Ramjet v NatWest \Shoosmiths Court action

[manchesteruni]

Your original order was forthwith wasn't it ? In which case they are within their rights to apply for a CO regardless of whether you have kept up with the redetermined installment amounts.

[patrickq1]

knowing nasty west they are like a dog with a bone ,, gleefully they ran out of time on mine hehe ,,12,000 plus intrest from 1991 lol so they can stick that up their pie an smoke it or eat it ,no more worries about the charge on property they outa time

patrickq1

[ramjet]

ok a quick reply ,loads of mail coming through the door addressed to me and the wife.Unfortunately she knows nothing of this disaster and my stupidity over the years.We have had letters from land registry and now more stuff from shoosmiths all of which i have caught before getting to her.i fear the marriage will be finished when she finds out this lot.We used her premium bonds to pay of other debts before and that was it she thought.

I now feel sick with worry,how can things have got so far out of control,I just feel like a complete failure.

 

The post above

Your original order was forthwith wasn't it ? In which case they are within their rights to apply for a CO

 

Does that mean as the judge said they could apply then obviously they have.

 

Could i offer to incress the monthly payments to prevent the charging order happening ?

 

ramjet

[ramjet]

in a last minute ditch to prevent this from happening i am proposing to contact Shoosmiths.

When i went to court in November the solicitor representing Shoosmiths said that a monthly payment of (from memory) of about 135 a month would prevent any further court action.I will email shoosmiths directly and also contact the court .A previous correspondance to the court i had suggested we wait until my first year accounts had been submitted so one could get an accurate picture as to my true or potential earning.To me this made sense as we could all see what i had earnt and the monthly payments could be more in line with that.Having recently gone self employed i have only just sent my first year accounts in.

Surely it is better to pay some of the debt now as opposed to wait for 20 years or so until I either move or die !

 

Any thoughts ? good or bad please

[manchesteruni]

First thought, you need to talk with your wife.

 

Secondly, can you afford £135 a month ? If you can't you will just default and end up back in the same position further down the road, and there is no guarantee they will drop the charging order - they want it as security to ensure you continue payments and if you skip off they have a claim on your property to obtain their money, so it could just be putting off the inevitable.

 

But if you can afford it and can get them to accept no CO unless you miss a further payment on the installments at that level then yes that would be a plan, otherwise go defend the final charging order at court.

[NewToTheFight]

My experience, if it's of any help

I was facing a brick wall, shot myself in the foot so could not defend.

I contacted the OC & asked for a settlement figure, they agreed 6k I asked them to confirm in writing

5 mins later they phoned me back & said as it was with DCA I would have to talk to them

Phoned DCA told them what I had agreed with the OC, they came back to me with an offer of a Tomlin Order & a stay of proceedings

I now pay £7.2K of an £8.2k original balance, in an agreed time period.

It hurts but no further proceedings & a lot less worry

 

I would advise talking with your other half, mancesteruni has some very sound advice for you

 

best of luck

[stressed2009]

Hiya Ramjet, have been trying to send you a PM but your inbox is full I am now in the same situation as you

[ramjet]

sorted now ,please try again.

Ramjet

[ramjet]

Oh well approached Shoosmiths and they said no to increasing the amount and stopping the court action.I will do a letter to the judge in preperation of the hearing in March.I did offer the amount the solicitor said in court.

It states on the letter I do not have to attend ! would it be wise to ? anyone been there before at this stage ?

What should I put in my letter any cases I should quote ?

Ramjet

[pumpytums]

Hi Ram,

I would attend if you can point out that you have been paying the CCJ on time and have also offered increased payments and see no need for a charging order. Basically make it clear that the Claimants sols are been unreasonable which they blooming well are. If you miss payments then their course of action may be ok in some eyes but as you haven't. Just do your best and argue like hell for any extra costs they may try to add. They have their pound of flesh.

 

Sorry I can't help more.

 

Pumpytums

[bazaar]

Make sure you attend court, you need to put your side across, any evidence of offering more will certainly help.

You can show how unreasonable they are being, maybe be a bit cheeky and ask for costs, no harm in asking,

[patrickq1]

dont forget Ram you need to attend and if your offer had been made under Part 36 and its been refused then the courts will take a very dim view well i think it comes under Part 36 ,this should go in your favor

patrickq1

http://www.gillhams.com/articles/376.cfm

Edited March 1, 2011 by patrickq1

[ramjet]

ref part 36 it seems to relate to a total settlement as opposed to an increased monthly amount to prevent the charging order.

Can it be used or quoted as i am only offering to increase the amount paid each month.

Ramjet

[manchesteruni]

I don't think part 36 offers are relevant to your case at all ramjet.

[AndyOrch]

Why Make a part 36

Offer in the Course of Litigation?

 

For parties to litigation, there are various reasons to consider making a Part 36 settlement offer. For example:

• A strategic and well structured Part 36 Offer may mean that the parties more quickly obtain a satisfactory result in the litigation.
  
  

• A Part 36 Offer places pressure on the other party to the litigation (the party to whom the offer is made) to seriously consider the strength of their case, whether they are prepared to settle, or whether they are prepared to risk a costs penalty if the matter goes to hearing and they do not ultimately do better than the offer put to them. For example, if a Claimant with a strong claim makes a Part 36 Offer to a Defendant to settle for 85% of the total claim, a pragmatic Defendant may jump at the chance to settle on this basis in view of the risk that if the claim was heard by a Judge an order would be made for payment of the full amount of the claim.
  
  

• Parties are highly likely to save legal costs in the longer term through a quicker settlement of the litigation.
  
  

• Exploring settlement prior to hearing can often be advantageous to both parties. At this stage parties can still negotiate towards a compromise suited to their commercial needs, rather than have an “all or nothing” result imposed on them by the Judge or decision maker at a final hearing.
  
  

The effectiveness of a Part 36 Offer lies in its ability to place pressure on the party receiving the offer who will know that, if they do not accept your Part 36 offer and fail to beat your Part 36 offer at the hearing, the Court is likely to order that they make a considerably larger contribution

to your legal costs than they would otherwise have had to make.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

[patrickq1]

Exploring settlement prior to hearing can often be advantageous to both parties. At this stage parties can still negotiate towards a compromise suited to their commercial needs, rather than have an “all or nothing” result imposed on them by the Judge or decision maker at a final hearing.

[manchesteruni]

With respect it is irrelevant to Ramjets case unless he made a part 36 offer following the original claim form for a lump sum payment which was for more than the judgmented amount which I don't believe to be the case.

 

He needs to get a witness statement detailing his circumstances(family home/negative equity/cause relationship problems etc anything really) and income expenditure sheet and evidence of the payments made since the judgement, plus copy of letter offering to increase monthly payments (just make sure it corresponds with IE sheet) to go into court 7 days before the hearing for the charging order.

 

The court did give permission for the application and it is very likely it will go through.

 

Ramjet you really need to talk to your wife before this happens....can you imagine how much worse it will be if she finds out in a few years when you try to move house, or worse if you miss installments and they apply for a sale order ?

[Gallahad]

In a press release today a high court judge in wales slated MBNA for torturring a defendant with incessant phone calls and wrote off a card balance of over £20,000 because they failed to supply terms and conditions at the time of signing. This at least proves the banks and government have not got control over all the judiciary yet.

G

[manchesteruni]

Harrison v Link (MBNA) Feb 2011

[manchesteruni]

oops meant to put link http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Mercantile/2011/B3.html

[ramjet]

So ref part 36 can be quoted and used as a lever if i offer £150 a month ? as they have refused £130.

 

Should i try to get some conditions put in if the judge accepts the charging order ?

 

Reference Wife,not had the balls to tell her yet,she is already on medication for depression and anxiety problems.And when i lost my job she had to use he grandmothers money to help us out and settle some other debts.

I have failed her and not a day goes by without me thinking about it.

ramjet

[pumpytums]

Hi Ram,

at the end of the day if they manage to get a CO you pay £60 until it's paid off, alternatively you pay them £130-150 they don't request a CO it's their game. Make sure they don't get a CO and £150, and any extra costs they are the ones been greedy you received a CCJ and have been paying it as ordered. One more thing I would be prepared in case the judge asks you how are you now able to pay £150 this is above the budget you submitted?? I assume you must have cut something very important like life assurance pension payments you get my gist.

 

They cannot force you to sell your property (as it's joint and you have children) they are just trying to insure their debt against you filing for bankruptcy. I don't agree with their actions but I think that's what they are trying to do.

 

Pumpytums

[stone-broke]

Hi Ram.......have cleared my inbox if you want to try to PM me again! 8-)

[ramjet]

Well another fun day in court,depressing to see the list of cases and loads of charging orders !

Charging order went through ,objections not even discussed ,solicitor said he has done 7000 charging orders and averages 1000 a year,bloody hell he was not bragging just stating fact.He was a nice bloke and did say that any debt over a £1000 that could not be paid back in a year would be handled this way.There would be no stipulation as to force the sale of my property and the monthly amount seemed to be irelevant.

He mentioned it was a sort of accepted norm that any other creditors would not object as it would rock the staus quo,afterall they would not object if the ball was on the other foot.

It was also said the natwest would be the more aggresive as they do not really have a way to manage there client debt situation unlike other lendors which are able and happy to process small amounts of £5.00 a month or so.My other lendors have monthly amounts between 10 and now 25 a month as i had to increase one recently as court action was threatened.

So now i pay 60 a month for the rest of my life me thinks unless we move which is highly unlikely.

Although disappointed a CO now in place and i was pretty detailed as to how it was handled the court system seemed so bias.I had enough confidence to handle it with the support and guidance from a few key players on here,without this I am sure it could have been worse.

Now onto EGG as the solicitor for them are playing hardball.

Thanks,

Ramjet

[pumpytums]

Sorry to hear that Ram, we tried.

Just one thing though it does show that Nasty were more interested in securing it than actually getting the money back quicker. I wonder if they just want to balance their books in the light of their last few years of "performance". You offered them a fair deal they didn't take it.

 

If you don't mind me asking did you have much equity in your home?

 

The only reason I ask is that I found a search on my CRF relating to property from our friends.

 

I don't agree with charging orders I think we should be allowed to pay back at a rate we can afford. If we get in the sh%^t creditors should behave in a fair and just manner. I know creditors don't have to accept reduced payments but why not? They want their money, we generally want to pay them back. You phone them up asking for reduced payments as you have lost work, pay cuts etc they think you are lying and you get onto the "won't pay" conveyor belt. I have tried to come to arrangements with my creditors most have accepted a few and namely one behaves like a petulant child. Until they stop throwing their toys out of the pram they will get naff all. They may take me to court they may win, that's their choice but I attempted to come to an arrangement they decided not to play. I know my attempt won't count for anything but I tried and that's what is important.

 

The recent Harrison vs Link Financial case has brought it to the general public's attention how companies behave.

 

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Mercantile/2011/B3.html.

 

 

Pumpytums