Parking Charge Notices are issued because of an alleged matter of trespass. - Discussion

[scousegeezer]

Hi All,

Just a thread to discuss Parking Charge Notices.

I understand what is said on this site regarding them and I would not disgree with the advice to just ignore, Ignore and IGNORE.

 

why do I want to discuss it.

Just thought of another possible way of tackling the problem, from a legal point of view.

 

I think that everyone would agree that these Parking Charge Notices are issued because of an alleged matter of trespass.

 

However the principle of defending them is that the charge far outways the alleged "loss" to the landowner in such cases.

 

NOW, when I was at college studying law , man many moons ago, there was a case that we had to study.

Cant remember the name of the case, but the principle was that a plaintiff wished to claim damages from the respondent for a case of trespass.

 

There was a full blown civil trial and at the conclusion the Judge found that there was a case to answer and that the respondent did in actual fact trespass on the plaintiffs land.

 

However the was no apparrent damage caused to any land/property.

The Judge therefore awarded the plaintiff 1d ( one old penny).

 

Now whilst we may agree that in the majority of cases there has been an incidence of trespass when a Parking Charge Notice has been issued;

we would also agree that there has not been any damage caused to land/property.

 

My suggestion therefore is that once the [problem]mers write to you regarding their issue of the said notice ,

why dont we just send a letter to them and sellotape a penny to the letter ;

as their damages for the alleged trespass and quote the case

- if any of the legal eagles on here can recall the name(s) of the case.

 

You wouldnt have to supply any personal details, just with reference to your notice number so and so.

 

Any observations.

 

Cheers Scouseegezer:confused:

[Jamberson]

Why send them a penny when you can do nothing?

[sailor sam]

Hi All,

Just a thread to discuss Parking Charge Notices. I understand what is said on this site regarding them and I would not disgree with the advice to just ignore, Ignore and IGNORE.

So why do I want to discuss it. Just thought of another possible way of tackling the problem, from a legal point of view. I think that everyone would agree that these Parking Charge Notices are issued because of an alleged matter of trespass. However the principle of defending them is that the charge far outways the alleged "loss" to the landowner in such cases. NOW, when I was at college studying law , man many moons ago, there was a case that we had to study. Cant remember the name of the case, but the principle was that a plaintiff wished to claim damages from the respondent for a case of trespass. There was a full blown civil trial and at the conclusion the Judge found that there was a case to answer and that the respondent did in actual fact trespass on the plaintiffs land. However the was no apparrent damage caused to any land/property. The Judge therefore awarded the plaintiff 1d ( one old penny). Now whilst we may agree that in the majority of cases there has been an incidence of trespass when a Parking Charge Notice has been issued; we would also agree that there has not been any damage caused to land/property. My suggestion therefore is that once the [problematic] write to you regarding their issue of the said notice , why dont we just send a letter to them and sellotape a penny to the letter ; as their damages for the alleged trespass and quote the case - if any of the legal eagles on here can recall the name(s) of the case. You wouldnt have to supply any personal details, just with reference to your notice number so and so.

 

Any observations.

 

Cheers Scouseegezer:confused:

 

Where we gunna get the old pennies from? interesting proposal though! My only thought is by sending any payment (no matter how small), are we not admitting to trespass and as such run the risk of a landowner claiming further costs ect?

[scousegeezer]

Jamberson,

Only from the point of view of negating any possible action from the [problematic] in the future. Its possible that sooner or later one of the [EDIT] companies is going to try their hand at taking a case to court. There have also been cases on here of people actually paying the **** operators, as they are frightened of possible future action. If those people can be re-assured by just paying a penny damages, backed up by case law; then it would be worth it. Also from the point of view of trying to stay one jump ahead of the [problematic] if one of them does actually take a case to court. BUT the main point is as I say - just discussion.

 

Cheers - Scousegeezer

[Jamberson]

Only a court could decide whether you were liable for a penny, and in any case, the [problematic] could still sue you if they disagreed. You'd just be wasting a stamp - and a penny.

[scousegeezer]

Sailor sam,

I note your point. But if they get the message that they are only going to get a penny damages from someone. The responsibility of how much they spend on getting the owner dettails will fall to them. After all, if I remember correctly the principle of Civil Law is only to address any losses and if expenses far outway any possible recoverable damages ; as is such cases; then the expenses are not regarded as being reasonable - set against the fact that there hasn't been any damage.

 

Scousegeezer

[pin1onu]

Hi All,

Just a thread to discuss Parking Charge Notices. I understand what is said on this site regarding them and I would not disgree with the advice to just ignore, Ignore and IGNORE.

So why do I want to discuss it. Just thought of another possible way of tackling the problem, from a legal point of view. I think that everyone would agree that these Parking Charge Notices are issued because of an alleged matter of trespass.

Most of the PPCs seek to charge under contract law. Unless they specifically mention Trespass in the signage then they are going to get nowhere. Second Trespass is dependent on landowner permission. Unless the PPC have a proper agency agreement and pass all damages to the Landlord then it's not going to fly. You could challenge on the basis that the PPC have no right to trespass damages.

 

However the principle of defending them is that the charge far outways the alleged "loss" to the landowner in such cases. NOW, when I was at college studying law , man many moons ago, there was a case that we had to study. Cant remember the name of the case, but the principle was that a plaintiff wished to claim damages from the respondent for a case of trespass. There was a full blown civil trial and at the conclusion the Judge found that there was a case to answer and that the respondent did in actual fact trespass on the plaintiffs land. However the was no apparrent damage caused to any land/property. The Judge therefore awarded the plaintiff 1d ( one old penny). Now whilst we may agree that in the majority of cases there has been an incidence of trespass when a Parking Charge Notice has been issued; we would also agree that there has not been any damage caused to land/property. My suggestion therefore is that once the [problematic] write to you regarding their issue of the said notice , why dont we just send a letter to them and sellotape a penny to the letter ; as their damages for the alleged trespass and quote the case - if any of the legal eagles on here can recall the name(s) of the case. You wouldnt have to supply any personal details, just with reference to your notice number so and so.

This is something I hint at for people being clamped - challenge the amount of the release fee and make the clamper/landowner justify the charge.

 

Remember Tort law is about putting the wronged party in the position they would have been in had the tort not occurred.

 

I would suggest that contract tort is easier to defend - using the privity, penal charges, unfair terms in consumer contract Acts as a starting point. Having sufficient rights to charge for parking on the land.

 

Trespass is a bit more arbitary to defend. Damages are allowed to be penal as the amount cannot be pre-negotiated. However offering a penny to settle is an admission that the tort occurred. They can always reject the settlement and use the letter against you.

 

Surely it is even easier is to ignore. They can't get to first base if they can't find the driver. This is appropriate for both alleged trespass and alleged contract breaches.

[lamma]

Hard to trespass when there is big sign saying 'Parking', the invitation is there.

[scousegeezer]

Pin1onu,

All noted and agreed. I was just forward thinking. Some day some way, one of the [problematic] is going to chance their arm in court to try and get around the ignore route. Just preparation really for when that day comes. I will continue to think about it.

Thanks evry1.

 

Cheers - Scousegeezer.

[Al27]

Saying 'no parking' and then demanding a 'parking charge' is something they haven't really though through.

 

It's all about thinking of words to fit the acronym 'PCN'.

 

Fraudulent practice from start to finish.

 

If you don't want people parking on your land, clamp the car and charge a £30 release fee. But they don't want to deter people parking - they want money.

[nero12]

Pin1onu,

All noted and agreed. I was just forward thinking. Some day some way, one of the [problematic] is going to chance their arm in court to try and get around the ignore route. Just preparation really for when that day comes. I will continue to think about it.

Thanks evry1.

 

Cheers - Scousegeezer.

If the PPC [problematic] dont own the land or do not have any rights on it IE letting rights then how can they claim tresspass, parking charges for a free car park or any loss whatsoever.

[letshelp]

It's all about thinking of words to fit the acronym 'PCN'..

Please, Cheque Now

regards

[danielr]

The original case is for trespass?

 

if a land owner makes their land accessible to the public by way of a well maintained access road. tarmacs the area, mark out bays and invite people to park there then they can hardly claim it's trespass when people take them up on their offer.

 

why would you pay a penny fine for trespass when no trespass has occurred?