Cap1 Blank CCA Should I Or Not

[weeme]

I got the scanner working, i could only get a good copy of the documents by pdf hope its ok.

 

pages 1 & 2 are the front & back of the letter

page 3 is the application form, it is blank on the back

pages 4 & 5 are the front & back of the first page of terms

pages 6 & 7 are the front & back of the second page of terms

pages 8 & 9 are the front & back of the third page of terms

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=15044&stc=1&d=1261226639

File0013.pdf

[Old Cogger]

I got the scanner working, i could only get a good copy of the documents by pdf hope its ok.

 

pages 1 & 2 are the front & back of the letter

page 3 is the application form, it is blank on the back

pages 4 & 5 are the front & back of the first page of terms

pages 6 & 7 are the front & back of the second page of terms

pages 8 & 9 are the front & back of the third page of terms

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=15044&stc=1&d=1261226639

 

 

Pretty Application form aint it? where is the actual agreement with all the prescribed terms>>>

[weeme]

If cap1/dca or I was to take this to court, my argument would be that if it was the agreement then, it is unenforceable due to having no prescribed terms.

 

But i am now not sure about it not having prescribed terms as it makes reference to the credit limit and interest rate under the heading Credit Scoring as follows:

 

""Capital One uses a technique known as 'credit scoring' in deciding whether to open an Account in your name and if so, what credit limit you will be given. Capital One will also use this technique throughout the life of the Agreement to assess your credit limit and the interest rate and other charges to be applied to your Account, all of which may be varied.""

 

What do you think, could some judge latch onto the above and use it to favour cap1.

[weeme]

Now the creditors have won the test case, does this mean the prescribed terms no longer need to be on the signature page.

[keefyboy]

Not at all weemee, the test case was about unfair bank charges, not the enforceablilty of a Credit Card agreement, so this is "Carry On" at the CC companies...

By the way Happy New Year..

[keefyboy]

and as for your question about the agreement, NO that does not make the aggreement enforceable, and enforceable agreement has to have ALL the prescribed Terms and Conditions on a single document, either on the front, or on the back, as long as it referred to on the front. Even then it must contain all the required elements on there, ie, Interest Rates, charges, etc etc. If it doesn't have all the requirements then it is not enforceable

[weeme]

Thanks keefyboy,

 

What do you think my responce to the alleged consumer agreement should be.

 

Do i still dispute as this is not an agreement or do i dispute it because it has no prescribed terms, i am at a loss as to what to write in responce.

[keefyboy]

weemee

I am not ignoring you, just trying to sort out a couple of other bits at home first, then I will try and help you tomorrow..

kb

[weeme]

No problem KB,

 

I have just recieved a letter from cap1 saying my card is now blocked and that i have incurred 2 late payment charges.

 

They also say if i dont pay they will notify the credit bureau, default the account then pass it on for debt recovery.

[keefyboy]

Hi WeeMee

There is template letters in the library on the CAG, read through them and you will find a suitable template for your needs.

They will also try and argue about many other bits and bobs which are not allowed by the rules, but again they totally disregard the laws of this land.

 

When you sign your letter to them, do your proper signature but put a line through it, so they can not copy it and try and use it on an agreement.

I have used this method each time, I put the line through it differently each time, or I would make the line a different colour or from corner to corner, the best thing would be to pay for the CAG's Signatureguard, it only costs I think £4 and it is brilliant idea. You sign your signature onto a template background, and when it is created you will see that the signature is transparant onto the back ground, therefore if anyone trid to copy and paste it, it will show up. Such a simple idea that works brilliantly.

(no I dont get any commision for selling it, I only recommend things that work and are worth their money).

[keefyboy]

WeeMee please bear with me, the reply has only put half of the text I typed on it. so I will have to write it all again.

 

Crap1 are doing to you what they have done to all of us caggers. They have not supplied you with a copy of an enforceble document, this is the bulk standard reply that they send to everyone. The next thing will probably a default notice which will probably not conform to regulations.

They will already have marked your credit rating with the late payments which should not be done whilst the account is in dispute. They will stop you using your account and will ask for the card back cut in two.

 

They will try and pass your account to a debt collection company, but that can be sorted out when they do that, dont worry we are used to these little tricks and will deal with them at that time.

 

Dont forget when you do reply to them that you write at the top of the letter "Account in Dispute"

 

You are not alone, there are many of us on here that are in the same position as you and we will help you as much as we can.

 

KB

[keefyboy]

A couple of other things you have mentioned on your thread, you need to start a complaint to the FSO, as they have said they will not correspond with you with regards to this letter, that is no allowed and the FSO will want to know, they are collecting any information and complaints to the FSO with regards to CAPONE. They have not supplied you with an enforceable agreement, have you SAR'd them ? I will look into library aswell and see if I can find a suitable one for you, but please have a look as well and I can only look at the screen for short periods of time because my sight is very restricted and I must not strain what sight I have.

[weeme]

Thanks for the advice KB,

 

I will search for the letter you refer to and get it sent of. I will also be complaining to the FSO as cap1's blatent disregard to play by the rules makes me mad:mad:.

 

They called yesterday wanting payment, after i told the lady the account was in dispute she said i would need to write to cap1, 3 hours later they called again wanting payment.

[weeme]

Update;

Received a notice of default under section 87(1) today, it's giving me 28 days to pay off the overdue amount.

 

I would appreciate your thoughts on what i need to do now.

[Old Cogger]

Update;

Received a notice of default under section 87(1) today, it's giving me 28 days to pay off the overdue amount.

 

I would appreciate your thoughts on what i need to do now.

 

 

Post it up so we can access if correct omitting all barcodes personal details I would suggest.

[weeme]

Hi, the default notice is below.

Sorry i never posted it earlier but my scanner is playing up.

cdfr.pdf

[weeme]

Hi, cap1 have now issued a statement of default(in pdf below) it came in a 1st class envelope.

What reply if any should i give.

http://debtpdfs.tripod.com/capdef.pdf

[weeme]

Hi, i got a statement of default yesterday and now today i'm receiving calls from a firm called F.T.C what that stands for i have no idea.

 

The guy wanted me to confirm my details to pass security and got all shirty when i refused.

 

Why are these guys calling me?, the account is in dispute.

[DoubtingThomas]

Hi, i got a statement of default yesterday and now today i'm receiving calls from a firm called F.T.C what that stands for i have no idea.

 

The guy wanted me to confirm my details to pass security and got all shirty when i refused.

 

Why are these guys calling me?, the account is in dispute.

 

 

Hi Weeme

It's FPC and they don't know what it stands for themselves. They are an arm of Frederiksons the Debt Collectors - "trading in the style of" - who will be acting on behalf of Cap1. You can expect a letter from them soon threatening to shoot you at dawn etc. They won't give up easily. Don't speak to them on the phone; they use several different numbers to catch you out.

Cheers

DT

[DoubtingThomas]

Hi, cap1 have now issued a statement of default(in pdf below) it came in a 1st class envelope.

What reply if any should i give.

http://debtpdfs.tripod.com/capdef.pdf

 

 

Hi

Find Pinky69's excellent thread on Invalid Default Notices, read through it, and you should find what you need there re Cap1

DT

[DoubtingThomas]

Think also there may be FTC who are part of Capquest. Not sure - someone else may know.

[weeme]

Thank's DT,

 

I looked at Pinky69's and others regarding invalid DN but i now doubt i can go that route as they gave 28 days and then issued the termination.

 

I do think it was invalid because of the maybees contained in it, but how do i counter that?.

 

I think also because the account was in dispute when terminated, maybe a way to counter but again i have no idea how to reply.

[DoubtingThomas]

Thank's DT,

 

I looked at Pinky69's and others regarding invalid DN but i now doubt i can go that route as they gave 28 days and then issued the termination.

 

I do think it was invalid because of the maybees contained in it, but how do i counter that?.

 

I think also because the account was in dispute when terminated, maybe a way to counter but again i have no idea how to reply.

 

 

Hi Weeme

My suggestions, and please bear in mind I am a new poster on CAG!

1) read this post of Pinkys

#10 (permalink) Pinkys thread

 

 

Then go to Rockwells thread and read the following posts

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/246845-capital-1-cca-could.html

#15 (permalink) Bazooka Boo on Rockwells thread, then go to on same thread -

 

From here read right through from 53 to 97

#53 (permalink) Pedross

#55 (permalink) Pinky

#97 (permalink)

 

 

 

It is my opinion overall that the Cap1 DN's are faulty, then they terminated your account, so you may well have a case for unlawful rescission. Doubt if the fact it is in dispute has any relevance as far as Cap1 is concerned.

The links above are directly related to their DN's. (Rockwell and I have exactly the same as you, but are at a different stage, and each case is different.)

Read the letter Pinky sent to them, then decide if you want to give it a shot. Make sure you adapt any info to suit your own case, and that you have nothing to lose.

They have also sent you a complete lack of a CCA.

Hopefully, a more experienced Cagger will also look at your thread again, and advise. You need to be sure you want to take the risk.

Hope this helps a bit

DT

Edited March 27, 2010 by DoubtingThomas

[Desperate Daniella]

DT asked me to come over to this thread. The agreements before 2005 are almost certainly not enforceable as they either won't supply them at all, or they supply what are clearly cut and paste jobs and they get the late payment charges wrong quoting £12 when it was £20 at the time. Remember though that this is what they are clearly stating was "your original agreement."

 

All you can do is avoid the calls, or argue with them on the phone, and keep sending the same letter again and again telling them what needs to be on the agreement to make it enforceable and so on.

 

Do complain to the FOS. They won't do much but it will add to the large number of complaints about capone. I think they were second on the list of the highest number of complaints so we made a concerted effort last year to get them to the top spot.

 

Finally, drop them a note saying you wish to visit their offices to inspect your agreement. Dozens of us have been asking to do this for over a year - see Sunflower's thread Just Recieved A Signed Capital One Agreement - and they would have had coachloads turning up. Sadly they will ignore this very reasonable request.

 

After eight months of this they assigned me to Lowells while it was in dispute and I reported them to FOS, and since then I haven't heard from either capone or Lowells. (I hate saying that about any card company because it usually means I'm tempting fate and I'll get something next week. )

 

DD

[weeme]

Many thanks DT,

 

I'm tempted to send a letter to accept the repudiation of the alleged agreement but after reading through the posts you kindly listed, im having second thoughts as it seems 28 days would cover cap1 time wise.

 

On the other hand the account was in dispute as to whether or not the alleged agreement was enforceable or not. In which case as Pinky69 says they have no right to enforce or claim for moneys relating to the alleged agreement which surely makes the DN faulty.