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    • Thanks for getting the signage posted up so quickly. The sign on entry should explain their T&Cs. As they don't it means that  what they have given you is  an offer to treat, not a contract. For there to be a contract they would have had to put their offer at the entrance.  You cannot put a notice saying that their T&Cs are inside the car park and expect motorists to be subject to those T&Cs when they are unaware what the terms are.. They have to be able to read them and understand them before they can accept them. On top of that the sign at the entrance is for Parking Control Solutions while the signs inside are from HX Management-a completely different animal. To strengthen your case for not paying them is the fact that their PCN is not compliant.  Under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 there are certain wordings in  the NTK  that by Law must comply with the Act. They don't  have to quote that part of the Act in their PCN but the relevant wording has to be included. PoFA Schedule 4 paragraph 9 [2]   the notice must  [f]   warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given— (i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and (ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;   Your  NTK does not include  [if all the applicable conditions  under the Schedule have been met ]thus rendering the NTK non compliant.  
    • I agree its about time but why has it taken for the National Crime Agency to flag this up for then to take action and not Ofcom.   Yet again a Government Agency that is meant to deal with this hasn't Ofcom but flagged by another Agency NCA.   If the telephone companies have this facility in place already to do this then why hasn't Ofcom been pushing them to stop all these scam calls and giving them massive fines for not doing so.    
    • Hi   Send this to them:   Dear Sir/Madam   Formal Complaint   Reference:            (insert their complaint reference number here)   Thank you for your response letter dated XX/XX/2021 which I received by email on XX/XX/2021 that contained your Original Email sent that showed due to your Maladministration that you had sent the Original Email containing my Personal Data to an incorrect email address due to spelling errors in the email address.   a)      Due to this Maladministration of this email being sent to the incorrect email address this email contained my Personal Data which is a Data Protection Breach therefore I require clarification from yourselves that this Breach has been reported to your Data Protection Officer and what action is being taken to ensure that my Personal Data contained in that Original Email has not been read by the recipient that you sent that email to with the incorrect email address.   As the email was sent by yourselves to my correct email address containing the original email showing the incorrect email address was due to spelling errors (maladministration) your IT Department will be able to obtain those emails sent.   If I do not get a satisfactory response that this has been dealt with by your Data Protection Officer, I will report this Data Breach to the Information Commissioners Office (ICO) https://ico.org.uk/make-a-complaint/   b)      Due to this Maladministration I failed to receive your Stage 1 complaint response within the allocated time limit for a Stage 1 response therefore this complaint should be dealt with as a Stage 2 Complaint and if you refuse to treat this as a Stage 2 Complaint, I require Full Clarification for your refusal.   I was placed in this Tenancy via the Rough Sleepers Initiative and I find your response about damaged/destroyed items that you would not be able to look into this as this happened 2 years ago but all tenants regardless of private or social housing are responsible for arranging their own contents insurance totally unacceptable as again, I was never notified nor informed of this requirement on taking up this tenancy.   I require clarification from yourself that when a New Tenant takes up a Tenancy Agreement with yourselves why are the not informed of this requirement of Contents Insurance which you should be duty bound to inform all tenants on taking up a tenancy agreement if such a requirement and it should also be noted within that tenants Housing File which you have full access to as dealing with complaint so I require clarification as well if this is noted in my Housing File.   You state multiple properties throughout the area were affected by sewage flood on the same day and the issue will have stemmed from the mains which is not your responsibility.   a)      You have failed to take into that the above statement from yourself blaming the Mains is without any actual evidence from yourselves to back up this claim therefore I require clarification as to what actual evidence you have and to be provided with copies.   b)      You also failed to take into account that in my initial complaint letter that on 12th July 2021 basement flats 1 & 2 were flooded by sewage exacerbated by blockage in the property’s drainage. The blockage has been confirmed by two contractors after the flooding including CCR who were subcontracted by Pyramid Plus that it was the properties drainage that was blocked. Also, while I was decanted from this property, I was contacted by CCR who confirmed that the drain was blocked but they could not access manhole as it was inaccessible as it is located in a utility cupboard underneath carpet, floorboards so how could this be the Main and not your responsibility when it is within the properties boundaries.   Your response about how complaints have been made by residents in relation to this issue is that your system does not allow you to find that information is completely unacceptable as your Housing Association should be able to produce these as part of ongoing repairs and maintenance/procurement processes to present these to your Board for there yearly Budget meeting if not why not.   Then you state you are under no obligation to share that information; therefore, your organisation is not being Open and Accountable to your Service Users and under which Article of the General Data Protection Act (GDPR) are you using for this refusal.   You have also failed to mention that I can make that above request under the Freedom of Information Act (FOI) and what is your process for such a request again not being Open and Accountable.   I await your response.
    • RE: EC261 Compensation   It's normal they won't have asked you to contact them . Your initial rescheduling was obviously done by a bot - and there was no human to notice the mistake, as far as the bot knew your scheduling was perfectly normal so there was no need to ask you to contact them.   As long as that was done 2 weeks in advance the carrier's liability to notify you is fulfilled.   (You could have contacted them there and pointed out that the new schedule was impossible. Unfortunately you didn't. Claiming you didn't notice is not likely to work in your favor)   The bot who sent you the 24h confirmation didn't notice the mistake either, obviously.   At some point a human or another bot finally identified the problem and that's when they called you. As far as they are concerned neither you nor them had noticed the scheduling mistake and they took it on them to notify you so you don't have a bad surprise when you try and check in.   However as far as I know, neither flight was delayed or cancelled. You could have taken both flights, if you had the power to be in two places at the same time.   So I don't think there is any scope to claim for EC261. But claim forms are free so feel free to try.     Then, you can certainly make an old fashioned claim (directly to BA)   What could perhaps play in your favor:   It's the carrier's responsibility to ensure that they don't sell you a ticket where the flyer cannot meet the minimum connection time or MCT.   This situation mostly applies to situations where the flyer doesn't know and gets caught. For example say you connect at LHR and you are given 35 minutes to connect. This may look just fine to an unsuspecting tourist, but in reality there is practically zero chance to make the connection, therefore the airline is liable here for selling you this ticket resulting in you missing your connection   In your case though it could be argued that even an unsuspecting tourist should be able to tell that it is not possible for them to depart 5 minutes prior to disembarking and therefore that you should have checked your notification more carefully.   The fact that the bot allowed such a glaring mistake to happen is certainly an argument in your favour shall you decide to make a complaint.     What doesn't play in your favor:   The airline obviously did their best to get you to your destination as soon as they noticed their mistake. They offered you more than one alternative (the first alternative would have got you in time at your destination, but you declined) and you then accepted another alternative, and fully travelled the ticket. That is a very strong position for them.     What did you lose and what do you intend to claim for?   You took the overnight connection so obviously you had to stay at an airport hotel. Is that correct? Did you keep the receipt for your hotel and meals?   You certainly should have asked them on the phone when negotiating your re-route that they provide a hotel. Within 20hrs of the flight it's something they would most probably not have denied to you (but airlines will generally avoid offering off the bat. Why lose money when a customer is just going to roll with it and pay for their own stay anyway, right?). After the fact it's going to be a lot more difficult to claim.   I do certainly think it would be reasonable to try and write them a polite but firm letter to claim for that. Not 700 euros, not damages and hardship and all that jazz, just the extra expense you incurred following a scheduling mistake that they made (that should have never happened) and that they didn't notice until way too late in the day , with your categorical inability to leave 3 hours earlier (you had very important business meetings or something critical, it certainly wasn't just convenience) and the extra costs incurred, and asking that they kindly provide compensation for the hotel and meals, which you feel it was their duty to offer you and you are politely disappointed that they didn't, and thafully you happen to have kept all the receipts. Put Alex Cruz on copy for good measure.   No guarantee but I feel it has a fair chance of success. Most probably you will be offered a heap of Avios instead of cash. It's then up for you to decide whether you want to accept that. Personally I wouldn't bother going further, but that's just me. See if anyone here disagrees, and do let us know what you decide and keep in touch with how it went.            
    • Well done El21.   You put a lot of time and research into that WS which paid off.   Funny that the Judge only mentioned that the NTK was  not compliant with regard to the time period but not query that you had not breached their T&Cs so never liable for a PCN in the first place.   Pity that since had the Judge thrown out the case you would have a great chance of claiming several pounds from them through a breach of GDPR.   I have used that time period argument before as the reason for the NTK being non compliant and it hasn't been mentioned by the Judge  so you have to put everything in to your WS since the Judge only has to pick one of the  points in your favour to throw out the case. 
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Financial ombudsman comes under fire as insider reveals litany of bad practices


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Before giving specific advice can you give us an idea of how much is alleged to be outstanding, which bank it is or which debt collector it has been sold to, and if it is already on your credit reference file.

RMW

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I am sure that I have read on this site that OFT have stated that assuming a debt is correct simply because it exists is unfair It is in the debt industry forum ill see if i can find it

HTH (Hope This Helps) RDM2006

 

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. when i said i wanted my complaint looked at again the adjudicator rang me and stated that even if i went to the ombudsman things would not change as they had already discussed my complaint with them and the ombudsman was minded to reject my complaint. surely thats not right or legal that i have a right of appeal but its just a token. .

 

FOS dont have an independent appeals procedure. They work on the basis that all 166,000 decisions made by the service last year are correct. But they do maintain that passing a case upwards to an Ombudsman is the FOS 'appeals' process. If the Ombudsmen have pre-empted this and already made their mind up then that drives a coach and horses through the 'appeals' process.

 

I suggest you ask again for an Ombudsman who has not already seen any aspects of your case to review it. If FOS refuse to allow this, complain using the complaints procedure to the Head of Casework and if necessary Independent Assessor. This will be lengthy and (in my experience) won't get you very far, but its worth a try.

 

Whatever you do dont accept the decision unless you are happy with it. Once the decision is accepted that is the end of it ...The Ombudsman's decision is final...there is no appeal.

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Thanks rdm2006 I really appreciate your help.

 

I havent managed to find it but i know it does exist so you could try stating that oft have already stated that as FOS should know about that anyway, if they do come back to you asking where you got it from we can look again.

 

sorry

 

 

Auntie P - you can also ask for a judicial review but this has costs or risk of costs I believe

HTH (Hope This Helps) RDM2006

 

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Myself and my husband have had an complaint with the fos regarding blackhorse and today we had the outcome and they have fallen in favour of them seems from this thread thats no suprices.....

Here is a run down of our case,

Blackhorse wanted to reposses our house in 2006 and we counterclaimed against them regarding the PPI which took 2 years to get to court, 6 weeks before the court date we wrote to blackhorse head office in cardiff asking for a true copy of our orignal credit agreement which we recieved aweek before the court date and we noticed on the credit agreement that the lender had NOT signed the agreement only us the borrowers ,we were told by our solictor who was a no win no fee PPI solictor to bring it up in court,anyway the friday before the start of the court hearing (which was starting the following monday) we recieved the court bundle from blackhorse inhouse solictors SCM and we saw the credit agreement was then signed.

we brought it up in court that we had a copy of our true orignal credit agreement that we had requested from their head office only weeks before and that it was unsigned by them but the one in the court bundle from their inhouse solictors was signed ,the judge agreed to add it to the case but would be unable to us it as eviendance ,the barrister for blackhorse screamed and shouted that they were being ambushed.

anyway we lost the PPI case but the judge refused to allow blackhorse repossion of the house or for us to pay the £4,000 court fees that BH wanted us to pay with 28 days and referred us back to the district judge.

we contacted the financial ombudsman regarding the unsigned credit agreement and we also wrote many letters to blackhorse headoffice asking who had signed the agreement and when ect as it came to light in the court that the agreement was not signed on site any more or signed in front of the borrowers and that the agreement could not have been signed on the same day as we signed as it was not sent off to their edenburgh ofice until 10pm that evening.

Backhorse sent the same agreements to the fos the one unsigned and the other signed we know this as the fos phoned us to ask some questions and the guy at the fos said and that he thought it rather strange that the agreements where photo copys of each other and the same in every detail including a barcode on the side and that one was signed and one was`nt and that he said it was a very straight forward case and that he was passing it on to the adjudicator

anyway we went back to the district judge every couple of mts on the request of the judge to try and settle the case ,in july of this year blackhorse told the judge they had dropped the repossion order and just wanted payments ,but the judge refused to allow payments to them until the judge had seen what the FOS recommended.

The letter arrived today from the fos saing it is not in the remit of there service to make a finding on whether the credit agreement is enforceable and in their view it is a matter that should be decided by the court becuase they are not a court and don`t have the powers to find it unenforceable and that their view is if you borrowed the money you repay the debt.

they go on to say they recieved the 2 agreements plus the advance copy and that on the balance of probailites that the signed credit agreements are genuine copies of the original loan agreement and have original on them and that the first (advanced copy) is just a printed copy with the loan details and the third copy was signed by blackhorse.

but there is nothing said about the 2nd agreement that was unsigned.

they go on to say of course it is possible that a court which is not bound by section 228 of FSMA would reach a different view and would be able to consider legal arguments relating to the case.their decision is not binding if we do not accept it and their consideration of the matter will not prevent us from raising the argument in court.

i know we are due in court on the first avaliable date after the 15th nov this year as the judge had said when we were there last.

I just don`t know where to turn now.

CAN ANYONE ADVISE US WHAT TO DO NOW

Edited by sugg1
PUT IN WRONG PLACE INSTEAD OF STARTING NEW THREAD
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FOS are a complete waste of time from the consumer's standpoint and should be scrapped. The only advantage in submitting a claim to FOS is that it is supposed to cost the banks about £400 for each claim.

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

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yes after reading other threads regarding fos they are waste of time.

but still leaves the same problem some said .....Did you get the decision from the adjudicator at the FOS if so then tell them that you do not accept it and ask them to refer it to a omsbudman for the final decison.

 

but would`nt the omsbudman agree with the adjudicator.

also we have in the court bundle that the credit agreement was not sent to the headoffice till 10pm at night and their hrs of opening are 9am-6pm mon-friday so it would have been impossible to be signed by head office on the 31st january and if it had been signed on the 31st like BH say then how could a true copy of the credit agreement be available to us and the FOS with out them (blackhorse) not having signed it.

on their terms and conditions it says that unless signed by the lender the agreement is unenforceable.

the adjudicator also never mentions the unsigned agreement in deciding her desision

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The ombudsman can overturn a decision by an adjudicator, It is not final until the ombudsman gives a decision (unless you agree with the adjudicator) although I have yet to hear about an overturned case, but you know what they say nothing ventured nothing gained.

 

You are not bound by the decision of the ombudsman either so you can continue in court.

 

As for my personal opinion of FOS it needs scrapping and a new government run organisation set up but funded in a similar way but by doubling the £400 charge, this may act as a deterrant......

HTH (Hope This Helps) RDM2006

 

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As for my personal opinion of FOS it needs scrapping and a new government run organisation set up but funded in a similar way but by doubling the £400 charge, this may act as a deterrant......

 

 

Hear, Hear...

Complaint against Trader = Take it to Trading Standards

Complaint against business = Take it to Ombudsman

Complaint against Trading Standards or Ombudsman?....DOH...!

 

Absolutely, no adequate deterrent exists... Typical! The message to all of us consumers? If you want something doing... Do it yourself...:!:

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yes agree ,after months and months awaiting to hear from the fos all they have done is passed the buck back to the court what a waste of time they are and like you say there is no where to complain about them.

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FOS needs a panel of customers deciding cases, not more bankers lining their pockets with bonuses.

 

What's Best for You?

 

 

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

 

Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

Yorkshire Bank Moneyclaim issued 21/6/06 £4,489.39 full settlement received 26 January 2007

:p

 

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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That's interesting because, so far the staff at the FOS have emphatically denied any financial connection with the financial organisations.

 

 

Its nothing to do with the staff, but this is also common knowledge.

 

As FOS is a free service for the consumer, they have to be funded somehow, they are funded by charging the bank/ financial institution a fee for looking at the complaints they receive.

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  • 2 weeks later...
My complaint against the Halifax was supposed to go to the Ombudsman 2 months ago and I had an email today to say its still waiting. I do know the staff are working really long hours, had a call at 8.30 pm one night and 4.00 pm on a Saturday afternoon, the Adjudicator told me she was working on the Sunday as well. Might help to reduce their hours if (a) they actually read the correspondence sent to them and (b) actually absorbed the information given to them in 2 phone calls, plus followed up by an email.

 

this post is so true it's not funny. i have 2 cases with the fos. both of them are against natwest bank. i just received a letter from the adjudicator who said the bank didn't have

to refund a £200 deposit to a company i made, using a debit card which was covered for purchase transaction at the time (upto 45 days). to make matters worse the adjudicator (after 2 phone calls) didn't know i had already taken the case to court and won and was only asking the fos to uphold

the contract i had with natwest, under it's terms and conditions. (with an advantage gold account). the payment protection covers loss, accidental damage

and theft.

when i explained this over the phone the adjudicator had the balls to say that he has a different interuptation of the word "loss" other than the standard definition. i spent 12 minutes trying to get the adjudicator to express what he thought 'loss' meant. after the third attempt, to get a response i gave up.

the ombudsman will no doubt side with the adjudicator and i'll be forced to go to a county court.

does the fos have to accept the CC decision?

Edited by pop_gun
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  • 4 weeks later...

i sent the above case back to the adjudicator and the assessor (the same one no less) called a few days ago to ask for the particulars of my court case.

what irks me is he will no doubt arrive at the same conclusion he had before.

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Going through the FOS on behalf of my Mum's estate regarding Natwest charges. Am appealing their decision that as the beneficiary of the estate the bank do not have to take into account my financial situation and had already taken into my Mum's parlous financial circumstances when we raised the claim. Any thoughts .

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  • 1 month later...

Hi all,

 

I have a number of cases with FOS but as of yet they have only ruled on one of them.

 

At first they ruled in the banks favour, but after making an official complaint with regards to the incompedence of the adjudicator and the sheer fact that a monkey could have provided a better explanation than her it got esculated to a higher authority and surprise surprise they ruled in my favour.

 

I still haven't got the outcome I require but just the sheer fact that FOS changed the ruling and the bank concerned have now made an offer, albeit they are not admitting liability, I m starting to get somewhere. I have rejected the offer and I won't back off until I get the outcome I want. Failing that I am prepared to take the bank in question to court as by FOS ruling in my favour and the bank concerned making an offer I already 3/4 of the way there.

 

You can read all about it here.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?219490-Claiming-back-PPI-once-they-have-refused-too&p=3187827&highlight=#post3187827

 

Regards

Scrapper Coco 8-)

"I just want to make people silky-smooth!"

 

Scrapper vs MBNA Partial Settlement Success. Saved £13,000 :lol:

Scrapper vs Barclays Bank Plc PPI Reclaim Success £5,500 :lol:

Scrapper vs Barclaycard Partial Settlement Success. Saved £6,000 :lol:

 

Scrapper vs Tesco's FOS upheld complaint. Possible court action to get default removed

 

Scrapper vs Egg (Barclaycard) Awaiting FOS

 

Scrapper vs Barclays Bank Plc Offered made & Refused. This means war :-x

Scrapper vs Barclaycard (Cabot) Waiting 4 years for CCA. Cabot advised irresolvable :lol:

 

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i've had a few biased decisions (in favour of the bank) where the same Ombudsman has stated (on 3 different accounts and banks) that legal assignment to a debt agency does not matter, the bank was still left with an unpaid balance and hence has used this as a decision to (1) send my refund to the debt agency or (2) let the bank put it towards their write off.

 

the problem with me accepting either offer was that i'd settled the whole balances at the debt agencies and was fully entitled to the refund but in each case the bank offered to repay to the account at the agency. The FOS didn't check whether there was a balance or not and accepted what the bank offered.

 

the FOS have no power to include a third party into a complaint (I asked them to write to the DCA for info) but seem to have the power to pay them my refund, with no investigation into whether they're entitled to it.

 

this was in 2008 and since then i haven't been able to budge the banks in each case. They refer to the FOS decision (because it favoured them) and say they cannot look into it any more.

 

what can i do with these accounts (with the FOS) as i don't want to take the banks to court (charges/PPI are over 6 years now) and i am losing thousands in total.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The FOS don't handle any money. They only instruct. Unless informed to the contrary, the company involved will use any award against your outstanding account if it's in arrears.

 

I've been through the whole system and it took over 2 years, but I wouldn't change a thing.

 

Can I be brutally honest without being ripped apart?

 

People expect far too much for nothing and don't help theirselves. Some put in claims for next to nothing on bank charges that they have had control over and expect an instant outcome in their favour. Others do it as part of a battle to save their homes and are tied into far more complex contracts.

 

Of course they are funded by the financial institutions. Who else would you expect to do it? They can't be truly independent and have the knowledge to deal with the level of complaints. Who can? Everyone has a connection with finances or would be open to *cough* bribes.

 

Please remember this is just my opinion but I do think a lot of the bank charges, and minor complaints results, have put a lot of people off going through the FOS for more important issues. It's not an easy solution, it's not a get rich quick scheme but with a bit of patience it can bring results. Obviously I had gripes at the time but looking back it was all done fairly, I was fully informed and they did everything they said they would.

 

On the form they ask what it is you want. All I put was, 'for the account to be properly conducted and to be treated fairly' . No amount of money could have made up for the losses. It worked, and I've no doubt by now I'd have lost my home if I hadn't have gone through the FOS.

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Unless informed to the contrary, the company involved will use any award against your outstanding account if it's in arrears.

 

And of there's no money owed to either the bank or the debt agency (to whom the account was sold) after the consumer has paid in full (including charges/PPI and associated interest) then who receives the refund?

 

In my case, it was the debt agency even though I showed proof of paying the debt(s) off in full. The FOS just didn't want to know. Another worrying thing i came across was that the bank can keep the refund towards its write off when it sold the debt, meaning even after i have paid the debt in full to the DCA, the bank can always show a write off balance.

 

In my case, it was either accept the offer to send the refund to the DCA (to whom i didn't owe anything) or let the bank put it towards its write off and the Ombudsman stated that "legal assignment to the DCA does not matter to me, the bank was still left with an upaid balance".

 

Totally unfair in my cases and i can't change the decision or take the banks to court (or even the DCA who got extra money from me because some banks sent them the refund anyway).

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And of there's no money owed to either the bank or the debt agency (to whom the account was sold) after the consumer has paid in full (including charges/PPI and associated interest) then who receives the refund?

 

In my case, it was the debt agency even though I showed proof of paying the debt(s) off in full. The FOS just didn't want to know. Another worrying thing i came across was that the bank can keep the refund towards its write off when it sold the debt, meaning even after i have paid the debt in full to the DCA, the bank can always show a write off balance.

 

In my case, it was either accept the offer to send the refund to the DCA (to whom i didn't owe anything) or let the bank put it towards its write off and the Ombudsman stated that "legal assignment to the DCA does not matter to me, the bank was still left with an upaid balance".

 

Totally unfair in my cases and i can't change the decision or take the banks to court (or even the DCA who got extra money from me because some banks sent them the refund anyway).

 

The FOS decision is not legally binding on the consumer, only the company, so you must have signed to say that was acceptable.

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I could prove that wrong but the story is far too long - it includes FOS changing "the truth the WHOLE truth" and made it "the truth, as given, if backed up by leaflets".

 

The fact an option was not advised but info was provided on what was advised meant I was fully informed (scratches head huh??)

 

Stating that due to a lack of evidence (info not sent by the bank. i might add) they had to make a decision on the likelyhood of what the bank would have done - found that the bank was more likely to get it right than wrong ---- four weeks later it published a league table and my bank was found to have mis-sold insurance in 86% of its cases (again scratches head - HUH ???)

 

This means that only 14 cases out of 100 were done correctly - and this means it is the most likely thing to happen ---- not by my old maths teacher it isnt.

 

I would really like to know how they worked that one out

HTH (Hope This Helps) RDM2006

 

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