Only reply to a contested pnc was a baillif at the door

[Tomofthenight]

Whilst working for volunterally on a free music festival, supported by our local council, during August last year, I had to visit the site beforehand to do a survey for the stage erection, this was done two weeks before the festival, and as I had to unload surveying equipment, and I had no official permit untill the following week, I put a notice in both the front and back window describing the work I was doing and the position of the survey. I was served a pcn, which I then appealed to the local council to have quashed.

I heard no more about it untill last week, some 14 months after, when a baillif was at my door with a bill for £363.16, and a threat that next time he calls, it will be with a police presense and a van for removal of goods. I have no break down of costs, and have had no prior communications from either the council, or baillifs (Marstons). can any-one advise me please.

Edited November 9, 2009 by Tomofthenight

[green_and_mean]

Ring the Council initially and ask for comfirmation they sent out a charge certificate and order for recovery, to what address and on on what date. When you get the information come back for further advice.

[lamma]

and If the bailiff calls in the meantime 1) do not open the door under any circumstances or have any open windows (or doors) and 2) record all conversations - through the letter box if needed. Bailiff have been known to 'misrepresent reality' to get their cash. From your post he may well have turned up with no OfR so had no cause to be there. always ask them for a copy of the warrant. do not open the door to get it. tell him to post through the letter box.

[Tomofthenight]

I've just spoke to the council offering to make payment for the original ticket, only to be told that they won't accept payment because they will be liable for charges from Marstens. They told me that there is no law that says they have to accept payment, I said there is probably no law says they can't. I asked at least 4 times if they were refusing payment for the ticket, but got no real answer, except that I should try contacting Marstens to see what offers they make me, although I believe there offer would be all the money paid or lose my goods. I asked if anything had been sent to me, and if so could they provide any proof of posting, to be told that all correspondence is sent first class, and the council take that as legal proof of sending. I will now contact Nottingham to give them a late witness statement, and see if that gets me anywhere. As for the baillif, my worry is that my youngest answers the door while I am not here.

[Jamberson]

The guy at the Council is right - they can't accept payment now it has been passed to the bailiff. I presume that he confirmed what G+M asked above - that the Order for Recovery went to the correct name and address, within the last year?

 

If it did you are unfortunately in a weaker position. They don't have to provide proof of posting let alone proof of receipt your end. You can try and file your late witness statement (it's Northampton by the way, not Nottingham) but it will probably be rejected if the addresses match. If so, you're pretty much out of options I'm afraid.

 

Give it a go, and if it fails, you'd be best off negotiating with the bailiff as there's no other way out of these charges - unless there's some serious impropriety going on, which it doesn't sound like.

[lamma]

hold on. an N244 would reset events to the NTO and the council would have to eat the bailiff's charges. as no papers were received between appealing the PCN snd the bailiff turning up a personal N244 at a local court in front of a real judge should see the N244 accepted.

[Jamberson]

If an N244 is likely to succeed then yes, that's the way forward after the stat dec is rejected (assuming it will be rejected). How likely would it be to succeed though?

[lamma]

never known one to fail in these circumstances.

[green_and_mean]

I've just spoke to the council offering to make payment for the original ticket, only to be told that they won't accept payment because they will be liable for charges from Marstens. They told me that there is no law that says they have to accept payment, I said there is probably no law says they can't. I asked at least 4 times if they were refusing payment for the ticket, but got no real answer, except that I should try contacting Marstens to see what offers they make me, although I believe there offer would be all the money paid or lose my goods. I asked if anything had been sent to me, and if so could they provide any proof of posting, to be told that all correspondence is sent first class, and the council take that as legal proof of sending. I will now contact Nottingham to give them a late witness statement, and see if that gets me anywhere. As for the baillif, my worry is that my youngest answers the door while I am not here.

 

Good to see you ignored my advice completely.

[Tomofthenight]

Sorry green and mean, I did phone the council with the intention of asking for the information you said, but I first had to get past a foot soldier who would only say "I'm sorry, but it is in the hands of the baillifs now so there is nothing we can do", and when I questioned about paying them direct, she said I need to speak to my supervisor (name known) but never put me on hold, so I could hear her ask the supervisor what she should tell me, to be told, tell him we can't accept a payment, cos that'll mean we will have to pay Marstons. Then when I finally got put on to the supervisor, I was already annoyed at what I had heard, and my train of thought had been diverted.

Didn't mean to ignore anyone's advice, as it is gratefully recieved, not only by myself, but by friends that are in similar positions.

TOTN

[tomtubby]

Whilst working for volunterally on a free music festival, supported by our local council, during August last year, I had to visit the site beforehand to do a survey for the stage erection, this was done two weeks before the festival, and as I had to unload surveying equipment, and I had no official permit untill the following week, I put a notice in both the front and back window describing the work I was doing and the position of the survey. I was served a pcn, which I then appealed to the local council to have quashed.

I heard no more about it untill last week, some 14 months after, when a baillif was at my door with a bill for £363.16, and a threat that next time he calls, it will be with a police presense and a van for removal of goods. I have no break down of costs, and have had no prior communications from either the council, or baillifs (Marstons). can any-one advise me please.

 

You need to complete an Out of Time Statutory Declaration. (PE 7 & PE9).

 

This will FREEZE al bailiff action.

 

You will need to tick the box on the PE9 to confirm that you are applying on the grounds that you had appealed within the correct time frame and that you did not receive a formal rejection.

You need to telephone the Traffic Enforcement Centre on 08457 045 007 and they will e-mail the forms to you.

 

When you are on the phone to them can you ensure that you ask them to confirm to you what address appears on the warrant. This may be an old address etc.

 

On the PE7 you will need to state WHY you are applying late.

 

You need to say something along the following lines:

 

I appealed this PCN within the specified time and did not receive a response. I therefore assumed that my appeal had been accepted. I did not receive any further statutory notices and was shocked to received notification from a firm of bailiffs that they were enforcing a warrant of execution.

 

If you have any query, then please feel free to PM me.

[Tomofthenight]

Thanks tomtubby, I called TEC and they e-mailed me TE7 & TE9 which I have just filled out in the way you suggested, and I have Faxed them back asking them to confirm receipt to me by e-mail.

I will wait and see what happens, and let you know.

Also I need to say that finding this forum has enlightened me greatly to our rights, and I am now looking to reclaim fees from Marstons for a previous visit where the debt was mine, but on only finding my wife at home, she was forced to borrow money to pay there and then. I have started a new thread on this, but I thought I'd mention it here to see if you can give any advice.

Thanks

TOTN

[Tomofthenight]

Well I have just called TEC to ask if I needed to send the original doc that I signed, but they are happy with the Fax version, and they told me that my application is already being processed and they have e-mailed the local authority to inform them of this, and so that should stop the wolves knocking at my door until my appeal has been dealt with.

That's a big sigh of relief, although I won't be letting my guard down any, having read many posts on this site.

I'll be back with more when I find out what happens.

Thanks all for the help, I will be donating to keep this site going for all the rest of us treated with the least respect, by those with the least morals.

TOTN

[lamma]

make sure the LA has called off the bailiff - don't assume they will do it.

[Tomofthenight]

Thanks lamma, never thought about that, so I've called LA, they said they had received confirmation, and are now going to call bailiffs.

Lucky I caught them this time on a Friday.

Bottle of vino coming my way this evening for being a good boy.

[lamma]

they 'said' - did you ask for a confirming e-mail of the fact after the event ?

[Tomofthenight]

OK lamma, I can see the cork going back in the bottle, I still have a lot to learn about these situations, but can't get back in touch with LA till Monday now.

I will get them to send confirmation, then take cork back out of the bottle.

[lamma]

phone calls are meaningless - especially to and from councils. be ready in case bailiff turns up at the weekend. keep doors and windows closed and locked, do not open door, record everything said and done - video and sound.

[Tomofthenight]

As I said earlier, I won't let my guard down, and I don't mean for this particular case, I mean having spent days looking through this forum at the different threads, (problems we all face everyday) I can see that there are many situations that I had not even considered.

How times are a changing.

We need this site, to help those who need help most.

Go CAG.

[JimmySpangle]

I hate to throw petrol on the fire, but when are people going to realise that someone saying they will do something over the phone has absolutely no weight in law as it is simply hearsay. Get it faxed, e-mailed or sent by post. Go and get a letter in person, but never, ever trust anyone to do what they say they will by phone.

 

Once in writing you have ammunition for the bailiffs, police and courts.

[Tomofthenight]

I called LA again today, asked them for confirmation, in written form, that bailiff had been contacted by them,was told TEC would contact me in due course.

 

I told her I needed confirmation from them, so that should the bailiff turn up again, I wouldn't be charged for a further visit.

 

I was told I would be e-mailed when the supervisor could find time, and finally received e-mail just before close of business.

 

It does make me wonder if bailiff had been contacted Friday, or after my call this morning.

 

TOTN

[Tomofthenight]

Ok quick update,

I have just received an e-mail from the LA saying that they will not oppose the granting of my late witness statement.

This will cancel the debt recovery process, but the original £70 charge will still stand, and I have been given a further 28 days to pay.

I'll pay the £70, start of January, but I am just glad that now I don't have the added worry of Marstons and their inflated charges to the tune of £361.

Just shows, it's always worth listening to the advice given on this site, and if you think you've been wronged, contest.

TOTN.

[Jamberson]

Nice one. Don't forget you have a right of appeal against the £70 PCN.

[lamma]

yes, it will revert to the NTO stage so post up the paperwork and let us have a look !

[Tomofthenight]

Sorry lamma, I don't have any paperwork, not even the original PCN, that's how I got into this mess, I only have the e-mails between LA and myself.

It was never my intention to duck out of paying, I thought it had been contested on my behalf, but it was obviously rejected, and once I pay, I shall be seeking recompence from the event company I was volunteering for. But once again I thank you all for your input/advice.

TOTN.