British Military Fitness **warning**

[Marcus_ad]

I went to a BMF intro class i early Sept. I liked it, and signed up then and there with one of their instructors. As bad luck would have it - I couldn't get to another class that month, and as Autumn was approaching I didn't want to do it anyway. I paid for that month because thats what I was told was the commitment.

 

I subsequently noticed a DD went out for September, October and now November!!!!! I have not used their services at all during this period. I called them up and said excuse me - but I think you have been taking my money by accident. I was told in no uncertain terms that I was emailed their Terms and Conditions, which stipulated a 3 month minimum contract AND a months notice for termination - so basically they want my free money for DECEMBER AS WELL!!!!!!!

 

I was not emailed any such thing, and was not told anything other than it was so much money a month when I joined. I am sure there are rules regarding this - if anyone has direct experience of such an episode please let me know.

 

They insist I have seen the T&Cs but I keep all records and I have not.

 

I just want to add that I don't *think* they have been deliberately misleading. However, where there is ambiguity, they have not wasted a heartbeat in telling me I must pay for something I was clearly not informed of.

 

As of 9th November

 

Update.

 

In a rare outbreak of good common sense, the owner of Military Fitness has written to me offering a perfectly rational, polite, sensible settlement. I will not say exactly what that was, but it was a good gesture and very welcome. Something good to shout about for once......

 

Unusual in todays world, but welcome.

Edited November 9, 2009 by Marcus_ad
Update

[BankFodder]

Frankly it seems that this is the kind of way that fitness clubs make a lot of their money.

 

You could challenge them in the courts if you wanted. Report them to Trading standards anyway. There may be other people who complain as well. TS need to know about this kind of thing.

 

If you want to challenge them then start off by sending them an SAR

[Conniff]

At least it is only a 3 month commitment and not 12 like all the civvy gyms people have posted on here.

 

The responsibility to read the terms and conditions are yours and yours alone. I don't think you have any complaint at all.

[Marcus_ad]

@Conniff

 

Did you read what I said ? You clearly did not. You clearly have some blinkered attitude that sent you into a fit of pique, making you say something utterly stupid. You use of the word "civvy" seems to indicate a bias which you should not be proud of as it makes you sound like an idiot. READ WHAT I SAID.

 

I said they HAD NOT told me, or sent me me ANYTHING - let alone a document about a 3 month (actually 4 if you slip up) commitment. Neither was I verbally told this at any point in time.

 

ON TOP OF THAT, it is November 3rd. They also want Decembers money as well - thats FOUR months money FOR NOTHING.

 

If you are saying that its my responsibility to root around the small print hidden somewhere vague in a website then you are wrong - any financial obligation contained within a consumer contract, by law I have found out, must be made CLEAR AND UNAMBIGUOUS at the point of sale.

 

My argument is honestly held - and I repeat, I was not told. If I was told and I chose to ignore then yes fair enough, I owe the money, but I wasn't so I haven't.

 

I respect constructive advice and criticism but please, keep idiotic comments about "civvy street" to youself and read what I say. I know the difference very very well, and this is a "civvy street" operation trading on the good reputation of Armed Services.

 

I would dearly love to hear your argument about how it is my responsibility to pay for something I did not know about, and was not told about....

[Conniff]

I used 'civvy' as I was refering to all the other gyms not connected to the military and 'civvy' is only one word where as there are dozen of gyms which have no connection to the military and would have taken a page on there own.

 

If you hadn't received the T&Cs then you should have asked for them, you knew there were terms and condition to the membership.

 

If you are saying that its my responsibility to root around the small print hidden somewhere vague in a website then you are wrong

 

You don't have to go routing around, the below taken from their site smacks you in the eye and is 'not' small print.

 

If you wish to cancel or suspend your membership and have been with us for 3 full months, simply call or email the office 5 full working days before the end of the month. Please note, we will not consider cancellation after this time. Please read the terms and conditions below

Edited November 3, 2009 by Conniff

[Marcus_ad]

I was told at the point of sale (by the instructor in the park) that it was "so much a month". I reasonably assumed it was a month, and then as long as you keep paying you can keep going. I did not think I was joining an outfit like a big Gym.

 

Fortunately the world does not allow people to sell services like that. I run a service company, and if I give vague allusions as to the terms and conditions, I have absolutely no right to make them up a few months later and take money from peoples account without their express agreement.

 

Again, fortunately, the law acts to protect the unwary or, yes, even stupid consumer from companies that rip such people off. The law assumes that people they work on the basis of reasonable trust. That is why it is up to the provider to make it clear and unambiguous when there is an ongoing financial commitment. Like when I joined a national Gym - they sat me down and went through the paperwork - and repeated several times the cancellation and notice periods. Even THEN the OFT has told them to stop doing it.

 

So, in answer to your point, it is not up to me to search and ask, it is up to the provider to tell me clearly their Terms and Conditions.

 

You do actually have a personal point in that maybe I should have asked more questions, but I took it from the words spoken to me exactly what the commitment was. And you know what - I have actually made some allowance for my part by saying look - you can have Sept and Oct as a gesture of goodwill only, but I want Novembers money back. As for Decembers - well send a squad of troops over, its the only thing that will make me pay that (assuming I don't have a squad of my own!).

 

I keep all T&Cs for anything I buy if they are sent to me. I have no record or recollection of receiving them. I was told they were emailed to me, but I had not received them.

 

I work really hard for my money, and I massively resent people taking it for services I haven't used, or goods I have not consumed. This bulls**t notion that its OK to take my money because somehow you have duped me, misinformed me (by accident or design) or tricked me, or that for some reason on a particular day I did not ask enough or the right questions, or for any other reason actually, makes me feel sick to my stomach.

 

My friend, THAT free money, MY money, will have to be ripped from my cold, dead hand.

 

(I know, its a movie quote, but very apt to the way I feel)

[Conniff]

I assume you have stopped the direct debit.

Did the contract have the terms and conditions on it when you signed? If not, then they won't be able to enforce anything as you never agreed to anything.

[Marcus_ad]

Hi

 

Yes, that got stopped almost as quickly as they told me they would have their hand out for another months money.

 

I signed something, I think, on the day, but I think that was just a Direct Debit form. I don;t recall any contract papers. The sad thing is they were a very friendly outfit on the ground - its just the attitude of their membership people. But that seems to be the case all the time.

 

Gyms are all over the OFT website - there is something called "The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999" which is worth exploring.

[Conniff]

If all you signed was a dd then they have no comeback.

 

You can leave it as it is at the moment and see what happens, but they may pass it on to a debt collecting agency. If they should, then you ask the dca for a copy of the agreement which of course he will not be able to supply, so end of story.

[Marcus_ad]

@conniff

 

Yes I can see what you have taken from their website - however, that is not where i joined from, and I have no idea if the information you have copied was shown in that way when I did join. And actually - reading through those rules I just mentioned, it seems that taking money for nothing - whether its in the T&Cs or not, is unfair.

 

I will be serving them with a DPA notice anyway, and have already written to the OFT directorship responsible for recently berating health clubs doing this. I will be writing to my local trading standards tomorrow.

 

I really do not think I am being unreasonable. Being snared into paying money for extended periods of time for services NOT used simply has to be stamped out. Reading about one particular health club that got stamped on recently by the OFT for doing exactly this, I'm relishing the fight.

 

If a debt is passed onto a debt collecting agency, there is nothing they can do if the debt is in dispute. If they do then they are breaking the law and all sorts of action can be taken against them. They need to learn - this is why websites like this exist so we can share our experiences and act collectively, avoiding being picked off one by one in the dark without any real knowledge of our rights.

[Marcus_ad]

Update.

 

In a rare instance of good common sense, the owner of Military Fitness has written to me offering a perfectly rational, polite, sensible settlement. I will not say exactly what that was, but it was a good gesture and very welcome.

 

Unusual in todays world, but welcome.