Who's fault is it?

[diodorus]

Hello!

 

I was wodnering if anyone has an opinion about this.

 

I was driving (on a motorbike) on a two way-road: on each side of the road there is a bus lane and a (single) car lane. Bus and cars were still or moving very slowly (due to busy traffic). I was overtaking the cars (from the right, within the lane) when suddenly one of the cars turns right and hits me. In that point there is no side street the car could have turned into, so it was obvious to me that the car was trying a u-turn. however he didn't admit that and said he came on the right because the bus was pushing him on the right. He left without leaving details, but I took the car number. My insurance company tracked him but he is not commenting or admitting anything.

 

Whose fault is it? What will the insurance company negotiations most likely end like?

 

Thanks,

diodo

Edited November 25, 2009 by diodorus

[Mossycat]

From your initial description I'd say the other driver was responsible, but before we can suggest what might ensue can you answer the following

 

When you say he hit you, do you mean........

 

A) He pulled out into your path and the front of your motorcycle went into him

 

OR

 

B) He pulled out and the front of his car collided with the side of your bike

 

OR

 

C) Neither of those, in which case please explain.

 

Mossy

[diodorus]

Mossy, thanks for the reply.

 

He pulled out and the front of his car collided the with left side of my bike, on the metal part covering the rear wheel (that's where the dent/bump that he caused is located)...

 

What would you say?

Edited November 25, 2009 by diodorus

[Mossycat]

Mossy, thanks for the reply.

 

He pulled out and the front of his car collided the with left side of my bike, on the metal part covering the rear wheel (that's where the dent/bump that he caused is located)...

 

What would you say?

 

OK without a sketch I am guessing the following

 

You and the car driver were both initially travelling in the same direction (hence why it's the left side of your bike that was damaged and not the right). For it to be your rear wheel cover that was damaged you must have been almost in front of him at the time of impact. You mentioned a bus lane, but didn't say if it was in force. I'm guessing he wasn't in the bus lane though, and he was in the one single lane for regular traffic and you were overtaking the line of stationary/ slow moving traffic.

 

If the above is correct then most if not all of the liability rests with the car driver, if it was safe to overtake (if that's indeed what you were doing and by safe I mean no oncoming traffic), then because there was no turning where he turned then you couldn't have reasonably expected a car to pull out, furthermore you were positioned in front of the driver of the car at the moment of impact, so clearly he has pulled out without looking.

 

In an ideal world you would get 100% of any claim, however, if and I say if he argues then you might end up with an 80/20 split in your favour, but he would have to have a bloody good argument.

 

Hope that helps

 

Mossy

[Tom87]

An important thing not already mentioned: was he indicating?

 

If he WAS indicating to the right, you should have stayed and waited for him to move. It wouldn't matter if it appeared to you that there was nothing to turn right into. He could have been overtaking a cyclist or avoiding some other obstruction on the left-hand side of the road. Even though he obviously wasn't looking in his mirrors, you shouldn't overtake a car that's indicating right.

 

But if he WASN'T indicating, it surely seems 100% the other person's fault. Good luck.

[diodorus]

ok, thank you very much for the info!

Edited November 25, 2009 by diodorus

[MBNASlayer(1)]

Not sure I agree. If you were overtaking then it is your responsibility to ensure it was safe to do so.

 

Harsh I know but thats the way it works.

[Mossycat]

Not sure I agree. If you were overtaking then it is your responsibility to ensure it was safe to do so.

 

Harsh I know but thats the way it works.

 

Whilst I agree the OP had a responsibility to ensure it was safe to overtake, if he was overtaking a line of stationary/slow moving cars he could hardly be reasonably expected to anticipate a car pulling out when there wasn't a turning, and, if as the OP suggests the TP was trying to effect a 3 point turn to avoid the traffic then it would have been a steep pull out.

 

I'd still side with the OP

 

Mossy

[Tom87]

Not sure I agree. If you were overtaking then it is your responsibility to ensure it was safe to do so.

 

Harsh I know but thats the way it works.

 

When examining the stationary traffic and deciding to overtake, it probably was safe to do so. The car driver pulling out at the last minute, with apparently no warning and failing to look in his mirrors, was what made it unsafe. I repeat that if the car was indicating, it is the OP's fault, but if the car was not indicating AND its body language/positioning on the road gave no signal of it being about to veer to the right, it is the car driver's fault.

 

It is still important to know from the OP whether or not the car was indicating because that pretty much says for itself which of you is at fault.

[diodorus]

I do not remember seeing the indicating lights, so I'd think he wasn't indicating, but I cannot say "I am sure he didn't".

[Mossycat]

Just because a driver indicates an intention to pull out DOES NOT give him right of way.

 

Even if the driver could prove he was indicating it still does not diminish his liability totally, and would at best get an 80/20 split in favour of the OP.

 

Mossy

[sailor sam]

Hi.

 

I havn't seen any mention of reporting the TP for not exchanging details.

This is a legal requirement and as such should of been done within 24 hours.

[diodorus]

I went to a police station to report it straight after he left. They gave me some forms which I filled and brought back the mornign after...

[sailor sam]

I went to a police station to report it straight after he left. They gave me some forms which I filled and brought back the mornign after...

 

Good... but is the TP didn't report it as well, he has commited an offence.

[diodorus]

I doubt he did, but how can I check? And how would that "help" me?

[sailor sam]

I doubt he did, but how can I check? And how would that "help" me?

 

Well as you got his number then no doubt the police will trace him and will contact you with the veiw of charging him with 'failing to stop and exchange details after an accident'. This will asist you insurance claim because his version of events will be less credible. My concern is that the reason he drove off is that he may not be insured and although he will no doubt be prosecuted for this also, it may mean your insueres taking legal action to recover your losses.

 

Just one final thing; you say in your OP that the traffic was moving slowly which suggests to me that the driver of the car behind must of witnessed the incident and would of no doubt got out to assist.... did he? I ask this because this will cement what Mossy decsribes as the likely scenario meaning that the TP turned without looking thus putting him as fault. However, if you were traveling at some speed while overtaking then this may compicate matters. I am assuming you were'nt as you would of no doubt have sustained serious injury.

[diodorus]

I wasn't driving fast. He did stop, but did not give me all his details when I asked for them: he said his name once, and when I asked to spell it, he didn't and left. It was a company car of an airline company. The car is insured.

 

People stopped and checked if I was alright, but at that time I did not think of taking any witness details.

[Mossycat]

I wasn't driving fast. He did stop, but did not give me all his details when I asked for them: he said his name once, and when I asked to spell it, he didn't and left. It was a company car of an airline company. The car is insured.

 

People stopped and checked if I was alright, but at that time I did not think of taking any witness details.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about that, it will be harder for him to dispute (and maintain the dispute of) liability than it will be for you.

 

Mossy

[sailor sam]

I wasn't driving fast. He did stop, but did not give me all his details when I asked for them: he said his name once, and when I asked to spell it, he didn't and left. It was a company car of an airline company. The car is insured.

 

People stopped and checked if I was alright, but at that time I did not think of taking any witness details.

 

He may have stopped but he has still commited the offence of not exchanging details unless he reports the accident within 24hrs to the police. The fact that it is a company car works in your favour because they are more likely to settle quickly. If however you did need witnesess (its understandable you didn't obtain details at the time due to the stress you must of been under), you could put an appeal in the local rag.

[diodorus]

FYI, this is how it ended: the driver never commented/answered questions from his insurance company, which was then "forced" to pay the repairs (and hire of a temp scooter) for me. However, because he did not admit anything, the fault was not assigned to him (nor anyone else). This was an issue when I had to renew my insurance, but was solved without "malus" on my side.

 

After I reported the accident to the police, I got a letter (few weeks later) informing that they were not going to investigate/pursue the case...

[Tom87]

That's an interesting conclusion, especially the bit where he wasn't assigned blame just because he didn't admit to it! There are accidents every day where the driver at fault refuses to accept blame but still get assigned it by the insurance as a fault claim.

[sailor sam]

FYI, this is how it ended: the driver never commented/answered questions from his insurance company, which was then "forced" to pay the repairs (and hire of a temp scooter) for me. However, because he did not admit anything, the fault was not assigned to him (nor anyone else). This was an issue when I had to renew my insurance, but was solved without "malus" on my side.

 

After I reported the accident to the police, I got a letter (few weeks later) informing that they were not going to investigate/pursue the case...

 

Thanks for letting us know. Strange that dispite it being a clear offence that the TP comitted, the police chose not to persue it. I would keep the letter... just in case.

 

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[Mwynci]

Good result.