Do clampers have to be a member of the BPA

[itstheone]

The reason i ask is my daughter got clamped and the signage and reciept (amongst other things) dont adhere with the BPA code of pratice.

 

If a company doesn't belong to this association is there another code they must adhere to?

 

This is the company

BSG SECURITY LIMITED

 

I've looked on the BPA website and i cant see them on there

 

Any help please as you only get 7 days to lodge an appeal

 

Regards

[My Real Name]

The reason i ask is my daughter got clamped and the signage and reciept (amongst other things) dont adhere with the BPA code of pratice.

 

If a company doesn't belong to this association is there another code they must adhere to?

Have a read of the clamping guide. Some aspects of immobilisaton are governed by The Private Security Industry Act, the rest by case law.

 

The BPA has no authority at all.

 

This is the company

BSG SECURITY LIMITED

 

I've looked on the BPA website and i cant see them on there

 

Any help please as you only get 7 days to lodge an appeal

 

Regards

You don't have 7 days. You have 6 years in which to make a claim in the County Court for any amount paid.

[itstheone]

Hi,

yes i read the clamping guide, and also posted there.

Although the BPA has no authority, it sets guidelines for the clampers to adhere to, so the clampers don't have to stick to these guidelines then?

 

Oh well i'll fire off a letter tomorrow outlining why i think they should pay the money back and then when they refuse i'll come back here to pick some brains for the court case.

 

cheers

[pin1onu]

Hi,

yes i read the clamping guide, and also posted there.

Although the BPA has no authority, it sets guidelines for the clampers to adhere to, so the clampers don't have to stick to these guidelines then?

The BPA only has a voluntary code of practice and is not independent. They have absolutely no power over clampers.

 

The SIA is the primary authority of licensing individuals and firms but are pretty much toothless when it comes to taking action. Other enforcement agencies you can use over various aspects if you think there is a problem with clamping include Trading Standards, the Police and also the courts.

[itstheone]

So all the stuff in the clamping guide about size of signs and what should be on the receipt is pointless then?

 

Damn there goes my appeal!

 

Could you point me to the relevant part of the SIA that deals with clampers.

 

The guy that took the clamp off admitted that he didn't put it on, so how am i meant to find out if the 'clamper' who fitted it holds a frontline license?

[Al27]

Even if a BPA member goes against their guidelines, they won't do anything about it whatsoever.

 

It's merely a marketing tool to enable the [problematic] to put a logo on their threatening paperwork to add the illusion of credence.

 

Any help please as you only get 7 days to lodge an appeal

 

There is no appeals process - as if a clamping firm will refund people. You have 6 years to bring county court action, which is the only way you're going to get your money back. Even then, concentrate on the landowner as the clampers probably have 10 or 20 CCJs as it is.

[londoncass]

My advice would be to get evidence now.... go back with a camera and take some pics of the area and the signs.

 

The PPCs who have bothered to fight court cases have lost because of the signs not being prominent. You'll need photos to help with this one. Also the signs that are there now could change so the sooner the better!

[itstheone]

I took some photos today. one of the signs is behind a stairwell that goes up to some flats, a couple of others are between 90 and 103 inches from ground to bottom of sign. there are none at the entrance and the phone numbers on signs and reciept are mobiles and premium rate numbers.

 

It says in the clamping guidelines one number, especially on the receipt, must be a landline. But then again if there are no guidelines for them to adhere to, what does it matter! I thought the idea of the SIA was to regulate the business, not just the people who clamp.

 

So is there nothing anywhere which says about certain standards the firms must uphold?

[londoncass]

nope .. its pretty unregulated. Read the guide tho, there are two key cases which define some rules. These are mainly that the signs must be viewable and understood and that the charges imposed are reasonable.

[pin1onu]

I took some photos today. one of the signs is behind a stairwell that goes up to some flats, a couple of others are between 90 and 103 inches from ground to bottom of sign. there are none at the entrance and the phone numbers on signs and reciept are mobiles and premium rate numbers.

 

It says in the clamping guidelines one number, especially on the receipt, must be a landline. But then again if there are no guidelines for them to adhere to, what does it matter! I thought the idea of the SIA was to regulate the business, not just the people who clamp.

 

So is there nothing anywhere which says about certain standards the firms must uphold?

You are right there is little formal regulation of the industry. There is no single body that you can take a complaint to. Different breaches are dealt with by different enforcement agencies. These could include the SIA, Trading Standards, the Police and Companies House.

 

Case law (namely Arthur vs Anker and Vine vs LBC Waltham Forrest) largely dictates how the industry is run. Remember that case law is as binding as statute law until statute law is introduced or amended to over-ride it.

 

The PSI act adds some regulation to the industry but falls short of anything really useful. The receipt requirements are listed as conditions of being licensed by the SIA under the PSI Act and regulations (See section 6). The guide quotes from them. You should report any breaches to the SIA. If you can find any breaches it will add weight to any civil case. You can use it to question the business practices in court.

 

You might want to consider looking at the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading regulations 2008 (CPUT). Any potential breaches there should be reported to local trading standards.

 

If you've been threatened when clamped you should make a complaint to the police.

 

With regard to the SIA the whole peice of legislation relating to clamping is a shambles. The powers that be had an opportunity to outlaw clamping permanently. Instead we got yet another un-elected body to regulate some of the people in the industry. There is no question that some undesirables have been prevented from joining the industry because of a criminal record. However the SIA have been remarkably slow to enforce breaches of the act and ususally have only done so when someone else has initiated criminal proceedings (e.g. the police) for some other matter. Largely it is something of a toothless dog.

 

If the company that clamps you is a limited company you might want to check out some of the requirements under the Companies Act, financial status (use webcheck at Companies House). A limited company must include various things (such as registered office address) on any paperwork. Again breaches of any act goes towards the character and conduct of the clamping company in any civil case.

 

As indicated any action you take should be against the landowner and the clamper in conjunction. Before any court action you should attempt to resolve the issue. (Write a letter before action).

[My Real Name]

As indicated any action you take should be against the landowner and the clamper in conjunction.

I don't think that this bit can be stressed enough.

 

Find out who the landowner is, and have them confirm their agency relationship with the clamper.

[itstheone]

I've got the name and address of the landowner, i'm just writing to the clamping company now.

I can't see them volunteering the nature of the relationship between themselves though, so i guess this would be under pre action protocols then?

 

For it to be a valid arrangement would they need to show that the landowner actually receives some money from BSG for damages for trespass?

[londoncass]

you don't need to worry about the arrangement between the two of them at this stage.

 

Write to both with your appeal, then the LBA and then issue court proceedings against both. If the landowner believes that they are not responsbile for their land, the onus will be on them to provide this to the court and you in their reply to defence

[itstheone]

Well i just tried to send a recorded delivery to the address on the receipt, but surprise surprise its just mailboxes. Just about to send it to the registered company address.

[pin1onu]

Well i just tried to send a recorded delivery to the address on the receipt, but surprise surprise its just mailboxes. Just about to send it to the registered company address.

The registered company address is one you should send all correspondence to, especially if you are sueing them. It is a legal requirement (Companies Act) for a Limited Company to have an address to which all correspondence can be sent to.

[itstheone]

I've sent it to the registered company address now, although it still wasn't coming up as BSG on the Post office computer.

 

It was something accountants or associates, couldn't really hear her.

 

I gave them 14 days to reply, although they probably wont, which will look better for me if it goes to court.

 

I'm going to compose a letter over the weekend to the landowners and enclose a copy that i sent to the clampers.

 

John

[pin1onu]

I've sent it to the registered company address now, although it still wasn't coming up as BSG on the Post office computer.

 

It was something accountants or associates, couldn't really hear her.

 

I gave them 14 days to reply, although they probably wont, which will look better for me if it goes to court.

 

I'm going to compose a letter over the weekend to the landowners and enclose a copy that i sent to the clampers.

 

John

If could be they are using their accountants office as the registered address. If this is the case then they are likely to be paying for the privilege.

 

However if it is sent back as "not known at this address" then you should report the company to compliance section of Companies House as they are in breach of the Companies act.

[itstheone]

That'd be a given, if it doesn't go to court i'd like to cause them as much pain as possible.

 

I'm already going to report them regarding breach of the SIA act.

[crem]

I've sent it to the registered company address now, although it still wasn't coming up as BSG on the Post office computer.

 

It was something accountants or associates, couldn't really hear her.

 

I own a Ltd company and also use my accountant's address as my registered office. It is quite common and perfectly legal.

[itstheone]

Thats fine as long as i get a yay or a nay off of them

 

*EDIT*

Why do you use that, don't you want anyone contacting you??

[londoncass]

it took my clampers about a week to collect my appeal from the post office according to the recorded post... When I sent the court papers online to the registered address / accountants they acknowledged the same day they would have received them. The accountants probably faxed them over

[itstheone]

@londoncass

 

You've gone done this route already then? Has it got to court yet?

[crem]

Thats fine as long as i get a yay or a nay off of them

 

*EDIT*

Why do you use that, don't you want anyone contacting you??

 

because it is far easier allowing him to deal with any of the companies house legal bits (which he does for me anyway) rather than me have to worry about whether I have fully complied with business requirements like company name plates on property etc. I do put my home address and phone numbers on letterheads etc which I use as my "operating address" so no, it has nothing to do with hiding from anybody.

[itstheone]

So does that mean they should have had there registered address on the clamp notice or the receipt? It wasnt on either.

[lamma]

The Companies (Trading Disclosures) Regulations 2008 No. 495