Natwest Have lost my loan agreement and offerring to wipe all interest and let me pay when I want, advise for next steps

[Mabes]

Hello All,

 

this is my first thread since joining the CAG, so please accept my apologies if it is in the wrong place.

 

Basically 2 years ago, following a financial review at Natwest (upon thier request) my wife and I took out a 20k personal loan over 5 years. At the time, we never reiceved our copy of the agreement. To cut a long story short 3 months ago I received my first loan statement, which showed all our payments ( we have not missed 1 payment in 2 years) and it also showed that the loan is due to run for 7 and not 5 years as was agreed.

 

I have raised this complaint with Natwest, who after 3 months of searching cannot find a copy of my loan agreement. I have requested the section 77/78 information be sent and Natwest have had this request for 6 working days as of today.

 

This morning the bank have called me up and have offered to remove the interest on the remaining balance (setting it to 0%) and have said that It is up to us to decide the new length of term. This is a massive turn around since the last letter I had from the bank, which basically told me tough, the loan is over 7 years and they will happily adjusst the term, but my repayments will increase to over £900 pcm which is way too much for me make.

 

From what I can understand and from the dicussisons I have had with companies such as Karobo Claims...I have an alimighty case in which the bank will have to wipe the loan, as this can be taken to court.

 

I am awaiting the letter from the bank that confirms our conversation of today ( i.e the removal of all interest and the new term). I would like to reject this offer and persue taking them to court to get the whole loan wipped..as from what I understand this is a concrete case.

 

I hope that somebody out there can advise, what sort of a position I really am in, and then how I could pursue things from here on in..

 

Thank you all for taking the time to read this quite long thread.

 

All the Best

Stu

[alfwithhair]

Hello and welcome to CAG

It is not quite so cut and dried as you think.

 

What the bank is saying is they cannot find your signed agreement, so this would prevent them from enforcing it through the courts, hence them making you such a generous offer of re-payment, but I would not beleive anything they say on the phone, so wait till they confirm it in writing.

 

However this does not mean the debt is wiped, all it means is that it cannot be enforced at law, the debt would still exist and be payable, wether you pay it is your choice, but if you don't there is likely to be adverse entries placed on your credit files for 6 years, which may preclude you from obtaining credit in the future.

 

If you have sent a official CCA request with the satutory fee, then I would wait the 12+2 days to see if you receive anything before doing anything else.

[postggj]

If You Decide To Play Ball With The Bank

 

Let It Be On Condition You Have A Clean Credit File Ref Nat West

 

Carrot And Stick On This One

[alfwithhair]

If you can get the bank to confirm in writing that they do not hold a signed agreement then you would be in a much better position to negotiate. This may transpire from your CCA request or it may not. It is funny how banks claim to be unable to locate something, but then 6 months down the line it suddenly appears as if by magic. Once you have this, I would say you have 3 options

 

1/ You could dispute the account and pay them nothing, as it would be unenforceable, but bare in mind this could have serious concequences on your credit file.

 

2/ Agree to the banks offer of 0%, but you can rest assure they will what you to sign a new agreement and will make sure they don't loose this one. To get the balance of the original loan back is far better to the bank than getting nothing back, hence the offer.

 

3/ Offer them a full & final settlement of say 15-20% of the outstanding balance on the condition they do not enter any adverse data on your credit file. This whould then be the end of it and should they suddenly find the agreement at a later date, it would be of no use as the account is settled, finished.

 

But you do have to ensure any offer of acceptance is in writing, never trust anything they say on the phone.

[Mabes]

Hello All,

Thanks for the quick replies.

I guess this all depends on what comes back from the CCA, however as with most people in debt, I would like to try and push for a full and total write off, of the debt.

 

Can you advise how I should go about this..or would I need to employ the services of somebody like Kerobo Claims ? Am I going to be fighting a loosing battle, if I try to get a court ruling to wipe the debt?

 

I mean, the bank have already offered me the 0% intrest repayment schedule, so they are already on the back foot as far as I can understand this. If I do take them to court it will cost them more than just wiping the debt clean... unless I am totally mis-lead lol, which isnt hard to do..

 

Thanks again

[breeze1996]

i think I would just accept the 0 % and pay for the next 3 years, too take it to court to get it written off just seems like looking a gift horse in the mouth.

 

You could end up having to pay more not less.

[Mabes]

Thanks Breeze1996.

 

I did originally think the same about looking the gift horse in the mouth.

 

Certainly a lot to consider.... I still cannot let it rest though, that I should push this issue into the courts for a full and total wipe out..

 

At what point does this loan agreement become in dispute? Is it correct that while this is in dispute, I do not need to make my repayments and the bank cannot adversly affect my credit score, until the time the dispute is over?

 

Thanks again

[breeze1996]

i was thinking more along the lines that the bank think your good for a loan of £20,000 and have agreed they made a mistake.

 

Right now it won't affect you but what if in 4 years time once this is paid you want more, they will agree and lend it you, but if your credit score shows you took them to court, you may find the Mortgage you need for that new house you want is very hard to find.

 

I know £12,000 is £12,000 but you could lose and find they want to take the house you have now...

[alfwithhair]

Thanks Breeze1996.

 

I did originally think the same about looking the gift horse in the mouth.

 

Certainly a lot to consider.... I still cannot let it rest though, that I should push this issue into the courts for a full and total wipe out..

 

At what point does this loan agreement become in dispute? Is it correct that while this is in dispute, I do not need to make my repayments and the bank cannot adversly affect my credit score, until the time the dispute is over?

 

Thanks again

 

The account goes into official dispute 12+2 day after your CCA request if the bank does not comply fully with your request. You can then legally stop making payments until such time as the request is fulfilled. YOU MUST inform the bank that the account is disputed and on what grounds. They are not supposed to collect on, pass on, sell, or mark your credit file whilst the account is disputed, but unfortunately they DO!

 

You do not need the services of anybody in order to seek a full & final, you just write to them with your offer, they accept it or they don't, so start low, you can always increase your offer. Remember to point out that the account is unenforceable as there is no agreement, which you confimed in writing blah blah blah on what ever date they confirm it. DO NOT rely on what was said on the phone they will deny it was ever said.

 

But I would do nothing until you get a reply to your request, they may even find it, stranger things have happened.

 

Just post back on here the details and if possible scans (minus personal details) of what the bank sent.

 

Alf

[Mabes]

Thanks again Breeze1996

 

I didnt realise it would be on my credit score that I took them to court..I guess I need to do some more reading on this lol.

 

I was under the impression if this went to court and I won, the bank has to update my credit file that this was paid in full.... There is me thinking I had this issue all sewn up...how wrong I am thanks again for the advise.

[Mabes]

Hello Alf,

 

I will definately do that sir, thanks for your advise. I know the bank are working on my CCA request as they told me this morning they have received my request..they actually received it on Monday 16th Novermeber, so I am expecting it any time soon..

 

Thanks for all your help..

 

Stu

[cerberusalert]

Yours is the second case today of this happening, see; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/222116-natwest-iressponsible-lending-8.html#post2595334

[obewan]

If you can afford to make the regular payments whilst action is being taken against Nat West for a complete write off, your credit file should still be in good standing.

 

Then if Nat West capitulate to the action, you can make it a condition of the capitulation that your creedit file is wiped clean. It is MOST unlikely Nat West would go to trial without an original agreement as costs would outweigh any return IMO.

[Mabes]

Hello All,

 

Again, thanks for your all your information folks, I really appreciate it.

I am still making the payments for now. Today I am expecting to receive the offer in writing that Natwest made to me yesterday regarding the 0% interest repayment offer. I will post this here, once I get my gubby hands on it.

Do I need to await the banks final response before taking any further action?

Again thanks for all the help and advise thus far.

[Mabes]

Here is the letter I received from Natwest today, confirming the offer they made me earlier this week.

 

I have today called them and rejected this offer, as generous as it is. My intention at this point is to take this matter to court for a total wipe out of this debt.

 

Natwest have transferred my complaint with my counter offer of a total wipe off, to a specialist unit in Edinburgh. The customer care team could not indicate what will happen, except I should recieve a letter from Edinburgh department within 10 days.

Edited January 11, 2010 by Mabes
Attachment no longer required

[Mabes]

After reading a bit more about similar cases on here, I might be regreting simply rejecting this offer and might be a bit too eager with the court action perhaps.. thats me down to the tee.....open mouth, insert foot..

 

Am waiting to see what bank does next and am all of sudden a little nervous...

[alfwithhair]

As I said previously, they will get you to sign a new loan agreement, as they can't find the current one. But they will make sure they don't lose this one.

It is a good offer, but they are only doing it to get some form of repayment back as without locating the current agreement they are stuffed with regards to enforcing it.

Wait and see what the have to say

[Mabes]

Thanks Alf. Watch this space

[Beck1968]

Thanks again Breeze1996

 

I didnt realise it would be on my credit score that I took them to court..I guess I need to do some more reading on this lol.

 

I was under the impression if this went to court and I won, the bank has to update my credit file that this was paid in full.... There is me thinking I had this issue all sewn up...how wrong I am thanks again for the advise.

 

 

 

Whoooa......."I didnt realise it would be on my credit score that I took them to court"

 

 

IF the above is true........would that not be adverse

[Mabes]

An update.... today is 11 working days since Natwest received my request for the section 77 CCA regarding my loan agreement. Natwest are sending me a letter in response to this, that they cannot find the document in question.

 

So to sumarise. I took out a 5 year loan in branch and didnt get given my copy of the loan agreement. We reported this to the branch who told us to come in and pick it up. We went back to the branch and they couldnt find the documents and said they would post them. We forgot all about this and now, two years down the line I see from my first ever loan statement, that the bank have set me up for a 7 year loan with much more interest to pay. I have contested this and am now at the point where natwest have officially (I hope to receive this in writing tomorrow) confirmed they do not have my loan documents. I have so far not missed any payments and am considering my next steps....? I will post a copy of the confirmation as soon as I get it...

 

So far, the way I still understand things is that I am in a good position to contest this as a)Fraud because we signed 5 years not 7 and b)unenforceable loan as no documents can be produced to proove otherwise.

 

Should I actually contact the police as natwest have been very sneeky..?

[DuffNCustard]

Gnat West haven't committed a criminal offence unless you are alleging fraud - even then the FSA are the first port of call.

 

You have made 20 payments on the loan - this is acknowledgement that you owe them the money or why would you have paid it! On what grounds are you hoping that the court will wipe out the debt - merely because they cannot produce the CCA? I don't think you've got a chance - you've already admitted the debt so really you are merely slicing and dicing the terms!

 

In theory as the account is in dispute due to their failure to produce the agreement they should not be able to pursue it through a court, but there are cases where creditors do pursue the debt without a CCA and win. Arguably they shouldn't but ther you have it - you'd need a good lawyer or the ability to defend your case yourself.

 

take their offer - if its still open, they've made a genuine mistake. Your refusal and anticipation of the court wiping out the debt could be viewed as opportunistic.

[Mabes]

Thanks for your advice duffncustard

 

Ive spoken to the FSA, who advised I need to contact either the OFT or the Financial Obudsman as they do not deal with Consumer Credit Agreements.

[Mabes]

Despite the promise from the bank that they have posted a reply, I have still not received my documents from my CCA request. Today is 12 working + 2 days. Also I have not had as yet any communication from the Edinburgh office, as promised I would.

Its clear the bank are stalling. Will update this thread with the documents as I get them.

[Mabes]

I am now in receipt of the reply from the bank regarding my request for the CCA.

 

This letter confirms that my documents have become lost. This also shows that I took out loan protection and then cancelled it. This is a lie as I never took out any protection. Also the figures they have quoted on the letter as being a statement of my account, are totally wrong.

 

Natwest have made a big mess up here and I really am now concerned as this looks to be more fraudulent than I initially realised. In the statement of account it also confirms that we have paid back 18k.

 

I will scan and upload this document tomorrow from work, as my scanner has just packed up working.

 

Wondering what I should do next. I am still waiting for the banks final response from some office in Edinburgh. I have been promised an answer and the 10 working days for this answer, are alomst up.

 

Does anybody have any contact details for this office in Scotland?

 

Many Thanks again for all that read this and offer any advise or guidance.

 

My mind is working overtime now, wondering how many other people Natwest has tried to shaft in this way ?!?!?

[cerberusalert]

Well the formula is simple, no CCA = no enforceable debt.

 

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