Apex chasing RBS and Clydesdale debts

[Emeraldson82]

Hi all.

 

I have a loan with RBS with an outstanding balance of around £26k and a credit card with Clydesdale (part of National Australia Bank I believe) with an outsatnding balance of around £8k. I paid them both on time every month until about 18 months ago when I was laid off. Since then I've only been able to get part time work up until 6 months ago when I had to go on JSA.

 

Apex contacted me a few months ago and told me they had bought both debts from the respective banks. Since I was on JSA I told them I couldn't afford to pay back much. We eventually agreed on £10 per month for the RBS loan and £5 per month for the credit card. So I set up a direct debit with them. It was all fine until this month when they rang me a few days after the direct bebit had come out claiming I had fallen behind with the payments. I calmly told them they we're mistaken and that both direct debits had been paid on time and in full to which they replied; "Oh yes, it seems there was a mistake on the system. I'll just make a note of that."

 

Every day since then they have rang me. Every day they say the same thing. Every day I have to go through the same process of telling them they have made a mistake and every day they tell me "I'll make a note of it on the system and the calls will stop". Yet they still continue to ring me every day.

 

Any advice on what I should do about it?

 

Also on a side note they also rang me around a month or so ago telling me I was eligible for a 50% discount on the debts I owed. Is there anything I should read into that?

 

Thanks in advance all.

[cerberusalert]

First send them a CCA request to see if they are entitled to collect this debt & if it's enforcable. If they fail to provide it within 12 working days from receipt, or the CCA is unenforcable you can legally withold any payment until they do. Send it recorded delivery enclosing a £1 postal order. When you get a reply, scan it & remove any identifying details and post it back here where we can have a look at it. We'll advise you from there;

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:- Account No: XXXXXXXX/Your Reference Number: XXXXXXX

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77 will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR). I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

Furthermore, with regards to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

 

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls. (Delete if necessary)

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

 

You are reminded of the following under Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

 

Trading Standards can bring about a prosecution if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt due under contract, he or she:

 

(a) harasses the other with demands for payment which by their frequency, or the manner or occasion of their making, or any accompanying threat or publicity are calculated to subject him or his family or household to alarm, distress or humiliation;

(b) falsely represents, in relation to the money claimed, that criminal proceedings lie for failure to pay it;

© falsely represent themselves to be authorized in some official capacity to claim or enforce payment;

(d) utters a document falsely represented by him to have some official character or purporting to have some official character which he knows it has not.

 

I am of the view that your harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Further to this if it is your intention to arrange a call from your 'Doorstep Collectors', I note that there is only an implied license under English Common Law for certain people to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.).

 

Take note, I revoke license under English Common Law for you, or any of your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so without my permission, you will then be liable to damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be conspiring in a trespass if you sent someone to visit me nevertheless. Any trespassers you attempt to send therefore will be dealt with accordingly.Be further advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded.

 

(Optional addition)

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully **Edit to suit**

 

(Print do not sign signature)

[Emeraldson82]

Thanks for your help cerberusalert. I'll get right on that.

[Bazooka Boo]

Have you still got a Direct Debit set up with them??

 

I only ask as you are aware that they can and often will take as much money out of your account as they can when they can:eek:

 

I would very strongly advise you set up a standing order, which is something that you control and not them or the bank. It is much much safer.;-)

[Emeraldson82]

I set up the direct debit on an account I use for this purpose only so there is only ever enough funds in there for them to take the agreed amount. To their credit they have been taking the payments on time and to the amount agreed. The only problem is the harassing phonecalls which I've now lost patience with.

[Bazooka Boo]

I set up the direct debit on an account I use for this purpose only so there is only ever enough funds in there for them to take the agreed amount.

 

Good Thinking Batman!

I bet that really grates them. As for the incessant harassing phone calls take a read of the following, what you do with that knowledge is up to you, but if you have told them to stop ringing you and they continue then, as it is a criminal offence (harassment) then the best people to deal with criminal matters would be the Police, but not via 999 clearly.

 

Protection from Harassment Act 1997 (c. 40)

 

http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?&parentActiveTextDocId=2232318&ActiveTextDocId=2232391

 

Administration of Justice Act 1970 (c.31)

[babybear39]

Re: the harasment, quote Furguson V British Gas Trading to them

[Emeraldson82]

The reply from Apex:

 

 

 

First off, the credit card was from Clydesdale Bank in Scotland, not Egg so I don't know how they can get a copy of the credit agreement from them unless Egg and Clydesdale are one and the same. As far as I know though Egg is owned by the Citigroup and Clydesdale is owned by the National Australia Bank. Either way I get the feeling I'm dealing with a shower of muppets in Apex.

 

"I will continue to chase Egg" gave me a chuckle.

 

I'll need to do a cca request for the RBS debt now and I'll post the results of both when i get them.

[cerberusalert]

I take it you have 'expectations' they can't 'manage'?

[andydd]

The reply from Apex:

 

 

 

First off, the credit card was from Clydesdale Bank in Scotland, not Egg so I don't know how they can get a copy of the credit agreement from them unless Egg and Clydesdale are one and the same. As far as I know though Egg is owned by the Citigroup and Clydesdale is owned by the National Australia Bank. Either way I get the feeling I'm dealing with a shower of muppets in Apex.

 

"I will continue to chase Egg" gave me a chuckle.

 

I'll need to do a cca request for the RBS debt now and I'll post the results of both when i get them.

 

Egg bought a huge job-lot of debts from Egg a few weeks ago so no doubt most of the letters they get recently are just about Egg, so no doubt they have eggs on the brain..or eggs for brains maybe.

 

I've been having fun with them recently when they call me

[Emeraldson82]

This is their reply to the RBS debt:

 

 

They also returned the postal order.

[Bazooka Boo]

HA you gotta love em! Completely WRONG WRONG WRONG.

 

Account in dispute, failing to provide said documents in time, and failing to carry out their 'legal' obligations.

 

You win!!

 

You do not have to do any such thing, they have to send your 'legal request' for the agreement to 'their' client.

 

Send a copy along with your complaint to the OFT, and tell Apex you want a copy of their complaints procedure also.

 

In fact it's here;

http://www.apexcm.co.uk/complaints

 

And as they are members of the DBSG/CSA you should write a formal complaint to them also, telling them that this company seems to think they can ignore their legal obligations..http://www.csa-uk.com/page/contact-csa

Edited November 27, 2009 by Bazooka Boo

[cerberusalert]

You should remind them of their obligations;

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

[MorganaNK]

My Mum got a copy of the first letter you received except about a Lloyds TSB account... and then a couple of weeks later they sent a Final Notice of Intent letter - seems to me they haven't got a bl**dy clue what they are doing!

 

I sent them an Account in Dispute letter... and am waiting to see how they amuse me next ;o)

[luckysandpiper]

Have you still got a Direct Debit set up with them??

 

I only ask as you are aware that they can and often will take as much money out of your account as they can when they can:eek:

 

I would very strongly advise you set up a standing order, which is something that you control and not them or the bank. It is much much safer.;-)

 

I strongly endorse this - I would never pay a DCA by direct debit - I paid 1st Credit by cheque for six months (on random monthly dates) before they finally gave in and gave me their bank details

 

LSP

[Bazooka Boo]

It's OK, the OP has a separate bank account where he only puts the correct amount of money agreed, in. So there is no chance of them taking what they can't have......although, if there were an overdraft facility on the account, they could still feasibly take more money than agreed??

[Emeraldson82]

No, there's no overdraft facility on the account BB, it's just a basic account.

 

So what should be my next move? Should I resend the CCA request and highlight the paragraph that states it's their responsibility to pass the request to the creditor?

[luckysandpiper]

This is their reply to the RBS debt:

 

 

They also returned the postal order.

 

 

Apex did this to me with a Barclaycard debt, and then closed my account with them. Then B/card sent me a current copy of the T&C's and started giving me all the b*** about their compliance. I've now started on the CPR 31.16 route - I'm 99% sure I didn't sign anything other than an application form.

[Bazooka Boo]

No, there's no overdraft facility on the account BB, it's just a basic account. Your way ahead of em there!

 

So what should be my next move? Should I resend the CCA request and highlight the paragraph that states it's their responsibility to pass the request to the creditor?

 

No there is no need to keep sending CCA requests, you only ever need to send one, and then they should comply , Send them the account in dispute template, and as Cerbs said, remind them of their obligations to fulfil your request.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

[andydd]

No there is no need to keep sending CCA requests, you only ever need to send one, and then they should comply , Send them the account in dispute template, and as Cerbs said, remind them of their obligations to fulfil your request.

 

What a lovely paragraph .. That really spells it out clearly to Apex, the question is are they really that dumb or just perhaps they are snowed under with CCA requests, they clearly recently bought many (1000's ?) or Egg debts, mine included and other threads have shown they they are maybe buckling under the pressure.

 

Andy

[luckysandpiper]

What a lovely paragraph .. That really spells it out clearly to Apex, the question is are they really that dumb or just perhaps they are snowed under with CCA requests, they clearly recently bought many (1000's ?) or Egg debts, mine included and other threads have shown they they are maybe buckling under the pressure.

 

Andy

 

No, Andy, they are that dumb. LSP

[andydd]

No, Andy, they are that dumb. LSP

 

Ha..there is another Apex thread somewhere where a CAGer has posted up the Apex site that has pictures of Apex staff and why they like the job so much, its funny reading

 

Andy

[Bazooka Boo]

This: Meet the Team

[MorganaNK]

I've just started another thread about them and their threatogram that we got this morning - they really are insane!

[andydd]

This: Meet the Team

 

Hee..yep..note for most of them its not exactly their first choice of job.