Help with Welcome Finance

[beyondhope]

These are the exact reasons I was leaning towards court to get it deemed unenforceable once and for all but its seemed to snowball hence having such a long list of things that are wrong with it I guess the question is do I waste a year of my life waiting for the FOS who appear to be up the butt of welcome at the moment or do i just find the information I need and take it straight to court (this isnt a question as I wouldnt expect anyone to tell me what to do)

[cab1ne]

and it costs you zilch, it costs them £500 (regardless)

 

cab

[beyondhope]

This is a very good point as I guess when the FOS have finished if im still not happy I can go the court route anyway.....and Im assuming the FOS wouldnt look favourably on repossession whilst account in dispute either...

[cab1ne]

These are the exact reasons I was leaning towards court to get it deemed unenforceable once and for all but its seemed to snowball hence having such a long list of things that are wrong with it I guess the question is do I waste a year of my life waiting for the FOS who appear to be up the butt of welcome at the moment or do i just find the information I need and take it straight to court (this isnt a question as I wouldnt expect anyone to tell me what to do)

 

no problem.

just remember, if it is good advice you recieve or even if it is bad advice, we learn from both.

 

i was fortunate.

the fos took 2 years to handle my complaint and the creditor just shut up and did diddly squat. but now 3 years later all types of sh*t has hit the fan.

 

"BRING IT ON"

 

cab

[beyondhope]

haha good things come to those that wait i guess thank you so much for all your help cab you have been most helpful i shall mull it over tonight and make my final decision one way or another tomorrow.....thank you again consider your scales tipped

[beyondhope]

they dont need to take that long with me welcome will be dead in the water by then who will I have to moan about then!!!

[cab1ne]

This is a very good point as I guess when the FOS have finished if im still not happy I can go the court route anyway.....and Im assuming the FOS wouldnt look favourably on repossession whilst account in dispute either...

 

"Ahh" the penny is dropping.

even though they are pretty useless they do have thier purpose.

 

people like us come on here and pop loads of questions and we start to build up a minefield of information and we learn something new everyday. but there is one thing i have learned big style on this forum, when them court papers drop on your door mat from MCOL, these people bend over backwards for you, so dont go into the panic

 

cab

[welshperson3]

Hi welshperson3

 

this is the list I have of what is wrong and along with what regs etc I think the issue breaks..FOS arent interested until you get a final response due to their caseload this would be impossible for me as they arent acknowledging ANY of my complaints let alone issuing a response. To defend in court they will have to come and repo the car first and whilst Im not reliant on keeping it as a 'gift' id rather stop that happening in the first place if that makes sense so my only path appears to be to start court action which is why im asking questions as i want to be 300% sure of myself before even thinking about it. Especially as im not really in a financial position to get anyone to advise or represent me as my husband lost his job last week and legal aid im informed work on the last 3 months when we were over the threshold.

 

The list:

*Original agreement total amount of credit £8103.00 includes insurances, rewrite agreement total amount of credit £8953.00 no insurances. difference verbally stated as acceptance fee and missed payments. Surely missed payments already included not additional they are arrears not extra lending?! Acceptance fee listed seperately as £195 in addition to the extra added so shouldnt be added twice?

***This was ignored when asked

 

* On rewrite total payable is £12441.89.....payments total £15552.00

***difference of £3110.11 overpayment from total payable

*when figures put through apr calculator total is £21827.90.

***Substantial shortfall in Welcomes favour as amount paid would leave a huge sum owing (£6275.90) ARE YOU SATING YOU CAN PROVE THIS WITH DOCUMENTS

 

* Reconstructed agreement not fully completed, total payable shows as less than starting amount for credit, no signatures, no dates

***Seems figures were made up to make it add to the correct payment total

 

* Account placed in dispute 27/11/09 received 28/11/09 continued to ignore communication and placed unlawful charges on account, issued default notice, termination notice

***Shouldn’t collection activity cease whilst in dispute? I have proof of how ‘unjustified’ charges are added to accounts ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE IS SHAKY FOR YOU AS THEY WILL ARGUE THAT THEY COMPLIED WITH CCA REQUEST. LOOK INTO UNLAWFUL CHARGES AND THE POSSIBILITY OF A UNFAIR RELATIONSHIP

* Default notice is defective as states 14 days not a numerical date .

***CCA1974(amended 1983) 88(1) IF THAT IS THE ONLY PROBLEM ON THE DN THEN IT IS A WEAK ARGUMENT

* Termination notice states without prejudice - are they terminating or not?

*** Unlawful recission or threat? CANT RELY ON THAT IN COURT SO ITS A NON STARTER

 

* Subject Access Request incomplete doesnt provide original agreement or any related documentation, no correspondence shown bar one letter never received by me

*** no response YOU CAN START COURT PROCEEDINGS TO MAKE THEM COMPLY

 

* Rewrite had no cooling off period wasnt even given opportunity to read through was unaware it was 120month agreement until copies received in October 2009 received telephone call within 2hrs agreement completed no explanation and no copies received was so quick as office threatened immediate repossession if rewrite not undertaken verbal not written threat and not the first time

***Under duress to sign agreement LOOK AT UNFAIR RELATIONSHIP IT IS UNFAIR TO FORCE YOU TO BORROW MORE TO PAY OFF FIRST LOAN AND

IRRESPONSIBLE LENDING

 

* Insurances written on initial agreement not shown on rewrite but appear to be included in the total and spread over 120 months when they were month policies.

*** invalid under CCA 1974? THERE IS ALSO A CASE WERE A WOMAN GOT WHOLE OF HER CREDIT CARD BILL (8K) WRITTEN OFF JUST BECAUSE THEY ADDED INSURANCE AGAIN UNFAIR RELATIONSHIP

 

* Insurances as shown on initial agreement spread over months when products for 24 months .

***miscalculation on CCA regulated agreement? AS ABOVE

 

* Have evidence of commission payments to welcome elite brokers I dont have one in my Subject Access Request

*** Have proof they charge commission so why isn’t it shown in my SAR or mentioned at time of agreement? CAN YOU PROVE DEFINITIVELY THAT YOU PAID THIS. DOCUMENTARY PROOF

 

• Original agreement should be headed
  

Hire Purchase Agreement regulated by Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

***CCA Amendments 1983 schedule 1

 

• Modified agreement should be headed
  

Agreement modifying a Hire Purchase Agreement and regulated by Consumer Credit Act 1974 I DO NOT KNOW BUT WILL THIS INVALIDATE THE AGREEMENT WRONG WORDING DOSE NOT NECESSARILY INVALIDATE

 

 

*** CCA Amendments 1983 schedule 1

 

 

 

FIND ALL YOUR STRONG POINTS RESURCH THEM ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT THEM. CUT OUT THE WAFEL IT WILL CONFUSE YOU.

[cab1ne]

haha good things come to those that wait i guess thank you so much for all your help cab you have been most helpful i shall mull it over tonight and make my final decision one way or another tomorrow.....thank you again consider your scales tipped

 

thankyou,

even if its somebody to shout at or a good old fashioned winge "no problem"

 

cab

[cab1ne]

FIND ALL YOUR STRONG POINTS RESURCH THEM ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT THEM. CUT OUT THE WAFEL IT WILL CONFUSE YOU.

 

short, sweet, to the point, you can't beat it

 

cab

[welshperson3]

secret commission ; a hard one to prove

 

DN ; people on here have lost with a lot more wrong than just a number of days

 

account in dispute ; no go with the Manchester case just finished

 

non compliance with SAR ; Is a separate issue all together

[welshperson3]

strong points to look at

 

charges

loan agreement

unfair relationship

 

SAR NON COMPLIANCES STRONG BUT IRELEVENT TO THE REST

[beyondhope]

thankyou,

even if its somebody to shout at or a good old fashioned winge "no problem"

 

cab

 

Thank you

[beyondhope]

strong points to look at

 

charges

loan agreement

unfair relationship

 

SAR NON COMPLIANCES STRONG BUT IRELEVENT TO THE REST

 

 

Thank you very much welshperson (havent quoted all posts but all were helpful) I shall shorten my list to contain only the points related to the above.

[beyondhope]

Ok Postggj previously mentioned that he was going for unfair relationship.....reading up on it ive found this:

 

 

 

Section 140A of the 1974 Act (as amended) provides that a court may determine that the relationship between a lender and a borrower arising out of a credit agreement (or the agreement taken with any related agreement) is unfair to the borrower because of:

• any of the terms of the credit agreement or a related agreement
  
• the way in which the lender has exercised or enforced its rights under the credit agreement or a related agreement, or
  
• any other thing done (or not done) by or on behalf of the lender either before or after the making of the credit agreement or a related agreement.
  

(taken from OFT website)

 

Ok going from my list above...

 

APR being a prescribed term is wrong see point 1 in unfair relationship

Exercised their rights to complete agreement wrongly, exercised collection rights wrongly see point 2

DN/Termination/Pressure to sign see point 3

 

 

Thats just a 2 second look....

 

 

moved up for my own reference

 

also header of original wrong- prescribed term point 1

under duress to sign rewrite - point 2

not responding to complaints - point 3

 

*please correct me if you feel im wrong on anything im just thinking outloud before doing fos form*

Edited February 15, 2010 by beyondhope
more info

[beyondhope]

can you believe it!! i actually DO have GAP and Mechanical breakdown!!

 

Mechanical breakdown active until october 2010 which would be right as that is 2 years.

 

GAP must have been a 5 yr policy on a 4 yr agreement as it runs for another 4 years!

 

All documents being sent out!

 

Found this by calling direct group

[pears23]

My experience with Direct group is that all they will send you is policy wording, even when I sent a SAR. I had to write to them again to pointing out what information I believed to be missing and to get specifics such as dates, monies paid, you need to ask direct, straight to point questions...before I got a half decent reply!

 

good luck

[beyondhope]

I was just surprised to find we had a policy at all seens as the rewrite doesnt even mention it and the person dealing with it implied all insurances were cancelled! Ill see what they send back and then start with the questions thanks for the advice

[beyondhope]

well the documents came through from direct today! that was quick phone call was around 3pm yesterday!!

 

policy schedule on wf headed paper and policy wording for mechanical breakdown and gap

[beyondhope]

After some fab advice here:

Invalid Default Notices - Page 72 - The Consumer Forums

 

all I can say is....

 

 

GOTCHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ozzywizard]

Just read through that thread (well not all just the parts that pertain to you lol) exelent work Beyond, glad your on top of it and you know were your up too and seems like your way ahead of them .

[beyondhope]

Thanks Ozzy - immobiliser already bought and on its way much nicer to have to defend in court I feel takes the pressure off abit at least

[ozzywizard]

You have allready bought the imobilizer so a bit late but if you knew somone who knows about cars they could just put a secret cut off switch on it. cost about 2 pound for the switch.

[cab1ne]

You have allready bought the imobilizer so a bit late but if you knew somone who knows about cars they could just put a secret cut off switch on it. cost about 2 pound for the switch.

 

what is the imobilizer or cut off switch going to do:confused: it will not stop them from taking the car because they can "lift" it.

 

cab

[beyondhope]

This was my other thought cab although they would literally have to lift it as 99% of the time its wedged between 2 cars