Bornrich v MBNA (Optima Legal)

[bornrich]

Good evening caggers,

 

I'm trying a different approach to get hold of my copy agreement.

 

Usual runaround trying to get a 'true copy' of agreement from MBNA, much the same as a lot of the threads on this board. That is up until now when Optima Legal appeared on the scene.

 

Quick history of my attempts to get documentation from MBNA:

 

30/6/09 – CCA request to RMA (NCO) DCA acting for MBNA at the time

13/7/09 – CCA request reminder sent again to RMA (NCO)

23/07-09 – DPA request sent to MBNA

7/9/09 – Account in dispute letter sent to MBNA/RMA

7/9/09 – Letter before action sent to Data Controller at MBNA – no response

8/10/09 – Letter to Gavin Theobald at MBNA – no response

12/10/09 – Final response letter received from MBNA about dispute

 

Then on the 8th October I received a 'Notice of Legal Action' letter from Optima Legal:

 

Letter from Optima Legal

 

Although the body of the letter was quite obviously a template letter with wooly threats of possible legal action I noticed that the letter was headed 'Notice of Legal Action'. So, reading around some of the excellent threads in CAG on CPR I decided to play this route to try and flush out my agreement.

 

I responded with this letter on the 14th October:

 

First letter to Optima Legal

 

And followed up on 13th November with the following to Optima Legal:

 

Second letter to Optima Legal

 

And I've also informed Optima's client (MBNA) of my intentions:

 

Letter to MBNA

 

Now I'm just going to wait to see what happens. I know this is a high risk strategy but I've had experience of MBNA sidestepping CCA requests and have also read many many threads saying the same.

 

What do other caggers think of this strategy? Is this a good approach? Or will I simply stir up a hornets nest of legal action?

 

Bornrich

[pompeyfaith]

Given that there is a very good chance that MBNA do not have the original agreement as all are scanned onto microfiche your strategy is a good one.

 

As for Optima Legal they are the pits for a top 100 legal firm I have had very bad dealings with them and are in the process of bringing a claim of contempt to court

 

If you want some inside knowledge of Optima Legal have a read here from page 65.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/151709-help-65.html

 

Regards

 

PF

[bornrich]

Thanks for the link PF. A nice long thread with some good info on Optima Legal there. Threads like these give me hope that I can win against these people – the fear of anything legal is diminished and you start to feel reassured by others' experiences and dealing with the very same issues/people/companies/solicitors etc.

 

Looking back I think the Internet is probably the greatest invention of all time. Closely followed by the explosion in information transparency that we're only just beginning to really understand. It means I can coble a response back to a solicitor that not only inconveniences them but challenges their arrogant disdain of the general public in these matters.

 

Thanks also for the address for the LCA who will be interested in Optima's threats and then not following through as well as failure complying with CPR, even if it is pre-case.

 

When (if) I get a response from Optima I will post it up. And if I don't I'll keep you posted as to my progress through the courts...

 

I'm going to reread the entire thread again tomorrow as it's a great read. This has really bolstered me up!

 

Bornrich

[pompeyfaith]

Bornrich you are welcome and what my thread shows is optima are no threat to u just follow court procedure yourself within the time scales given and optima will start messing up the case and no doubt big time like mine good luck PF

[EOS-5D]

Hi There

 

Do you have any updates for us

 

EOS-5D

[bornrich]

Yes,

 

Letter in today from the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA) saying thank you for all the hard copies of correspondence and that the case would be allocated to a case worker soon. (I sent hard copies so the case worker has everything he or she needs.)

 

The Legal Complaints Service (LCS) has passed it to the SRA because I'm complaining about the conduct of a solicitor instructed by someone else.

 

Actually that's a point. If anyone out there wishes to do the same you might speed things up by going straight to the SRA (I'm not sure if the LCS have to refer the case though.)

 

Here's the address for the SRA:

 

Solicitors Regulation Authority

8 Dormer Place

Leamington Spa

Warwickshire

CV32 5AE

 

Solicitors Regulation Authority - For solicitors

 

I'm glad my complaint is being taken seriously by the LCS and now the SRA as I really do want to make sure that the special position solicitors hold in society isn't eroded by creditors asking them to threaten legal action without any intention of so doing.

 

This has nothing to do with causing problems for 1 particular solicitor and everything to do with ensuring that other people, who may be affected or distressed even, don't unjustifiably receive a threatening letter from a solicitor.

 

Allocation to a case worker can take up to 8 weeks. I'll keep you posted.

 

I've also complained about Green & Co solicitors (instructed by RBS). Complaint is slightly different but centres on whether Ms Green (and the SRA) is happy with how RBS are acting under her name and credentials (as a bogus firm of solicitors).

 

Bornrich

[pompeyfaith]

No Bornrich you did right all complaints to the SRA have to be sent via the LCS and they will forward it to SRA.

 

Pass as to why it has to be done this way though maybe it has something to do with them being third party sols.

 

Regards.

 

PF

[pompeyfaith]

bornrich,

 

But I am glad that you took the step of making a complaint to the SRA because I have also.

 

I wont go into the details of my complaint here but as you have read my thread I'm sure you know why.

 

Anyway with yours and mine about the same sols im sure the SRA will have a field day

 

Regards

 

PF

[Its WAR]

But did you get any agreements?

[pompeyfaith]

But did you get any agreements?

 

LOL:lol::lol:

[ihpj]

SUBB'ing with interest!

 

I am working my way through with MBNA and Optimistic Legal HERE - can I invite comment on my own tussle please?

[Series3]

Mmmmm

I sent a CCA request to RMA and got a copy of my letter back yesterday telling me to ask MBNA for it as they were only acting for them. I didn't get my £1 back and they reminded me to send another to MBNA.

Also today I recieved the very same letter from Optima as yours.

 

 

should I send the account in dispute letter to RMA?

Should I try for it with Optima?

 

also, where do the bank of America come into this?

is that anything to do with the securitization by RBS?

who owns who?

who do I actually, allegedly owe money to?

who can take action?

 

I'm confused.!

[bornrich]

Series 3,

 

I wouldn't bother sending it to Optima. It seems they are only 'instructed' to send one threat-o-gram out in the hope that you will telephone MBNA.

 

I'm beginning to wonder whether this is standard procedure for MBNA when they know the agreement (if they find one) is unenforceable.

 

In which case I wonder what the point is? Are they hoping it will eventually grind us down?

 

With my own tussle their pseudo threat of legal action from a solicitor clearly hasn't worked, so, having exhausted all other collection attempts, they seem to be in listening mode. In fact, I'm much happier with the tone of this last letter and I'm considering making an offer based on the lender having an unenforceable agreement. My boy's young enough (2 yrs) not to miss the expensive toys this Christmas – a cardboard box with wheels drawn on will suffice.

 

So does any cagger know what would be a reasonable percentage to offer? Also, should the percentage be applied to the figure owed now or at the point when a default notice was sent?

 

Also how do I go about a Full & Final by letter, with safeguards so I can wrap the debt up for good.

 

Here's the latest letter received from MBNA:

 

MBNA being reasonable?

 

Bornrich

[Series3]

I have one of those from RBS offering me 25% off for full settlement (different CC)

or phone them for even more reductions....

I thought they were just being nice for xmas...

 

seeing as they can't give me a readable CCA and T&C I just file them.

 

Do you rekon I should send the account in dispute letter to RMA, they have the £! anyway..

[pompeyfaith]

Series3,

 

The response you got from rma is a load of bull, RMA are MBNA's inhouse DCA they work from the same office.

 

PF

[bornrich]

Langster,

 

This is invaluable advice. I've drawn the SRA's attention to rule 1 and rule 10.1 of the Code of Conduct but this bit about the letter possibly contravening the Malicious Communications Act deserves a mention too as it reaches beyond the regulator's own guidelines. May give my complaint a little more clout.

 

I feel as though I should write to the SRA with these new concerns. Would it be okay if I paraphrased some of your response and included it in my letter to the SRA Langster?

 

Bornrich

[bornrich]

**GULP**

 

Just read Point 4 of the Malicious whatsit Act

 

(4) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to [F8 imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or to both].

 

I don't want to cause this solicitor too much trouble. Just a ticking off perhaps and for the firm to think twice before sending any more threatening letters out. How's a 6-month gap in his CV going to look to prospective employers?

 

However, another side of me sees the pensioner opening a similar letter to mine, worried sick that she will lose her home.

 

It's one of those Dickensian moral dilemmas... I think I'll sleep on it.

 

Bornrich

[bornrich]

Langster,

 

Thank you for your post. Now I understand where you stand, I am with you on this issue.

 

I will write that update letter to the SRA. My mind is made up.

 

Bornrich

[pompeyfaith]

Bornrich,

 

As you have probably read from my thread, as with regards to Optima Legal he is the man and gives out very good information.

 

So you are onto a winner there .

 

Nice to see him helping out other caggers with Optima issues.

 

Regards

 

PF

[bornrich]

... and the great thing is I can apply the same knowledge to Green & Co with RBS who seem to think it okay to pass off their operation as a legit firm of solicitors.

 

Had the confirmation on that one from the SRA today so it's a few days behind the Optimorons complaint.

 

As for MBNA it seems their nice side has subsided to threats of legal action and a charge on my property. This time the letter was worded very carefully. Interesting.

 

Bornrich.

[pompeyfaith]

Indeed you can, be sure to check out my thread after the 14th Jan as that is the day for my N244 hearing and where I intend to nail optima,s toes to the floor.

 

Regards

 

PF

[bornrich]

It's going to make my New Year extra special.

[Series3]

I think I'll report it...

I don't give a sh-t about a 6 month gap in their CV..

I don't take these threat o grams too seriously but the can cause

a fair amount of distress to some.

[Tomten]

I have a similar problem with MBNA and Optima.

 

I received a letter from Optima on Dec 2 which I responded to and offered to pay a token £1. On Dec 11 I received a reply. Since I haven't got access to a scanner I will rewrite it here:

 

Our Client:MBNA Europe Bank Ltd

Current balance xxx

 

We refer to the above matter and your letter 08/12/2009

 

We confirm that you should immediately commence making repayment by instalments of £1 per month.

Your first payment is due on23/12/2009 and each month on the same day thereafter to reduce the outstanding balance of debt. Please complete the attached standing order and send it to your bank, to take immediate effect.

 

Please ensure all future payments are made to Optima Legal rather than MBNA. Please find enclosed a returned cheque for £1 made payable to MBNA.

 

In addition, to protect its position, our client will also be seeking to secure the outstanding balance by obtaining a charging order against your property. This means that a charge will be registered against the property until such time as the property is sold or re-mortgaged or debt repaid in full. Until that time you should continue making the instalment repayments at the amount and frequency you have committed to.

 

We will commence court proceedings shortly to obtain the charging order.This will incur further costs which will be added to the debt, however no additional interest will be charged Once the charging order is obtained, our client will have the right to seek an order for sale of the property at any time.

 

Your financial situation will be subject to frequent reviews to assess whether the amount and the frequency of your repayments remain appropiate. Repayments should continue until your liability has been fully satisfied.

 

However in the meantime:

 

1 you sell or re-mortgage your property of

2 our client obtains an order for sale requiring the property to be sold:

 

our client will be entitled to be repaid the outstanding balance of debt at the time of sale, from any equity available from the property. If equtiy is not sufficient to cover the outstanding balance, you will remain liable for any shortfall.

 

We look forward to receiving your future payments under the repayment commitment you have made.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Optima Legal

 

 

===

 

The letter is not signed and no solicitor has given his/her name although there is an email address with a name of a person at Optima Legal.

 

I am looking forward to see what you think and if I should file a complaint similar to the one you have filed.

 

Best regards

[bornrich]

Tomten,

 

I think it's important you get clarification from Optima who actually 'owns' the debt here.

 

You have a situation where you try and set up a payment plan with the original creditor but are then told to pay Optima. And yet Optima state in their letter "In addition, to protect its [MBNA's] position, our client will also be seeking to secure the outstanding balance."

 

In the immortal words of Spock, that's illogical captain.

 

I'd write back and say you're all set up and ready to progress with the payment plan but request clarification on the above point.

 

Bornrich