in relation to the above account.

 

Therefore please find enclosed your £10 fee as we were unable to process your request.

 

Ok, so

 

1) what the hell were the councill tax bill and the water bill enclosed , if not proof of ID. "By the way I have a wittness that these 2 items were enclosed before the envelope was sealed up"

 

2) Why Have they not contacted me earlier requesting these documents if they were not, present with the letter.

 

I think the next step is a letter of complaint to the Information commisioner.

 

I just had a very similar letter from Egg. The 40 days have expired and I get a letter saying that as they haven't recieved a reply to their letter asking for ID here is the cheque back.

 

The address on my letter is the same as on the account and my signature hasn't changed so that should be sufficient. I sent a letter enclosing the cheque back to them and telling them they have an extra 7 days before I report them to the ICO.

[Glenn UK]

Did you refer to the bills in your SAR or did you just pop them into the enevelope?

 

If its the former than write back remind them to send them back and tell them they have so many says to comply.

 

If its the latter then write back to them telling them they already have already had them in your envelope, tell them what they were instruct them to send them back and remind them they now have x days to comply.

 

For futrue reference make sure if you send documents that you make sure there is some way of them being able to confrim they have them ie if you had mentioned them in the SAR then there is no way they could deny it if they action the SAR.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

 

What concerns me is, "what have they done with my two forms of ID. Both the council tax bill and water bill" as they were the originals.

 

I posted the originals so they could not come back with the excuse that they would not accept copies!!!

[Glenn UK]

My court date against abbey for their inability to comply with the data protection act is next week, i received a letter from abbey today admitting that the Information Commissioners Office have ruled against them and claiming that i have everything they have to send me under the data protection act, but they have still not sent a complete set of microfiche records! sounds like they are digging their own grave again!

 

I am taking the Co-op to court for the same thing, i asked the court to order them to supply my data or for them to enter into court a statement as to why they couldn't supply my data.

 

You have a choice, do nothing and wait till it gets to court then go to court and explain to the court why you think they have more data, or you can write back to them asking them to enter a sworn statement into court that they do not hold any data on you in any filing system whatsoever either directly or operated by a third party. Perhaps you could add that they should confirm when the data you don't have was destroyed and perhaps they're could confirm they policy for the length of time the data is held and when its destroyed.

 

By the way is the account closed or open?

 

If its open then also ask why they have destroyed your records?

 

Basically its a question of making them supply all your data or showing why they cant, depending on how you worded you POC will depend on how to proceed.

 

You also have to be careful when writing to them because you cannot say they are lying, you can imply it, you can imply lots of things, but don't whatever you do call them liars.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

 

PS do you have a thread where all your info is posted?

[melochange23]

I didnt have any problem getting the information from Abbey even though it was on mocrofishe, my problem is getting them to admit they are at fault. They kindly offered to send me the relevent information without taking my £10 as an act of "customer service". They have written to me offering me £700 of the £3000 I asked for as a "goodwill jesture" and stated that there charges are completley lawful, (enclosing a leaflet) so what now??

[tamadus]

I didnt have any problem getting the information from Abbey even though it was on mocrofishe, my problem is getting them to admit they are at fault. They kindly offered to send me the relevent information without taking my £10 as an act of "customer service". They have written to me offering me £700 of the £3000 I asked for as a "goodwill jesture" and stated that there charges are completley lawful, (enclosing a leaflet) so what now??

 

Firtsly melochange it will be easier to help you if you start your own specific thread in the Abbey forum.

 

I assume their offer was in reply to your prelim letter, if so you can either decline it and send the LBA letter or accept it as a partial payment and reserve the right to continue your claim for the balance and still send the LBA. They are never going to admit they are at fault. if you have already sent the LBA then write a letter to them either accepting it as part payment or declining it then procede to moneyclaim in your time frame.

[MFaulkner]

Dear All

 

One thing she said is that they haven't heard from Abbey customers who are still waiting for their statements past 40 days. So if thats you make sure you send the details on to them so they can make sure Abbey fulfil their duty under the Data Protection Act.

 

Glenn

 

I am just filling out my Information Commissioner complaint form and was wondering if there is any specific text to include in section 6 - Details of the problem? I was just going to say that I had requested the statements under the DPA and that they had sent incomplete information (some statements and the microfische letter fobbing me off) and give them the dates of the letters sent and received. Is that enough or should I add anything else? Thank you.

[MFaulkner]

I am just filling out my Information Commissioner complaint form and was wondering if there is any specific text to include in section 6 - Details of the problem? I was just going to say that I had requested the statements under the Data Protection Act and that they had sent incomplete information (some statements and the microfische letter fobbing me off) and give them the dates of the letters sent and received. Is that enough or should I add anything else? Thank you.

 

JOY TO THE WORLD!! What should plop through the letter box this am but a large envelop full of microfische printouts!! Am very excited as it means I don't have to go to court for these! Should I still send the Information Commissioner complaint now I have them (I have yet to check they are complete, mind you!) or is it no longer relevant...I feel I there should be some way of letting them know that ShAbbey took approx six months to send them?

 

I am off to check they have sent them all, check that the statements I originally received are complete and then to tackle the spreadsheet....lets hope the information for the other account I am persuing with them comes through soon.

[brechiner]

JOY TO THE WORLD!! What should plop through the letter box this am but a large envelop full of microfische printouts!! Am very excited as it means I don't have to go to court for these! Should I still send the Information Commissioner complaint now I have them (I have yet to check they are complete, mind you!) or is it no longer relevant...I feel I there should be some way of letting them know that ShAbbey took approx six months to send them?

 

I am off to check they have sent them all, check that the statements I originally received are complete and then to tackle the spreadsheet....lets hope the information for the other account I am persuing with them comes through soon.

 

You and everyone else caught up in this thread MUST COMPLAIN. It is a disgrace

[Glenn UK]

One of the things that has come out of my discussions with the ICO is that they generally don't understand how the abbey treat their customers how make these requests.

 

If we don't complain when they fail to comply the ICO only has Ab beys word for for how they behave.

 

I would always urge people who don't get their data within 40 days to complain to the ICO and possibly take the bank to court too.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

[MFaulkner]

JOY TO THE WORLD!! What should plop through the letter box this am but a large envelop full of microfische printouts!! Am very excited as it means I don't have to go to court for these! Should I still send the Information Commissioner complaint now I have them (I have yet to check they are complete, mind you!) or is it no longer relevant...I feel I there should be some way of letting them know that ShAbbey took approx six months to send them?

 

I am off to check they have sent them all, check that the statements I originally received are complete and then to tackle the spreadsheet....lets hope the information for the other account I am persuing with them comes through soon.

 

my joy was short lived! They have missed off the first month and a half's worht of statments and they have not included the balance on the print out. I would not have realised this but they sent me a random statment back in the summer which showed the complete printout which included the balance! It is not such a problem as I am not planning to claim for the interest on the overdraft bit as a) I don't really get it and b) from what I understand, it wouldn't be worth it for me as the interest charges were very small each month...I know it is the principle that is the point, but I know my limitations and am trying to keep my confusion levels to the bear minimum!

[MFaulkner]

One of the things that has come out of my discussions with the Information Commissioners Office is that they generally don't understand how the abbey treat their customers how make these requests.

 

If we don't complain when they fail to comply the Information Commissioners Office only has Ab beys word for for how they behave.

 

Glenn

 

Going back to this. Although I have now got the information I require, I am still going to send in my complaint to the Information Commissioners Office, so my original question regarding this (see below) is still active! Any suggestions?

 

Originally Posted by MFaulkner

I am just filling out my Information Commissioner complaint form and was wondering if there is any specific text to include in section 6 - Details of the problem? I was just going to say that I had requested the statements under the Data Protection Act and that they had sent incomplete information (some statements and the microfische letter fobbing me off) and give them the dates of the letters sent and received. Is that enough or should I add anything else? Thank you.

[GaryH]

Here's what I put for my complaint against HSBC. It should be used as more of a guide rather than a template though -

 

 

Data Protection Act 1998

Complaint form

 

 

 

 

6. Details of the problem

 

 

I issued a Data Protection Act 1998 ‘Subject Access Request’ (S.A.R.) to HSBC Bank PLC, on 30th June 2006. The request concerned data relating to an account held with the bank between 2000 and 2002.

The S.A.R. was hand delivered by myself at my local HSBC branch, Swindon, and was submitted pursuant to section 7 (2) (a) and (b) of the Data Protection Act 1998. A copy of the S.A.R. was produced, then stamped and signed by a HSBC cashier, as proof of receipt. A receipt was also provided for the £10 statutory maximum fee.

 

No acknowledgement of my S.A.R. was ever received, so a reminder was sent addressed to Mr. Alan Pretty, Senior Service Quality Officer, on 6th August 2006. Similarly, no acknowledgement of this reminder was received either.

 

The 40 days allowed for compliance expired on 11th August 2006. As the information I had requested had not been furnished by this date, nor had my request been acknowledged, I believe HSBC are now in breach of Section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

A ‘Letter before action’ was hand delivered to my local branch, Swindon, on 18th August 2006, which was copied and signed for by a HSBC cashier. I also forwarded a copy of this Letter before action to Alan Pretty, Mike Bowden and David Lewis. These are all senior members of HSBC customer service staff, who are each based at different HSBC sites around the country. No acknowledgement of this letter before action, or indeed any of my letters, has ever been received.

 

I have also tried to contact HSBC by telephone with regards to this matter by contacting their head office complaints department based in Hamilton, Scotland, but was told no information could be provided over the telephone as my account was no longer active and I could not remember my telephone banking security number.

 

If HSBC are indeed found to be in breach of the Data Protection Act 1998, I respectfully request that the Office of the Information Commissioner takes the appropriate action to oblige HSBC to comply with my Subject Access Request, at its earliest possible convenience.

 

Furthermore, it has come to my attention that HSBC bank PLC have been in breach of the Data Protection Act 1998 several times before in similar or identical circumstances to those as described above. In light of this, in my view, these repeated breaches are deliberate and premeditated attempts to avoid Data Protection Act compliance. Therefore, I would respectfully request that HSBC is reprimanded as to its future conduct with regards to Data Protection Act compliance.

 

 

Signed:

 

Date:

[MFaulkner]

Here's what I put for my complaint against HSBC. It should be used as more of a guide rather than a template though -

 

Thank you for that! Did you get any response from the Information Commissioner and, subsequently, HSBC?

[GaryH]

Yes, although they do have quite a backlog - I waited quite a number of weeks before they acted on my complaint. It may be different with Abbey though as there are so many other identical complaints against them.

 

I got the statements ages ago now and have since had the claim settled. Heres the thread if your interested - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/25932-garyh-hsbc-including-contractual.html

[masally]

i have just recd my statements from abbey with the first 6 months missing of my bank history, i am pretty sure i did not have bank charges in the early days of my account history so want to go ahead with requesting my bank charge back. would that be ok i have read all there is to read and feel i should now go ahead and sent the template letter i have from the libary to abbey.

[Guest peed orf]

Hi all, I've had a flick throught this thread but can't find what I'm looking for!

I sent a SAR to Abbey for a joint account that was closed in 1999. I've received a reply saying......

"Abbey are only legally obliged to provide transation data for the last six years. Anything in excess of this period has been destroyed."

How likely is this to be correct? And also, whats my next move?

Thanks in advance.

[Glenn UK]

Hi all, I've had a flick throught this thread but can't find what I'm looking for!

I sent a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to Abbey for a joint account that was closed in 1999. I've received a reply saying......

"Abbey are only legally obliged to provide transation data for the last six years. Anything in excess of this period has been destroyed."

How likely is this to be correct? And also, whats my next move?

Thanks in advance.

 

Its my view this is exteremley unlikley for a couple of reasons.

 

1st is the method of storage, microfiche is not easy to amend once its produced and the original mateiral has been destroyed.

 

2nd is the fact that we know from a CAG memeber that Abbey have dat going back to somewhere in the region of 1926 in their archives.

 

3rd there is no statutory maximum period which they can hold data for as far as i am aware. Additionally the minimum time for data retention is difficult to pin down. many will quote 6 years based on the IR requirements, when i spoke to the IR they couldnt point me to a bit of legislation that quotes 6 years. Much of the legislation relevant to the retention of data doesnt seem to give specific retention periods either max or min, the DPA doesnt as far as I am aware.

 

Historically many banks and organisations have said this kind of thing but upon being pressed, have found some data they said they never had. In my case the Co-op said exactly the same and then produced data more than 9 years old.

 

GE capital have been telling customers they are not allowed to keep data more than five years. I have sent a complaint to the ICO who are investigating this issue.

 

So its possible but extremely unlikley imho I wold write back telling them there is no statutory max or mim retention periods specified in any legisaltion you are aware of, if they know then perhpas they could quote the relevant clauses and sections and the title of the Act.

 

Failure to prpovide your data upon the receipt of your Subject Access Reqeust in the standard form with the reqwuired fee is an offence under the DPA. If they continue to fail to provide your data then you will file a claim in the small claims court asking for an order forcing them to comply.

 

I would then advise them they have xx days to comply.

 

Once the 40 days expires, send them the LBA giving them another 7 days, then file at court.

 

If you get to the stage for filing at court check out Glenn Vs Co-op for particualrs of claim.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[unklemerv]

Hi,

I have recently got a reply from the ICO as I have had no comeback from the Abbey. I'm glad the ICO are against the microfiche system. Has anyone had experience of this, if so what has been the outcome?

 

Cheers guys.

 

Merv.

[isidore]

Its my view this is exteremley unlikley for a couple of reasons.

 

I can imagine for Audit purposes would be another reason.

 

I used to work for Halifax Mortgage Services and they had 15 years worth of data - mortgages admittedly, but I'd have thought other parts of the company would be the same. Was more than 5 years ago so this may have changed.

 

I now work for another financial company and don't know how far back their historicised accounts go but I shall try to find out. Can't imagine that many of the financial companies would have very different rules with regards to historicised accounts as if I'm right, audit rules are through an external body?

 

Would be interesting to see how many banks we could find this information on I think!

[Alan Booker]

Sent the following letter:

With reference to your letter of the 15th August in which you advised me that microfiched archives are not covered by the Data Protection Act and therefore not subject to the 40 day ruling.

I am sure you are aware that the Information Commissioner recently found against Abbey on microfiche disclosure and that these archives are indeed subject to the 40 day ruling. I would therefore, be grateful if you could expedite delivery of the requested data to me at the above address.

Alternatively, it can be e-mailed to [email protected].

 

Three weeks later recieved my data. A week later, recieved it again!

[Guest peed orf]

Hi Alan, my letter didn't say anything about microfiched, it just said..all info destroyed after 6 years.