multiple debts with council

[zodiac78]

not sure if this is right forum but i am sure someone will direct me if it is not. my step daughter has got herself in loads of debt and i said because council is god she will have to pay them back but these debts are from 2003 and she has been trying to pay them back bit by bit but her circumstances are always changing and i think they are getting a bit tired of giving her holidays from her debts. I asked her for her paper work on all debts the trouble is she has four debts with the council each with different departments one of the debts is £8,0000 + and she doesn't even have a clue what it is for. My question is this does she write to the council and ask for a Subject Access Request so we can see what the debts are for as two of the debts are with a baliff company now or do we just write to the council asking for details about each debt and do we write to just one person if so whom? or do we write individual to each department she is dealing with including another letter to the baliff. Any help on this matter will be appreciated as she is getting phone calls on her mobile from the baliffs and i have told her not to talk to them and to tell them she is putting a proposal of payment in writting to them but she talks to them unless i take the phone off her when i am with her. thanks

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

Bump

[dx100uk]

if it council then this must be council tax.

 

dating back to 2003 they must have been very nice to her for it to go on this long without it ending more seriously than this.

 

you really need get to the bottom of what all the debts are about by reading the paperwork and posting up your conclusions.

 

the most pressing issue is that of the bailiffs involvement

 

see if you can workout how far this has gone & if this is for the current year, if they have entered the house etc etc.

 

ideally, if she 'can' pay something toward the debts with the bailiffs then i'd be inclined to do it direct to the council via an agreement with them, that way you will get the bailiffs of her back.

 

we really need more info.

dx

[zodiac78]

thanks for getting back to me some of it is council tax but others are housing benefit and think one is for eviction from her council property. Think the council have been pretty lienent with her so far cos they know how gullable she is with her x. it's all very complicated she had council house her x moved in he was working they didn't decalre it and then she moved out but left him in the house which he wrecked when she had gone.

 

She was first took to court apparently according to council letter in 2005 for council tax but the letter isn't till 27th november 2007 so that's confusing in itself as she hasn't got any letter previouse to this. they set the payments for £33.00 a week which she defaulted on and it got given to rossendales she has paid this one off.

 

The second one was also for council tax which council also took her to court for on august 2007 and the letter came with the above letter on 27th november 2007. She is still paying this one and in default hence another letter she brought to me saying a van would be attending the mimimum charge for this is £110.00 as a bailiff had spoke to her mum in september 2009 as all her mail goes to mums house due to the fact that she still gets involved with her x ( who cause all this debt in first place ) Mum never signed anything but he left his phone number and when she got in touch with him the payments were set for £33.10 a week way beyond her means as she still had further two debts with the council both set at £40.00 a month and she a single mum and at the time was out of work.

 

Hence the default again because debt repayments were too high. She is now living on her own with her child and got a job but awaiting childtax credit and working tax credit award. Out of the two remaining debts with the council one has been passed over to rossendales wich is Sundry not council tax.

So far i have sent letters to 2 letters to rossendales pointing out her change of circumstances and a proposal for payment of £5.00 per week on both debts held by them until 3rd jan 2010 when she will have got her benefits and be able to make another written proposal. To the Governing Bailliff i have used one of the templet letters on pointing out that she knows her rights and pricing for visits ect and there has been a proposal submitted and attached that letter to it.

 

 

The council i have wrote for an explination of what the sum of £8,0000+ is for as next to the council it does not say anthing not council tax or sundry it's blank. think this one is something to do with eviction order and damage to the property ( which council know it was not her but because it was all in her name had no choice but to charge her for ) I have also wrote a proposal for £5.00 a week for this until her benefits are sorted out and she can do an accurate incoming and outgoings

 

 

hope you understand all this so far. Rossendales have been quite patcient with her the same as the council and i have put that in the letters as well but pointed out to her that she must stick to the repayment plan but looks like x is lurking around in the back ground again so think i may be waisting my time.

Edited November 13, 2009 by zodiac78

[dx100uk]

ok this is diff to read

please hit the return button a few time to break it up in the sentences....

 

so when was the last liabillity order?

 

to get it clear in yours and our minds

 

why not phone the court and get a breakdown of LEGAL proceedings that HAVE taken place from them.

 

it reads to me that the bailiff might well be 'out of date' so to speak.

 

dx

[zodiac78]

Sorry i haven't got back to you recently been hetic. Thanks for looking though.

 

Last liability order was for nov 2007. which Rosssendales have been dealing with.

 

The new one with Rossendales passed to them in September 09 from council has no liability order with it hasn't been to court

The last one for huge amount is still with council.

 

Another reason i haven't got back to you is that we are waiting for the response to the new payment proposals i sent out to them all. Nothing yet on that front but the bailiffs haven't rang her either or been hassling her. hopefully they will accept the payment plans until she gets her benefits and then we will send them new proposals in January if they don't i am going to ask for them to be taken back to the council as she is Vunerable ( single parent )

 

Busy fighting my own battles Water Bill that isn't my partners cos he never lived there at the dates stated on the bill. IPP for a car that he stupidly brought in 2007 that is stood in drive way rotting cos the damn thing is falling apart and won't pass mot without another grand being thrown at it. Think my post office love me with the amount of recorded letters i keep sending out a week

[hallowitch]

you mention Rosssendales charging a van fee to charge this they must have a walking possession agreement do you know if they have this

 

bailiffs are notorious for charging fees they should not i would send a letter to Rosssendales and ask for a screenshot of her account this will give you all charges added to her account

 

I would also send the council a subject access request to see what she has been charged for

[zodiac78]

No they haven't got a walking possession agreement they spoke to her mum and he left a number for my step daughter to ring them, that's why i got confussed when letter said bringing a van but her mum said she never signed anything and explained that my step daughter does not own anything in the house.

 

I am waiting for reply to her payment proposals then going to hit them with screen shot letters find out if she has been over charged for him turning up on doorstep ect.

 

will post again soon as i know what there replys are

thanks for helping

[zodiac78]

ok step daughter came round with replys from Rossendales tonite.

First one said it will not agree to the amount of £5.00 a week and please send a expenditure sheet, wage slips in and pay £31.00 a week. Already pointed out to them she is awaiting several benefit to be awarded.

 

Second one points out that it is there sister company Rossandales Debt Collect that is dealing with second account so need to write a letter to them. The address on bottom of her notice letter is the same as Rossandales Bailiffs and it was addressed to the person at the bottom of her last letter. ( bit obviouse here they haven't passed it on for her ) know now should have put it's in your best intrest to past this letter on ect

 

third letter is screen shot of her accounts held with Rossendales and she has been charged twice on both accounts for bailliff visits. I know this is wrong although there fees of £24.50 and £18.00 for second visit is correct it has been charged on both accounts in one visit.

 

She has also been charged a fee of 50p for the pleasure of paying at a paypoint her local post office for each payment. Suppose that's not unduly unfair.

 

Still haven't heard from council about the £8,000+ debt so i am going to SAR them mid week if still not heard anything.

 

thanks for helping

[zodiac78]

Help needed please with this one now. council have responded. Rossendales debt collection have passed bk the debt to the council so the council now hold two of her debts out of the three again.

 

They responded with a letter dated 11/11/09 postmark 12/11/09 but not recieved until 16/11/09

It says while i sympathise with your financial situation. I have no option at this time other than to commence with court proceedings to protect the council's position and this will mean that you will incur further cost which will therfore increase your debt.

 

A letter from courts dated 11/11/09 (northampton county court ) miles away no way she will be able to get here to defend also came through the door for both accounts now held with council.

 

Please can someone advise what to do now ? She still hasn't heard anything from benefits about her awards on child tax credit and working tax credit and therefore can still offer payment plans until this is sorted out but is willing to pay £5.00 to all her creditors until an expenditure can be determined.

 

Also when looking at screen shot council sent about the £8,000+ debt i see there is £1063.78 for admin alone. do i SAR them see where the hell this amount came from ! oh and vat £1427.24

 

Do i defend part of the claim on the two accounts now filed with the court or just ignore the court form for now

 

Just to update with other account have sent a templet letter to Rossendales re: charges and a copy to the council. they still not accepting her payment plan either as it is a liability order on this one don't c what much she can do

[hallowitch]

send a PM to lets fight bailiffs and ask him to look at your thread as a matter of urgency

 

A letter from courts dated 11/11/09 (northampton county court ) miles away no way she will be able to get here to defend also came through the door for both accounts now held with council

 

she should be able to get this transfered to her local court i don't know the procedure for dong this but I'm sure others will

 

 

Also when looking at screen shot council sent about the £8,000+ debt i see there is £1063.78 for admin alone. do i Subject Access Request them see where the hell this amount came from ! oh and vat £1427.24

 

yes send the council a subject access request they should provide all information regarding her tenancy with them

[zodiac78]

Thank u so much hallowitch u are great. Will keep you updated thanks

[lets fight bailiffs]

Ok to start with the large amount that has gone to northampton is just a county court order and will be due to the damage to the council house for this debt they have no power if you do not let them in as there is no criminal offence for not paying county court orders so although is the largest amount this one is the last one to worry about, at this momment in time do not make any agreement to pay this.

 

the main thing to deal with here is the council tax although in the first instance is not criminal there is more power to collect this debt.

 

Remenber if they have not been in your home then they have no right to force re-entry, i would let this go to magistrates court and admit the debt and fill in a means form and let the court find what you should pay as it will be less than the bailiff requests as there is a minimum amount they have to leave you to live on.

 

I would in the mean time find out what all the debt are for, to the penny.

 

Hope this helps

 

LFB

[zodiac78]

Thanks for your promp reply yes i feel you are right the higher amount debt we should not worry about as any judge in the land can see she has not the means to pay out right for this and will set a reasonable payment plan.

 

However we still have the problem of of Rossendales Amount outstanding £364.11 and this has a liability order attached to it. They will not accept the amount i know it's minimal £5.00 a week in their words has been rejected. They want £31.00 a week still she has no way to pay this without casing actual hardship to herself and her daughter. They have asked for an expenditure statement which in last letter i explained she could not supply because she was still waiting for benefits to be awarded

 

Thanks for your help

[lets fight bailiffs]

You must send the means form in as it stands right now without the benifit.

 

inform the company and the council that if you are to meet on there terms then they are taking you below the minimum amount set by the goverment and in turn is breaching your human rights.

 

the order that they have is not final if you do not pay now they will apply for a distress order and that will give you the chance to go to the court and put your case accross to a judge and he will then look at a means test and it is my opinion that all council debts should be means tested this way as it is fair.

 

Please do remember NEVER LET THEM IN YOUR HOME.

 

LFB

[zodiac78]

thanks for your sound advice lets fight bailiffs you are great and your imput has been gratefully appreciated with this.

[zodiac78]

Right got a letter back from rossendales re : the letter i sent because they had charge visit 1 and 2 on both accounts.

 

This is what it says

All of our fees are charged in accordance with the council tax blah blah and are clearly outlined on the instruction sheet that was left with the request for instalments form by the first call baliff. We can therfore confirm that all fees on your account have been applied lawfully

 

we can confirm that each of your cases has been issued a separate liability order and consequently we deal with each case individually to avoid any confusion that may arise in the event of a dispute

 

Print Bailiff Manager

unsigned

 

Any help pointing me in right direction for part of council tax administration and enforcement regs that say can't charge both accounts would be very gratefully recieved

[zodiac78]

bump

[hallowitch]

did you actually receive the breakdown of charges or just this letter

[zodiac78]

yes got full screen shot of both accounts they hold, one has recently been paid off but the second hasn't and on both screen shots there are charges visit 1 24.50 and visit 2 18.00. The first visit nobody could off been in because nobody recalls it. The second visit her mum was in and kept the bailiff at the door and he left phone number for step daughter to fone him. They discussed both accounts and rossendales then sent her two letters with the new payment agreements for the accounts. Both letters contain same date.

 

Have subject access request council so hopefully all the rossendales stuff should be in with it and the transcripts for any communication which will hopefully show they did deal with both accounts on same visit or telephone call. Just don't know where in regs it says they can't do this!

 

busy fighting ppi and unreasonable charges with same account at the min so haven't got time to read through the regs

 

So they did not discuss seperate accounts on seperate days as they have stated

 

thanks for looking hallowitch

[zodiac78]

popping out for couple of hours to help my housebound mother in law but will be around this afternoon

[zodiac78]

Council sent paper work for subject access request finally.

They have sent a tenancy agreement has no pen writting on it or signature, not even the address of rented property. So this is not the original

 

there is still no break down of how they got to sum of £9582.87 just an invoice saying

Cost of work £7091.86

Admin £1063.78 ( worked out this 15%)

Vat £1427.24 ( worked out this 17.5%)

ANY help with this admin business would be appreciated personally think that is rip off

I am compiling a letter to get them to comply with subject access request and break this down further because in one internal correspondence the replaced boiler cost £3,000 so where did £7091.86 come from ??????????????

 

The council have shot themselves in the foot really because they took her to court for both accounts before christmas because they were not accepting the £5.00 a week offered until benefits in place. Court ruled £5.00 a week due to earnings. Now unless they reapply once her benefits are in place she doesn't have to pay anymore than that. They said they still went head with court to cover their backs increasing the debt by court charges of £220

 

 

Any help or advice on this would be greatly appreciated

[zodiac78]

forgot to say Rossendales have been the better party in all of this, it's the council that seem to keep putting stumbling blocks in our way