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    • They did reply to my defence stating it would fail and enclosed copies of NOA, DN Term letter and account statements. All copies of T&C's that could be reconstructions and the IP address on there resolves to the town where MBNA offices are, not my location
    • My defence was standard no paperwork:   1.The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 2. Paragraph 1 is noted. The Defendant has had a contractual relationship with MBNA Limited in the past. The Defendant does not recognise the reference number provided by the claimant within its particulars and has sought verification from the claimant who is yet to comply with requests for further information. 3. Paragraph 2 is denied. The Defendant maintains that a default notice was never received. The Claimant is put to strict proof to that a default notice was issued by MBNA Limited and received by the Defendant. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied. The Defendant is unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served from either the Claimant or MBNA Limited. 5. On the 02/01/2023 the Defendant requested information pertaining to this claim by way of a CCA 1974 Section 78 request. The claimant is yet to respond to this request. On the 19/05/2023 a CPR 31.14 request was sent to Kearns who is yet to respond. To date, 02/06/2023, no documentation has been received. The claimant remains in default of my section 78 request. 6. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of proof of assignment being sent/ agreement/ balance/ breach or termination requested by CPR 31.14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to: (a) show how the Defendant entered into an agreement; and (b) show and evidence the nature of breach and service of a default notice pursuant to Section 87(1) CCA1974 (c) show how the claimant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim; 7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. 8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974. 9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.
    • Monika the first four pages of the Private parking section have at least 12 of our members who have also been caught out on this scam site. That's around one quarter of all our current complaints. Usually we might expect two current complaints for the same park within 4 pages.  So you are in good company and have done well in appealing to McDonalds in an effort to resolve the matter without having  paid such a bunch of rogues. Most people blindly pay up. Met . Starbucks and McDonalds  are well aware of the situation and seem unwilling to make it easier for motorists to avoid getting caught. For instance, instead of photographing you, if they were honest and wanted you  to continue using their services again, they would have said "Excuse me but if you are going to go to Mc donalds from here, it will cost you £100." But no they kett quiet and are now pursuing you for probably a lot more than £100 now. They also know thst  they cannot charge anything over the amount stated on the car park signs. Their claims for £160 or £170 are unlawful yet so many pay that to avoid going to Court. When the truth is that Met are unlikely to take them to Court since they know they will lose. The PCNs are issued on airport land which is covered by Byelaws so only the driver can be pursued, not the keeper. But they keep writing to you as they do not know who was driving unless you gave it away when you appealed. Even if they know you were driving they should still lose in Court for several reasons. The reason we ask you to fill out our questionnaire is to help you if MET do decide to take you to Court in the end. Each member who visited the park may well have different experiences while there which can help when filling out a Witness statement [we will help you with that if it comes to it.] if you have thrown away the original PCN  and other paperwork you obviously haven't got a jerbil or a guinea pig as their paper makes great litter boxes for them.🙂 You can send an SAR to them to get all the information Met have on you to date. Though if you have been to several sites already, you may have done that by now. In the meantime, you will be being bombarded by illiterate debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors all threatening you with ever increasing amounts as well as being hung drawn and quartered. Their letters can all be safely ignored. On the odd chance that you may get a Letter of Claim from them just come back to us and we will get you to send a snotty letter back to them so that they know you are not happy, don't care a fig for their threats and will see them off in Court if they finally have the guts to carry on. If you do have the original PCN could you please post it up, carefully removing your name. address and car registration number but including dates and times. If not just click on the SAR to take you to the form to send to Met.
    • In order for us to help you we require the following information:- [if there are more than one defendant listed - tell us] 1 defendant   Which Court have you received the claim from ? County Court Business Centre, Northampton   Name of the Claimant ? LC Asset 2 S.A R.L   Date of issue – . 28/04/23   Particulars of Claim   What is the claim for –    (1) The Claimant ('C') claims the whole of the outstanding balance due and payable under an agreement referenced xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and opened effective from xx/xx/2017. The agreement is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 ('CCA'), was signed by the Defendant ('D') and from which credit was extended to D.   (2) D failed to comply with a Default Notice served pursuant to s87 (1) CCA and by xx/xx/2022 a default was recorded.   (3) As at xx/xx/2022 the Defendant owed MBNA LTD the sum of 12,xxx.xx. By an agreement in writing the benefit of the debt has been legally assigned to C effective xx/xx/2022 and made regular upon C serving a Notice of Assignment upon D shortly thereafter.   (4) And C claims- 1. 12,xxx.xx 2. Interest pursuant to Section 69 County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from xx/01/2023 to xx/04/2023 of 2xx.xx and thereafter at a daily rate of 2.52 to date of judgement or sooner payment. Date xx/xx/2023   What is the total value of the claim? 12k   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Yes   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? N/A Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Credit Card   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After   Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Online   Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes, but amount differs slightly   Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. DP issued claim   Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Not that I recall...   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Not that I recall...   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? Yes   Why did you cease payments? Loss of employment main cause   What was the date of your last payment? Early 2021   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No   -----------------------------------
    • Hello CAG Team, I'm adding the contents of the claim to this thread, but wanted to open the thread with an urgent question: Do I have to supply a WS for a claim with a court date that states " at the hearing the court will consider allocation and, time permitting, give an early neutral evaluation of the case" ? letter is an N24 General Form of Judgement or Order, if so, then I've messed up again. Court date 25 May 2024 The letter from court does not state (like the other claims I have) that I must provide WS within 28 days.. BUT I have recently received a WS from Link for it! making me think I do need to!??
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Atos Health Care/postggj Taking Them To Court


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Hi Kelcou, gg, Ruby et al

 

Kelcou, you say ATOS don't understand.

 

With respect to all, will everyone please understand, that, ATOS DO UNDERSTAND! THEY ARE NOT THICK!!

 

The reason why they are passing so many people as fit for work, when clearly those many people are NOT fit for work (Although I suppose everyone IS fit for work! BUT for how many hours, days etc before they collapse or are in excruciating agony) is NOT BECAUSE THEY DONT UNDERSTAND!

 

It is because it is ATOS'S mission to get as many people as possible off benefits, by hook or by "crook"! (Nice double' entandre' re "crook":D).

 

As I have said elsewhere, if we had only a head, with no limbs or torso, ATOS would say we are fit to work as a bowling ball in a ten pin bowling alley!!!:)

 

Re the litigation, has anyone found any info re cases being taken further after the BBC documentary in 2006 which showed medical reports being falsified, resulting in claimants being taken off benefit.

 

Good luck to all!

 

Coogaah

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DURING MY DIRT DIGGING ON ATTOS I CAME ACROSS THIS.

 

 

AFTER YOUR CONSULTATION, ALL THE NOTES ARE FED INTO A COMPUTER PROGRAM CALLED

 

LIMA SOFTWARE

 

That stands for

 

LOGIC INTERGRATED MEDICAL ASSESMANT.

 

 

NOW THAT’S OVER WITH, MY QUESTION

 

TRYING TO GET ATTOS TO CONFIRM THE MEDICAL QUALIFICATIONS ON ITS AGENT

 

CAN A REQUEST BE MADE UNDER CPR, AND IF SO, WHICH ONE, FOR THE RELEASE OF THAT INFO

Edited by ErikaPNP
please refer to section 3.12 of the forum rules
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Thank you for your Freedom of Information request received on 2009. You asked for:-

 

A downloadable copy of the LiMA Software

 

Logic Integrated Medical Assessment (LiMA) software only functions as an interactive process during an assessment, it has no independent function and is designed to run on Atos Healthcare networked based PCs not standalone PCs. Furthermore we have decided not to release specific technical data relating to LiMA software for the following reasons.

 

Reasons for claiming exemption

 

We consider the information exempt from disclosure under section 43 (2) of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (the “Act”). This is because, in our opinion, the disclosure of the information under the Act would, or would be likely to, prejudice the commercial interests of both DWP and a third party licensee of DWP.

 

In this regard, we can tell you that DWP holds copyright, the intellectual property rights and has licensed a third party to use, customise, distribute, incorporate, market, maintain, support, sell and sub-license LiMA (and other software) in return for payment of a royalty to DWP. In that licence, DWP confirms that it will not, in effect, allow any other party similar rights.

 

The LiMA software program is not only integral to the conduct of DWP business, it also represents a significant commercial interest to the DWP. Therefore we decline to provide the software, any technical or other information that would enable full or partial reproduction of the LiMA system.

 

While we acknowledge that, if supplied to you, the information would continue to be protected by the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 (which would prohibit certain commercial re-use of the information by you) we have, after full consideration, reached the conclusion that the likelihood of prejudice to our commercial interests, and those of our licensee, remains. The information has inherent commercial value in terms of the business methods it reflects and the concepts it employs, neither of which is adequately protected by the terms of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act.

 

To place this information in the public domain would undermine the basis of the arrangement reached by DWP with its licensee, as it would threaten the uniqueness of the information upon which assessments of commercial risk and return have been made and in relation to which commercial positions have been adopted and acted upon by the parties. We also consider that release of the information would be likely to place DWP at a significant disadvantage in seeking to secure similar licensing arrangements with third parties in the future.

 

In applying the exemption under section 43 (2) of the Act, we have considered whether, in all the circumstances of the case, the public interest in maintaining the exemption outweighs the public interest in disclosing the information. We have concluded that it does. We have reached this conclusion because, in our view, the public interest in understanding how the LiMA system works, and in being assured that the LiMA system properly reflects and supports the identification and assessment of benefit entitlements, can be met by a non-technical description of the system, and the role it is intended to play in the decision making process.

 

We are also mindful of the fact that any public concerns about the integrity of LiMA can be met and fully addressed through due process of the benefit system itself, which contains rights of review and appeal covering both the DWP’s decision on entitlement to benefit, and the process by which that decision is arrived at. Conversely, we do not believe that the public interest would be served by creating an environment, which adversely impacts the public sector’s ability to obtain a secondary benefit from its investment in information systems.

 

Were the public sector to release, under the Act, commercially valuable information such as that inherent in the LiMA system, the public sector would find it difficult to engage the expertise of commercial licensees (an expertise the public sector does not have) in deriving latent value from its information systems, to the detriment of the general taxpayer who would be deprived of the royalty revenue which might otherwise be realisable. For these reasons, we believe that it is right to maintain the exemption in relation to the specific information you seek.

 

If you have any queries about this letter please contact me quoting the reference number above.

 

 

Comments anyone?

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If you are having a medical with ATOS can you refuse the appointment unless you are seen by a qualified doctor? I got the form the other day to complete and it says it needs to be back with them by the 7th January 2008 by which time I should be signing on for JSA hopefully. If not, guess it will be a medical. probably go to DIAL for help in completing the form. Never done this before. The joke is that I can only do clerical work and then for only brief spells but there is no work out there anyway for a 60 year with a disability so claiming JSA © is going to be no diffeent except for signing on!

Go get them as I am sure you will get loads of support from this forum.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Just Updating

Still Going Through The Court With This

 

Ime Just Back Home After The Third Operation On My Knee.

 

Thats The One Atos In There Report To My Boss Stated

 

i Was Exagerating My Condition And Recomend I Go Back To Full Time Duties

 

Muppetts

 

I Realy Feel For All You With Dla Claims Being Decided By This Atos

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Hi Postggj

 

Nice to see you are staying strong.

 

Your posting gave me a good laugh - the bit about Atos stating you're exaggerating etc etc! It is almost exactly what they said about me, then after their falsified pack of lies medical report (Which they have admitted to) I was diagnosed by "proper" doctors (consultants etc) that I needed further operations and also I had further problems - with prolapsed vertebrae and impinged nerves in neck which are causing even more problems.

 

Nice to see "At arse (Atos)" are so consistent with their falsifications!

 

Hope you recover well and good luck with your case.

 

Merry Christmas to all and the best of luck for the new year and beyond.

 

Coogaah

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Hi Kurvaface

 

All That Happened Was An Appointment Was Done For This Atos Rep To Come To My Place Of Work For A Medical.

Did The Dctor Thing And Went Away.

 

Then I Got That Defamatory Report Sent To My Boss With Out My Consent Under The Dpa Saying I Was Putting It All On.

 

They Made No Contact With My Gp Or Hospital.

 

Ive Found Out That This PErson Has No Medical Qualifications.

 

What Atos Do Is Put All The Notes Into A Computer Program. Its Called

 

Lima

 

Logic Investigation Medical Assesment

 

Its A Virtual Doctor

 

Its The Same Ref The Goverment And Dla Claims

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This is no way to conduct a medical examiniation.

 

Without the relevant clinical history and diagnostic reports it would have been very very easy for this "OT" to worsen your condition. EG - you had a medial meniscus rupture and then this dummy is getting you to flex your leg, twist and load it. Even an experienced clinician would approach this with caution and most certainly would not produce a definitive conclusion about your condition without x-rays or possibly MRI / exploratory arthroscopy, and as for the OT giving such a certain view of your working capability - I'm gobsmacked.

 

I find it very disturbing that your employer could / would expose you to this kind of risk and harm.

 

I think it would be worth exploring how this could be reported to the GMC because it is completely contradictory to good health care.

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a letter from the DWP medical services contract management team government buildings spur B 1 Cop lane Pensworth Preston PR1 0SA

 

It goes down similar lines but has more information.

 

Logic Integrated Medical Assessment (LiMA) software only functions as an interactive process during an assessment, it has no independent function and is designed to run on Atos Healthcare networked based PCs not standalone PCs. Furthermore we have decided not to release specific technical data relating to LiMA software for the following reasons.

 

Reasons for claiming exemption

 

We consider the information exempt from disclosure under section 43 (2) of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (the “Act”). This is because, in our opinion, the disclosure of the information under the Act would, or would be likely to, prejudice the commercial interests of both DWP and a third party licensee of DWP.

 

In this regard, we can tell you that DWP holds copyright, the intellectual property rights and has licensed a third party to use, customise, distribute, incorporate, market, maintain, support, sell and sub-license LiMA (and other software) in return for payment of a royalty to DWP. In that licence, DWP confirms that it will not, in effect, allow any other party similar rights.

 

The LiMA software program is not only integral to the conduct of DWP business, it also represents a significant commercial interest to the DWP. Therefore we decline to provide the software, any technical or other information that would enable full or partial reproduction of the LiMA system.

 

While we acknowledge that, if supplied to you, the information would continue to be protected by the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 (which would prohibit certain commercial re-use of the information by you) we have, after full consideration, reached the conclusion that the likelihood of prejudice to our commercial interests, and those of our licensee, remains. The information has inherent commercial value in terms of the business methods it reflects and the concepts it employs, neither of which is adequately protected by the terms of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act.

 

To place this information in the public domain would undermine the basis of the arrangement reached by DWP with its licensee, as it would threaten the uniqueness of the information upon which assessments of commercial risk and return have been made and in relation to which commercial positions have been adopted and acted upon by the parties. We also consider that release of the information would be likely to place DWP at a significant disadvantage in seeking to secure similar licensing arrangements with third parties in the future.

 

In applying the exemption under section 43 (2) of the Act, we have considered whether, in all the circumstances of the case, the public interest in maintaining the exemption outweighs the public interest in disclosing the information. We have concluded that it does. We have reached this conclusion because, in our view, the public interest in understanding how the LiMA system works, and in being assured that the LiMA system properly reflects and supports the identification and assessment of benefit entitlements, can be met by a non-technical description of the system, and the role it is intended to play in the decision making process.

 

We are also mindful of the fact that any public concerns about the integrity of LiMA can be met and fully addressed through due process of the benefit system itself, which contains rights of review and appeal covering both the DWP’s decision on entitlement to benefit, and the process by which that decision is arrived at. Conversely, we do not believe that the public interest would be served by creating an environment, which adversely impacts the public sector’s ability to obtain a secondary benefit from its investment in information systems.

 

Were the public sector to release, under the Act, commercially valuable information such as that inherent in the LiMA system, the public sector would find it difficult to engage the expertise of commercial licensees (an expertise the public sector does not have) in deriving latent value from its information systems, to the detriment of the general taxpayer who would be deprived of the royalty revenue which might otherwise be realisable. For these reasons, we believe that it is right to maintain the exemption in relation to the specific information you seek.

 

The questions and options built into LiMA proggramme are exactly the same as those in the clerical form IB85 incapacity for work medical report form. This form was designed by the department of works and pensions.

 

The assisted text phrases that may be used to construct the medical history were drawn from many sources including the Incapacity benefit handbook medical text brooks examples of high quality personal capability assessment report and discussions with experienced healthcare professionals. They have been quality assured by panels of experienced HCPs and deemed appropriate for constructing good quality relevant clinical and functional histories and were agreed in construction with the DWP health and benefits division (formerly corporate medical; group)

 

The clinical examination results are structured according to the findings of evidence based medical research carried out by Atos Healthcare to determine the functional consequences of specific clinical signs. In other words the HCPs are expected to carry out a functional assessment of the affected systems not necessarily to carry out a full diagnostic clinical examination. This was agreed in consultation with the DWP health and benefits division.

 

LiMA provides health care professionals with a system of data entry that minimizes typing. This is known as assisted text control and allows information to be quickly and easily added to a report. Standard phrases consist of sentences that users can customise by altering variables. Their use is never mandated and the option of FREE TEXT is always available. Therefore the report that is produced should always be an accurate reflection of assessment.

 

To provide and example the phrase ' the condition started several months ago' is constructed by LiMA systems as Follows:

 

The user is presented with the standard phrase THE CONDITION STARTED the system will then prompt the user to select the appropriate option i.e. A FEW, SEVERAL, MANY or SINCE AGE or FROM BIRTH if the yser has selected FEW, SEVERAL, MANY the system will then prompt the user to select the appropriate option i.e. DAYS,WEEKS,MONTHS,YEARS

 

THere are an enormous number of customisable phrases in LiMA which are regularly updated, these are an integral part of the IT system and no seperate list is available, however as outlined above there are no constraints placed on the approved healthcare proffessional as to what information is recorded or how.

 

The system utilizes evidence based medical protocols which contain up to date medical knowledge relating to medical assessment techniques and in the assessment effects of medical conditions. Emphasis is always placed on the differing circumstances of each individual customer and the HCPs are required to justify their medical opinion contained on the medical report. This has contributed to an improvement in the quality and consistency of medical advice provided by approved he

althcare professionals. It also solves any potential problem of legibility of the medical report.

 

It then states I have the right to complain under the data protection act.

 

all I can say is B*LL S*** as usual!!!!

 

I can also advise that the Tribunal Judge has also ruled no access to the software.

 

1) The tribunal does not consider it appropriate to make a direction for the respondent to produce a working copy of the LiMA software used in thye creation of the IB85 report form. Such a direction would be oppressive, and out of proportion to the issues involved in the appeal. The First Tier Tribunal is in my view not the appropriate forum for a challenge of this nature.

 

2) The first tier tribunal will assess the evidence available to it . The IB85 report will be assessed in the usual way, and the appellants arguments will be taken into account.

 

Now that we have a reply to the letter of the B&W site is worth still having the letter available for download if there is no way the DWP will allow a copy of the software to be given???? As people are not going to get anywhere with this letter? If any of the benefit and works team would like copies of these letters please PM with an email address and I will scan them and forward them to you.

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what atos do here in the uk was outlawed in several states in america they are bannedin several states as well

atos i have volumes right down to the parent co phillips electronics andsupprise supprise even experian and a major uk insurance company are part of them hence information out by the back door big brother undercover stuff huh

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GMC | Making a complaint

 

Any Doctor that has been involved with signing off on ATOS' behalf in your case should be reported to the GMC.

 

Your case is a clear example of where they are doing "Harm" and for this reason you have an obligation to the rest of us to make sure this is reported. Not only is what they are doing potentially dangerous, it seems to be completely unethical.

 

If no Doctor is signing off their reports this needs to be investigated.

 

If they rely on this LIMA to spit out reports then this needs to be investigated too.

 

The GMC will invstigate.

Edited by kurvaface
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The GMC is a good starting point.

 

ATOS are dispensing advice to various organisations based on the flimsiest of pseudomedical opinion. Because of the possible / probable harm resulting from this I would be suprised if the GMC didn't get involved.

 

The thing I don't understand is whether there are Doctors involved in the "ATOS" process, or is it just monkeys in-putting data to LIMA.

 

Either way, there is something for the GMC to get its teeth into.

 

BTW, what was the problem with your knee?

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The Lateral Retinaculum is the fibrous outerside of your knee joint and is integral to its stability and function. Sounds like you may have torn it.

 

There is no possible way that the "OT"s as they call them in conjunction with a piece of software could determine what this injury was, its severity or prognosis under any working conditions.

 

I would have deep concerns about any doctor signing off on this kind of evaluation and if there is no doctor involved in the evaluation process, the results can only be meaningless.

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