Sneaky parking ticket ruined evening.

[LordLee]

I'm so livid about a parking ticket i received last night whilst taking my girlfriend to the cinema and meal. I'm hoping people will tell me if i have grounds for appeal.

 

I took my girlfriend to see 'UP' at the cinema (good film by the way). There is a pay and display by the cinema. We parked there, the car park is large, was pretty much empty (maybe 5cars). It was 6.15pm. The car park was free after 6.30pm. The film was due to start so we thought we could not wait and better pay the fee for a pay and display ticket. We needed change and there is a Burger King literally 10 seconds around the corner. We went to get change, came back at 6.18pm. 3 minutes later. We had a ticket!!!

 

Looking round i tried to find the warden. Nowhere to be seen. Now... i realise that i should have left my girlfriend at the car. This is our error. But being.. honestly... 3 minutes... we thought we would be fine.

 

What angers me... is that the warden must have seen us arrive and lay in wait to deliberately pounce when we stepped away from the car. That isn't 'traffic control', that isn't common sense... it's entrapment of sorts. He could've shouted out. We could've been people who thought it was free after 6pm. Also at the time of issue 6.17pm, it is only 13mins till free parking. The car park was empty! What difference does it make? It isn't like i'm sneaking the last space in town.

 

I'm so angry at the lack of common sense and the clear effort to slap a ticket with disregard for why the system is in place!

 

Anyone think i have a case to void the ticket?

[asmodeus]

Is it a Council car park or one operated by a PPC on behalf of the cinema

 

What is the wording - is it a 'Penalty Charge Notice' or something like 'Parking Charge Notice' or 'Parking Contravention Notice'

Edited November 12, 2009 by asmodeus

[LordLee]

Sadly it is most definitely Council. I'm up a certain creek without a paddle aren't i?

[Lula]

Well what you can do, is send a cheque with a letter stating that you only left the car for a few minutes to get some change, make it a nice letter stating that you will pay but appeal to their sense of fairness. Worked for me!

[green_and_mean]

I'm so angry at the lack of common sense and the clear effort to slap a ticket with disregard for why the system is in place!

 

How would the CEO know you were going to get change? You left the car in a car park without displaying a ticket and without leaving a note or someone by the car if there is a lack of common sense it is probably from you. You would not to expect to eat the food in burger king or see the film without paying first why is parking the car any different? You could have returned with your Burger got in the car and driven off without paying at all for the car parking service provided. If you send in the ticket you bought and it is within a few minutes of the PCN they may show a bit of discretion and cancel otherwise I doubt it.

[Jamberson]

According to your account you were away from the car for three minutes. (Not sure how you can be so precise, but so be it.)

 

For pay & display, there is normally an observation period in play, for these types of situations. Getting change isn't normally sanctioned, as the line is that you should have change ready when you arrive, but still you should have the observation period.

 

Does the PCN show an observation period, along the lines of "The vehicle was observed from XXXX to XXXX"?

 

Phone the local authority as an inetersted motorist and make an innocent enquiry as to what the standard observation period is for pay and display car parks. Based on these two pieces of info, you may well have a basis to appeal.

 

I would generally advise against Lula's comments - either appeal or pay - don't do both. If you pay you are inviting them to keep you cash and disregard any mitigating circumstances - not what you want. It may work sometimes, but if an appeal is going to succeed, it is going to succeed. Don't give them your cash before they have decided!

[Lula]

I sent the letter and the cheque because we were in the wrong, it was only £35 and we had nothing to loose, as it was, the Council were very accommodating, cashed the cheque because they had to and then issued a refund in the amount of the fine, all I am saying is that if you have no grounds to fight, then it is worth a go.

[LordLee]

i forgot to mention i did leave a note (albeit scrawny) in my car indicating i'd gone to get change.

 

i know the times as i was constantly checking my watch as i didn't want to miss the film (which i was late for)

 

the ticket states "The vehicle was observed from 18.17 to 18.17" so that's weird.

 

as for green_and_mean's comments... i agree in hindsight i maybe should've approached the whole situation with the military precision and planning of a major operation... but who thinks that way when in a rush. i have a ticket and am willing to pay it if required. i'm merely asking if there is a case for leniency as it was an accidental situation and the 'CEO', in my opinion, was showing the system for what it is... merely for financial gain not to enforce regualtions for the benefit of the community.

[Jamberson]

If you hadn't sent the cheque your appeal would still have been upheld.

 

Where I used to work, cheques on incoming mail were seperated out before the letters were even read, and banked that same day. The letters were sent away for scanning, and read and dealt with at some point later on, by different staff in a different office.

 

When they see a paid ticket, upholding the appeal means the staff in question (who are generally unenthusiastic, bored, underpayed, and being constantly monitored for productivity) have to take time out to complete refund request forms and send them off to be countersigned, and make adjustments on the account details etc. in order to get the refund underway. It only acted as a disincentive for them to uphold appeals.

 

At the very least, you're without your own cash for a period - there's a thread running at the moment for someone who's been owed a repayment for almost a year, and is still waiting!

[Jamberson]

OK Lord Lee - I suggest then, that you call and enquire what the standard observation period is - let us know what they say. (I'm assuming you were ticketed for not displaying, and not some other contravention.)

 

You may have incriminated yourself with the note - but still, I think an appeal is possible. It could have been an old note, for example.

[Al27]

Generally, sending payment is admission of guilt.

 

Very very few councils will refund the money, and they are under no obligation to.

[green_and_mean]

the 'CEO', in my opinion, was showing the system for what it is... merely for financial gain not to enforce regualtions for the benefit of the community.

 

Complete rubbish if there was a policy of allowing people to get change how long would they wait? Lets say 5 mins, I can bet with certainty that people would then say there was a queue I was only six mins being penalised for a minute is unfair. On yellow lines people know they are prohibited to park but at the same time know a few minutes is given to see if they are loading. This is openly abused with drivers gambling on doing their business then getting back before the CEO arrives and gives them 5 mins observation. If you allowed a grace period to get change the same would happen people would park and gamble they could get to the shops etc and return without paying. Its a car park not a charity, I cannot ride on public transport and pay when I get to the shops as I have no change. Do you think if you were late the cinema would trust you to pay for the tickets on the way out? From personal experience I can tell you 90% of those that claim they have been to get change then get in the car and drive off without buying a ticket its the oldest excuse in the book after 'I'm loading'. In a perfect world people could be trusted but sadly we live in a world were people do anything to avoid paying. I'm taking someone to Court next week for using a forged blue badge to avoid a 20 pence parking charge which just goes to show the lengths people go to save a few pence.

[LordLee]

i agree with you. i don't have time to write everything i'm trying to get across here so it is kinda lost in translation.

 

i'm merely stating my opinion... that the parking attendant must have seen me go check the machine, check my pockets, run to get change and in 3 mins rush over... slap a ticket on... and rush back (there is an office in there). all i'm saying is... in this day and age... common sense seems to be out of the window. in my opinion. are speed cameras a revenue scheme? is changing parking ticket machines to require registration numbersa way of stopping kind souls sharing a ticket if there is time left on it?

 

all a matter of opinion.

 

the law is the law.

 

[Lula]

Well you have a ticket, I would appeal.

[LordLee]

Update i just called the local council. There is no standard observation time in a pay and display car park.

[Lula]

But you did buy a ticket didnt you? if you did I would send a cheque along with a letter and a copy of the ticket saying what happened, you may well be given the benefit of the doubt, you have nothing to loose have you?

[LordLee]

like a fool... when i saw the ticket slapped on my car. i looked for the warden, couldn't find him... then left to see the film.

[Jamberson]

Pity about observation times, but still appeal.

 

Enclose a copy of the p&d ticket you bought (keep original). They don't generally allow drivers to park then go and find change. So if the machine wouldn't accept a coin you had brought with you in readiness, and that's what compelled you to go off for a minute to find a replacement one, you'd have a stronger line of appeal. But if that's not what happened here, it would be morally wrong to make such a claim!

 

I wouldn't go into your view about it all being a racket to make money - just go for a polite letter along the lines of trying your best to get a p+d ticket asap and wouldn't dream of trying to evade charges etc.