*** CLAIM FORM HELP - PLEASE *** Natwest / RBS / Triton / Irwin Mitchell / Shoosmiths

[R B 1968]

Hi all,

I’ve now been a CAG’er for almost 2 years and during this time I’ve been very grateful of the help, guidance and assistance (and success !) that I’ve been fortunate enough to benefit from.

Unfortunately, for the first time (in absolutely ages !) I’ve just become a worried man, once again !

The reason for my worry is due to a longstanding, Natwest (joint) Account and specifically the overdraft facility.

This overdraft has gradually crept up to its current level of approx. £4500. The reasons were due to redundancy and a huge amount of bank charges. Despite my desperate plea’s Natwest wouldn’t entertain freezing charges / interest – when in fact all other institutions did, on request !

(At this point I’d like to add I issued a claim for approx. £800 of unfair bank charges, in early 2008 AND superseded this with an additional approx. £200 claim (thus making just over £1000, in total) in the middle part of this year (2009). This remains on hold !)

Over many months Natwest have ‘harassed’ me prior to shifting this to their representatives Triton Credit Services, Irwin Mitchell Solicitors and Shoosmiths. All these institutions have been CCA’ed BUT Irwin Mitchell have now decided to issue proceedings !

I have, today, received a “Claim Form” for Northampton County Court “Bulk Centre”, however, this has been issued specifically to my wife, as opposed to me !

If it was to me I wouldn’t have been so bothered !

I should add that when Triton were CCA’ed DIRECT all I received was a reply from Natwest (not Triton !) returning my £1 postal order AND stating they weren’t able to action as they didn’t hold my signature on record and wanted another form of identification. Furthermore despite me quoting them the EXACT SAME REFERENCE, that they quoted me, they then claimed they couldn’t relate this to any account and therefore wanted me to provide a sort code and account number ! This was the last I heard, from Triton.

Next came Irwin Mitchell who were also CCA’ed DIRECT. Again all I received, initially, was a reply from RBS (not Natwest OR Irwin Mitchell this time !) returning my £1 AND stating they weren’t able to action as they didn’t hold my signature on record and wanted another form of identification. Furthermore despite me quoting them the EXACT SAME REFERENCE, that they quoted me, they also then claimed they couldn’t relate this to any account and therefore wanted me to provide a sort code and account number !

This was (so I thought !) the last I’d hear, from Irwin Mitchell before Shoosmiths then tried. Shoosmiths were CCA’ed too and I still await any reply from them.

Unfortunately, today, the “Claim Form” arrived, from Irwin Mitchell, on behalf of Natwest.

I’m afraid this is the point that I now become ‘snookered’ !

Sorry this post has been so lengthy but PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE can someone advise how I proceed from here – I guess I’m now left with no choice other than to respond to the Claim within the 14 day timescale ?

Do I still have any other options ?

If I defend what is the likelihood of them not actually turning up, to court ?

Can I attend in lieu of my Wife – who I’d like to keep out of this ?

Can anyone offer me any guidance and also does anyone else have any experiences of Irwin Mitchell Solicitors ?

Thanks,

R

[R B 1968]

ANY help, advise or experiences of Natwest / Irwin Mitchell would be gratefully recieved.

 

In the meantime I have 14 days to respond, I believe ?

 

Thank you, in anticipation.

 

R

[GuidoT]

I do not know too much about debt enforcement, but first return the Acknowledgment of Service, then you have 28 days to respond from the date of service, from memory service is 5 days from the date of issue. So you have 28 + 5 days to respond.

 

You generally cannot speak for you wife, only lawyers can. But at the hearing you seek permission from the judge, but she must be present.

[R B 1968]

Thanks GuidoT.

 

Can anyone else help, also, please ?

 

I'm unsure which route toi go down - admit or defend ?

 

Thanks,

 

R

[R B 1968]

Can anyone please advise how I respond to the 6th Nov. dated cout claim ?

 

PLEASE, any help would be much appreciated !

 

Kind regards.

[manchester1]

RB 1968, Whilst i hav not been on the forum for some time i am of the opinion you need to have a red of the thread Getting Them To Reveal Their Vitals. Using CPR 31.14 to Your Advantage.

 

Very informative and will help you in your personal situation where the enemy is not revealing a copy of said agreement

 

Manchester1

[R B 1968]

Thanks Manchester.

 

Just quickly though have I slipped up by making a CCA request for an overdraft - are these covered ?

 

Cheers

[manchester1]

Good question RB 1968 When was the over draft put on your account,or when did you sign for it

 

Manc1

[R B 1968]

Had an overdraft facility since as far back as my statements show - Mid 2002 !

 

The amount varied over the years though - started life as a Natwest CreditZone facility.

 

Intersted in your thoughts.

 

Although Cort docs received today (11th) they're dated 6th Nov so I guess I'm against the clock.

 

Can I represent my wife to avoid her having to appear - very keen to avoid her having to show if possible ! This is one of my main priorities !

 

BIG thanks.

[manchester1]

R B , Reson for the question is that some overdrafts are not covered by the CCA , i suggest you have a look at this thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/192486-court-claim-o-draft.html.

 

I will investigate further and see how we can tackle the problem

 

 

manc1

[R B 1968]

Sorry Manchester but I've had a brief look at this thread and my head is spinning ! This whole court thing is new on me and I'm really not sure where to start ! What, specifically, do you suggest I read !

 

Sorry but I'm struggling a bit here !

 

Is there anyway of keeping my wife away from the court, IF I defend ?

 

Cheers,

 

Rob

[exasperated]

RB

Have a look at this thread Magda is far more advanced than you and it contains lots of pertinent advice.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/219554-help-nawest-taking-us.html

Exasp

[exasperated]

Rob,

and this one by 3tea...

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/217605-halifax-current-account-defective-post2415421.html#post2415421

 

You may consider sending a question by private message to a responder in those threads but it is of course not definite that they will reply. I know what you mean by your head spinning but it worth taking the time to read those threads as you will be aware of who has answered queries the poster has raised which may be relevant to you.

Exasp

[R B 1968]

Thank you exasperated - I'm either very tired or a bit dense BUT I'll try reading these again, when I'm fresh, in the morning.

 

I thought I was reasonably competent until today - now I've gone into panic mode and and dumbfounded !

 

My main concern is my poor wife who knows whats going on BUT I really don't want to burden her with a court appearance for a joint acccount overdraft that I've been fighting for months ! Seems they've given up on me and decided to hit her now !

 

Perhaps I just concede on this one to avoid my wife being scrutinised in the court room - she'll be more confused than I am and I'd hate to put her through it !

 

I'm amazed we're being chased when they've already acknowlened my claim suggesting almost 25% is made up of charges !

 

Cheers for your help,

 

R

[R B 1968]

By the way and for information the Particulars of Claim read EXCACTLY as here:

 

By agreement(s) entered into between the

Claimant and Defendant, the Defendant has

failed to pay the sum of 4***.**. The Claiman

t has requested payment but the Defendant h

as failed to pay the full sum demanded. The

Claimant claims the sum of 4***.** and in

terest under s.69 of the County Courts Act 1

984 at a rate of 8% per annum from 05/11/2009

until judgment or sooner payment. Costs. The

claim does not include issues under the H

uman Rights Act 1998. The Claimant has compli

ed with Sections III and IV of Practic

e Direction - Pre-Action Conduct of the Civi

l Procedure Rules.

 

Can anyone please offer any help ?

 

Thanks

[R B 1968]

Any help would be gratefully received. Thank you.

[R B 1968]

Can anyone please offer any help with my P O C ?

 

Thank you.

[R B 1968]

Bump......... please

[freakyleaky]

I have flagged this for the rest of the Site Team. Hopefully someone wuill be along soon.

 

Are these POC's for mcol??

[R B 1968]

Thanks freaky.

 

Excuse my ignorance but mcol ?

 

Regards,

 

R

[freakyleaky]

Sorry I should have read the thread first. I can see it is Money Claim On Line.

 

Where did you get thses poc's from RB?

Edited November 12, 2009 by freakyleaky
Spelling

[BeauBrummie]

Hi R B

 

The Money Claim Online process is straightforward, and you should be able to access via the internet.

 

What is the date of the claim?

 

First thing that needs to happen within (19 days) of the date of the claim is that you can "ackowledge service" of the claim and ask for more time to submit a defence and/or counter claim if you wish.

 

You need to read the threads previosly advised to on page one of this thread to give you some guidance regarding admitting the claim or defending.

 

I was of the opinion that overdrafts were not covered by the CCA but I may be wrong.

 

You still have some time to decide what to do, and there is alot of help available on these forums, advice is obviously given freely and it may be that the people with the experience in your type of case may not be online at the moment--but they may well be in the next couple of days so please dont panic, but do read up on your type of case.

 

Beau

[R B 1968]

hi guys and thanks for your messages:

 

Freaky - The POC's that I have added, to this thread, were taken directly from the "Claim Form", as received in yesterdays post.

 

Hope this helps ?

 

Ta,

 

R

[R B 1968]

Hi guys and thanks for your messages:

 

Beau -The date of the claim is 6th Nov. This was received yesterady (11th Nov)

 

I acknowledged service, on-line, earlier today (12th). I have printed the 'receipt paperwork' off.

 

Having already CCa'ed I am now also of the opinion that this was in vain, due to it being an overdraft - but am now confused / concerned.

 

The basic gist is that the claim id for approx 4.5k and I've long since issued a claim for approx. 1k of charges - albeit to Natwest where it had been acknowledged and presently lies (n ot proceede with court claim !) !

 

I wonder where to go from here ?

 

I guess I now need to sebd some sort of CPR letter, do I ?

 

Can anyone enlightenen me about Irwin Mitchell and their likely course of action, from others experiences ?

 

Cheers,

 

R

[MAGDA]

Hi RB, both myself and R&b are defending claims for overdrafts (mind also with Nwest). You won't get a CCA, because they have part V exemption from the Act which means that there isn't any signed agreement. However, in order to comply with the Determination for overdrafts they need to have advised you before or on conclusion of the overdraft in writing (so should be a letter of some sort) of the details relating to the O/D and how to terminate. Also, Notice should have been served under section 76(1) and 98 (1) of termination of the overdraft. Did they do this? Nwest tend to send (or claim to send) a DN, which isn't the correct procedure for overdrafts in any case.

 

You need to send a CPR 18 request for the information you need, including full set of statements if you don't have them. You can also submit a counterclaim as there are obviously charges on this account, although it is better to state in your defence that you have the right to equitable set off, which means you don't pay any fee as you will for a counterclaim. So that's probably the best option.

 

16.6

 

Where a defendant –

(a) contends he is entitled to money from the claimant; and

(b) relies on this as a defence to the whole or part of the claim,

the contention may be included in the defence and set off against the claim, whether or not it is also a Part 20 claim

 

 

Details of the Determination are:

THE DETERMINATION

 

The Determination (which is signed by the Director of Fair Trading) is made under section 74(3) of the Act. I set it out in full:

"1. Under the powers conferred upon me by Sections 74(3) and (3A) and 133 of the Consumer Credit 1974, I, the Director General, being satisfied that it would not be against the public interest to do so, hereby revoke with effect from 1st February 1990 the Determination made by me in respect of Section 74(1)(b) and dated 3 November 1983 and now determine that with effect from 1st February 1990 Section 74(1)(b) shall apply to every debtor-creditor agreement enabling the debtor to overdraw on a current account, under which the creditor is a bank.

 

 

2. This Determination is made subject to the following conditions:-

 

 

(a) that the creditor shall have informed my Office in writing of his general intention to enter into agreements to which the Determination will apply;

(b) that where there is an agreement between a creditor and a debtor for the granting of credit in the form of an advance on a current account, the debtor shall be informed at the time or before the agreement is concluded:

- of the credit limit, if any,

- of the annual rate of interest and the charges applicable from the time the agreement is concluded and the conditions under which these may be amended,

of the procedure for terminating the agreement;

and this information shall be confirmed in writing.

© that where a debtor overdraws his current account with the tacit agreement of the creditor and that account remains overdrawn for more than 3 months, the creditor must inform the debtor in writing not later than 7 days after the end of that 3 month period of the annual rate of interest and charges applicable.

3. In this Determination the terms 'creditor' and 'debtor' shall have the meanings assigned to them respectively by Section 189 of [the Act]. The term 'bank' includes the Bank of England and banks within the meaning of the Bankers' Books Evidence Act 1879 as amended

 

Hope this helps, Magda

Edited November 12, 2009 by MAGDA